Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)

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Khalan

Khalan

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Yeah, even though I got some lovely negs for "defending" it, I actually do think it was super flimsy, didn't ruin the movie for me but def wish it was either better explained or done differently. It just doesnt feel consistent with what we know about the force from the canon, but at the end of the day we will hopefully get a better explanation in Ep8 of wtf is going on.
 
Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey

Karen
6,722
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kegkilla_sl said:
i enjoyed the movie shithead, never said i didn't. i'll see the next one no problem. i'm simply pointing out the gaping flaws with the movie's storytelling.
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yet it's still making you angry enough that you've been posting in here for days like you've got broken glass in your cunt
 
The Edge

The Edge

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Blakkheim

Blakkheim

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HUH_sl said:
When did wanting great action scenes in an action adventure movie become so crazy? Why can't there be great action scenes in all the movies? When did they're saving the good shit for sequels become a reasonable excuse for flaws in a movie? I don't' want more overly choreographed dance sequences like the Phantom Menace. There's been dozens of fantastic action films in the last few years with great memorable scenes, I just want some of that in the Star Wars universe.
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Is it actual flaws in the movie? Or is it just your personal preference? What kind of action sequence are you looking for in this context? Should we be presented with a Matrix style slow-mo fight where Rey and Kylo are doing back spin moves while dodging laser blasts and lightsabers? Or should we see a Marvel comics style scene where Rey and Kylo throw each other up in the air and smash each other into the sides of buildings? I honestly have no idea what you are looking for and I doubt you do either. The lightsaber/action scene that was in the movie fit the characters and the narrative of the movie.

When I mentioned ESB, you sort of seemed to indicate the lightsaber fight between two un-equal foes was ok because "there were other things going on". Yet for this movie, apparently you can't grasp anything else is going on and you just want to see some crazy ass over the top meaningless action sequence.
 
kegkilla

kegkilla

The Big Mod
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here's how the ending should have went down:

- Rey pulls her blaster and gets force tossed
- Finn squares off against Kylo, who is mocking him explicitly, Kylo gets bored and force tosses Finn into a tree, looks to be knocked out.
- scene where Rey force grabs the saber from Kylo
- Rey being completely overpowered, Kylo mocking and laughing at her, shit looks bad, she channels the force
- Rey mounts a comeback, inflicts a minor wound on Kylo
- Kylo's demeanor changes. now he's fucking livid.
- Kylo and Rey about to square off again.
- shot of Finn coming to.
- Kylo saying some hardcore shit to Rey, like he went easy on Solo but he's going to make her suffer.
- Finn saying some cool shit, like this is for Han you fatty loving faggot, then throws grenade at Kylo.
- Kylo detects it at the last second and tries to force push it away, but still takes some of the blast.
- Kylo gets back to his feet though he's clearly pretty fucked up at this point, sees the Millenium falcon coming and decides to bounce.

this accomplishes a few things:
- Finn actually useful for something instead of just being 3/5 a stormtrooper
- Kylo is still an interesting villain
- Rey still gets her princess moment
- Han's death is actually called back to instead of being forgotten seconds after he's dead
- People aren't taking direct hits from lightsabers and not being disfigured for some dumb reason


that's how it's done boys.
 
Ukerric

Ukerric

Bearded Ape
<Silver Donator>
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Merrith_sl said:
they spent the entire movie portraying him as a Vader tryhard prone to temper tantrums.
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That's what he his. Hux has not the slightest respect for him, even the two stormtroopers we see turning back are obviously doing an "oh, shit, he's doing it again" moment. Everyone is only tolerating him because he's Snoke's pet jedi.
HUH_sl said:
like space bandits or something? Maybe they could have taken part in the raid of Hans ship? Think of how crazy that could be if they were apart of an action scene.
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The problem with the pirates in Han's ship is that they have absolutely no purpose save to force Rey into releasing the tentacle monsters so that they chase our heroes. They show up, speak their lines, then immediately get gobbled because the space monsters chase is Now and they're in the way.

Besides, it's not The Expendables VII
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Blakkheim_sl said:
The lightsaber/action scene that was in the movie fit the characters and the narrative of the movie.
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But it's not correctly shot/resolved.

The way it is supposed to happen, and should be reflected on screen is thus:

- Rey mindgrabs the Lightsaber; Kylo recognises her (bit that's not obvious; we - as spectators - recognise her as a fated one at that point, but we don't see enough recognition from Kylo. I admit it's hard to suggest. The novel says it better)
- They exchange blows, with Rey being toyed with (which is what actually happens in the movie, she's force to retreat and is completely on defensive)
- Kylo taunts and tries to tempt her (which is what happens)
- She becomes flush with anger AND STARTS CHANNELING THE DARK SIDE (and that's what happens, she's whacking and smacking in anger, but again it's not well visible)
- And as she's in danger of succumbing to the Dark Side (because no training), the ground opens up, the battle is interrupted before she can go Dark and she gets time to recover from the (non-)metaphorical chasm she was going to plunge into, and it's a "see you next time" as the combatants are separated with no resolution. "We'll face again, mark my words!".

And that's the last bit that's badly handled. You can see that's what was intended and why the chasm appears, but it's not good enough, and people are left wondering how she could even stand to Kylo (he wants his own apprentice "now that's he's become the master", she's more powerful at the raw Force, and she was going to the easy way of winning). And it all makes better sense, better setup... but the whole sequence ends up flawed, because apparently too many people are missing it.
 
Royal

Royal

Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures
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Ukerric_sl said:
But it's not correctly shot/resolved.

The way it is supposed to happen, and should be reflected on screen is thus:

- Rey mindgrabs the Lightsaber; Kylo recognises her (bit that's not obvious; we - as spectators - recognise her as a fated one at that point, but we don't see enough recognition from Kylo. I admit it's hard to suggest. The novel says it better)
- They exchange blows, with Rey being toyed with (which is what actually happens in the movie, she's force to retreat and is completely on defensive)
- Kylo taunts and tries to tempt her (which is what happens)
- She becomes flush with anger AND STARTS CHANNELING THE DARK SIDE (and that's what happens, she's whacking and smacking in anger, but again it's not well visible)
- And as she's in danger of succumbing to the Dark Side (because no training), the ground opens up, the battle is interrupted before she can go Dark and she gets time to recover from the (non-)metaphorical chasm she was going to plunge into, and it's a "see you next time" as the combatants are separated with no resolution. "We'll face again, mark my words!".

And that's the last bit that's badly handled. You can see that's what was intended and why the chasm appears, but it's not good enough, and people are left wondering how she could even stand to Kylo (he wants his own apprentice "now that's he's become the master", she's more powerful at the raw Force, and she was going to the easy way of winning). And it all makes better sense, better setup... but the whole sequence ends up flawed, because apparently too many people are missing it.
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Spot on. This goes back to what I said a few days ago about there being more subtlety and nuance in this than we're used to seeing from a SW title. Some of it needed to be a little more obvious or have some additional ques to call attention to what ended up largely internalized.
 
H

HUH_sl

shitlord
318
0
Blakkheim_sl said:
Is it actual flaws in the movie? Or is it just your personal preference? What kind of action sequence are you looking for in this context? Should we be presented with a Matrix style slow-mo fight where Rey and Kylo are doing back spin moves while dodging laser blasts and lightsabers? Or should we see a Marvel comics style scene where Rey and Kylo throw each other up in the air and smash each other into the sides of buildings? I honestly have no idea what you are looking for and I doubt you do either. The lightsaber/action scene that was in the movie fit the characters and the narrative of the movie.

When I mentioned ESB, you sort of seemed to indicate the lightsaber fight between two un-equal foes was ok because "there were other things going on". Yet for this movie, apparently you can't grasp anything else is going on and you just want to see some crazy ass over the top meaningless action sequence.
Click to expand...
Why did ESB get a pass? Maybe the actual fight shouldn't, maybe it sucked for it's time. Honestly I don't even remember it but I do remember what it directly led to. And that's what I meant when I said it had other things going on.

And the problems with the fight is the choreography, it wasn't imaginative, there were no memorable sequences of attacks, no cool camera shots. I don't want spinning ninja jedi, I don't want shitty CG doubles. I just want great grounded action that is realistic for the characters, I want characters that fight with personality. I want the feeling I had after watching a fight scene from the Raid. I want to think fuck that was great not oh isn't' that giant crevice convenient.

Not to say that the action in TFW was horrible. It just wasn't great, it was forgettable.

I would have loved for their to be a bigger emotional competent in the fight, that would have made the weak choreography much easier to forgive. It was there a little bit with Kylo. When he kept hitting his injured side, when he was toying with Finn. I would have loved for them to delve deeper into his emotional state, show us the conflict he had been battling the entire movie and how killing his father was affecting him. I would have loved for him to have a stronger showing because as much as I like the character he is kind of ruined as a villain for me.

Rey didn't have enough character development for me to give a shit about her. I liked her character but that was mainly because I found the actress charismatic and not on the strength of the character. She barely knew Han so I didn't buy that she had much emotionally at stake during the fight other than her own and maybe Finn's survival. She gets her big 'heroric turn around' you know that moment when Van Damn gets sand thrown into his eyes and remembers back to his training, or the hero is almost dead but remembers a loved one and gets a second wind. Rey gets that, but we know so little about her past there's nothing for us to call back on, instead its a 20 second shot of her eyes closed then she beats Kylo up. It just didn't work for me.

People say she uses the dark side? Maybe I missed it cause that didn't come across to me at all. If that was the intention the they shouldn't have done more with it.

Maybe for whatever reason you had an emotional connection with the characters that I simply didn't have. If I did I probably would have enjoyed the fight a lot more. What I got was Kylo kicks Finn's ass. Kylo kicks Rey's ass. Rey thinks about the force for 20 seconds. Rey kicks Kylo's ass.
 
Jozu

Jozu

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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kegkilla_sl said:
here's how the ending should have went down:

- Rey pulls her blaster and gets force tossed
- Finn squares off against Kylo, who is mocking him explicitly, Kylo gets bored and force tosses Finn into a tree, looks to be knocked out.
- scene where Rey force grabs the saber from Kylo
- Rey being completely overpowered, Kylo mocking and laughing at her, shit looks bad, she channels the force
- Rey mounts a comeback, inflicts a minor wound on Kylo
- Kylo's demeanor changes. now he's fucking livid.
- Kylo and Rey about to square off again.
- shot of Finn coming to.
- Kylo saying some hardcore shit to Rey, like he went easy on Solo but he's going to make her suffer.
- Finn saying some cool shit, like this is for Han you fatty loving faggot, then throws grenade at Kylo.
- Kylo detects it at the last second and tries to force push it away, but still takes some of the blast.
- Kylo gets back to his feet though he's clearly pretty fucked up at this point, sees the Millenium falcon coming and decides to bounce.

this accomplishes a few things:
- Finn actually useful for something instead of just being 3/5 a stormtrooper
- Kylo is still an interesting villain
- Rey still gets her princess moment
- Han's death is actually called back to instead of being forgotten seconds after he's dead
- People aren't taking direct hits from lightsabers and not being disfigured for some dumb reason


that's how it's done boys.
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lol.

fucking nades.

Also, I kind of buy into Rey had a legendary drop, which clearly made her superior to Kylo in that fight once the force flowed through her. His shit saber was a beginners weapon and he got owned accordingly.

edit: Kylos face is actually disfigured I believe.
 
Royal

Royal

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HUH_sl said:
She barely knew Han so I didn't buy that she had much emotionally at stake during the fight other than her own and maybe Finn's survival.
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They did a good job in the very beginning of the movie showing how isolated and lonely her existence was. That moment at the washing stand when she started to reach out in friendship to the old woman all by itself showed she had a hunger for human companionship. If you couldn't understand how she would latch on so quickly to Han (as a father figure) and Finn (as a friend) then I really dunno what to tell ya.

They could have made some of the things going on with the participants a little clearer but I'm glad they didn't spoon feed it to us to the extent that you apparently need or want.
 
Famm

Famm

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Royal_sl said:
That moment at the washing stand when she started to reach out in friendship to the old woman all by itself showed she had a hunger for human companionship.
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Pretty sure that was supposed to be a moment of recognition for her about where her life was heading on Jakku. She saw that old woman as her future, it was doubt and despair about potentially being stuck there forever with her family never coming back for her like she was expecting. She didn't even actually try to talk to her did she? She was just staring at her until being interrupted/startled by the alien dude.

Your points about attachment to Han are otherwise valid.
 
slippery

slippery

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They could have just in some short 1-2 second flashbacks during the lightsaber fight of Luke fighting Vader and going the exact same moves with it.

No one would be complaining about how Rey is fighting, and everyone would be shitting themselves over it.
 
Shonuff

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
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I'm going to see this again today, and I'm really not looking forward to the death of Han Solo. The other choices, I'm fine with. But I've been in a bad mood for two weeks over it.
 
Blakkheim

Blakkheim

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HUH_sl said:
Why did ESB get a pass? Maybe the actual fight shouldn't, maybe it sucked for it's time. Honestly I don't even remember it but I do remember what it directly led to. And that's what I meant when I said it had other things going on.

And the problems with the fight is the choreography, it wasn't imaginative, there were no memorable sequences of attacks, no cool camera shots. I don't want spinning ninja jedi, I don't want shitty CG doubles. I just want great grounded action that is realistic for the characters, I want characters that fight with personality. I want the feeling I had after watching a fight scene from the Raid. I want to think fuck that was great not oh isn't' that giant crevice convenient.

Not to say that the action in TFW was horrible. It just wasn't great, it was forgettable.

I would have loved for their to be a bigger emotional competent in the fight, that would have made the weak choreography much easier to forgive. It was there a little bit with Kylo. When he kept hitting his injured side, when he was toying with Finn. I would have loved for them to delve deeper into his emotional state, show us the conflict he had been battling the entire movie and how killing his father was affecting him. I would have loved for him to have a stronger showing because as much as I like the character he is kind of ruined as a villain for me.

Rey didn't have enough character development for me to give a shit about her. I liked her character but that was mainly because I found the actress charismatic and not on the strength of the character. She barely knew Han so I didn't buy that she had much emotionally at stake during the fight other than her own and maybe Finn's survival. She gets her big 'heroric turn around' you know that moment when Van Damn gets sand thrown into his eyes and remembers back to his training, or the hero is almost dead but remembers a loved one and gets a second wind. Rey gets that, but we know so little about her past there's nothing for us to call back on, instead its a 20 second shot of her eyes closed then she beats Kylo up. It just didn't work for me.

People say she uses the dark side? Maybe I missed it cause that didn't come across to me at all. If that was the intention the they shouldn't have done more with it.

Maybe for whatever reason you had an emotional connection with the characters that I simply didn't have. If I did I probably would have enjoyed the fight a lot more. What I got was Kylo kicks Finn's ass. Kylo kicks Rey's ass. Rey thinks about the force for 20 seconds. Rey kicks Kylo's ass.
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So basically as I mentioned: What you are describing are just your personal tastes and preferences on what you would have like to see in a certain scene. These are hardly "flaws" in the movie. I would considers flaws to be things like obvious plot holes where when things happen that are illogical or don't fit with the story or fit into the Star Wars Universe. A hundred people can watch the same fight scene and you will get a hundred different opinions about how good or memorable it was. Debating personal preferences about camera angles, dialog, and moves used in the fight is just pointless. Whatever.
 
Palum

Palum

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So, I hate to be 'that guy', but why wouldn't they just lure Kylo off the bridge and barrage him with blasters on stun like ANH?
 
Jive Turkey

Jive Turkey

Karen
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Ukerric_sl said:
The problem with the pirates in Han's ship is that they have absolutely no purpose save to force Rey into releasing the tentacle monsters so that they chase our heroes. They show up, speak their lines, then immediately get gobbled because the space monsters chase is Now and they're in the way.
Click to expand...
I've heard that there were extended sequences in this scene that got cut. Its the only part of the movie that felt tacked on. And the creature design was kind of weak
 
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