Star Wars: The Force Awakens (2015)

Pioneer89_sl said:

You don't see a difference between how Luke was able to use the force in Ep. 5-6 and how all of the Jedi were trained in Ep. 1-3, including Anakin?

My case is: JJ is pushing the force (kek) to be much more unexplainable magic, where Lucas made it into a virus.

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No, all I see is your misunderstanding of facts.

Gosh it's weird how absolutely nothing that happened in 1-3 was referenced, but plenty of key characters and events from 4-6 were. It's almost as if the first 3 films were intentionally ignored for this movie.

Because they were fucking terrible and everyone knows that.

The Ancient_sl said:

Gosh it's weird how absolutely nothing that happened in 1-3 was referenced, but plenty of key characters and events from 4-6 were. It's almost as if the first 3 films were intentionally ignored for this movie.

Because they were fucking terrible and everyone knows that.

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How relevant would that stuff actually be to these people, some 80+ years after the beginning of Episode I? Just off the top of my head, there was a reference to Clone Troopers, the flags outside of Maz's bar were taken from the pod races on Tatooine, specifically those of Anakin and Sebulba, and the Sith are referenced in TFA. A title which never came up in the OT but was heavily used in the prequels. You're reaching man. There's a reason why this is Episode VII...

Must resist the urge to agree...

But I cannot disagree RE: the clone troopers line, something not discussed at all during 4-6.

Obi-wan references the clone wars in 4...

Vader was called Dark Lord of the Sith back during the OT though not in the movies themselves.

Foggy_sl said:

Obi-wan references the clone wars in 4...

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Yes but that one line created the entire backstory boondoggle which drove the prequels. The stormtroopers were never 'clones' until they didn't know how to show Jedi decapitating people with lightsabers in a PG(-13) movie without it being robots on the enemy side.

Palum_sl said:

Yes but that one line created the entire backstory boondoggle which drove the prequels. The stormtroopers were never 'clones' until they didn't know how to show Jedi decapitating people with lightsabers in a PG(-13) movie without it being robots on the enemy side.

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That's why they made them clones? That makes no sense. It's no different than decapitating identical twins

The Edge_sl said:

How relevant would that stuff actually be to these people, some 80+ years after the beginning of Episode I? Just off the top of my head, there was a reference to Clone Troopers, the flags outside of Maz's bar were taken from the pod races on Tatooine, specifically those of Anakin and Sebulba, and the Sith are referenced in TFA. A title which never came up in the OT but was heavily used in the prequels. You're reaching man. There's a reason why this is Episode VII...

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The flags have little winks and nods to all sorts of references, not just the podracers.


I'll tell you what, if midichlorians are ever mentioned in Episode 8 or 9, I'll mail you $50

Foggy_sl said:

Obi-wan references the clone wars in 4...

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Clone wars NOT clone troopers.
The prequels are so memorable, that "important" characters like quigon booze or mace l jackson are not even mentioned. Not even with the special editions by Lucas.

Jive Turkey_sl said:

That's why they made them clones? That makes no sense. It's no different than decapitating identical twins

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No, as in Georgey Boy wanted to show millions of lightsabers flailing around cutting people to pieces because... reasons and the only way to do that was have them killing robots if they wanted to keep it PG or PG-13. Since Obi-Wan says 'clone wars' in one line in EP4, they had to make it about clones somehow, so with the enemy side locked in as robots that meant the Republic had to use clones. It's like poetry, so that it rhymes, you know?

Palum_sl said:

No, as in Georgey Boy wanted to show millions of lightsabers flailing around cutting people to pieces because... reasons and the only way to do that was have them killing robots if they wanted to keep it PG or PG-13. Since Obi-Wan says 'clone wars' in one line in EP4, they had to make it about clones somehow, so with the enemy side locked in as robots that meant the Republic had to use clones. It's like poetry, so that it rhymes, you know?

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Oh, I'm a doorknob. I forgot the clones were on the goodguy side to begin with

The very first line of dialog in TFA is a wink to the prequels. Or maybe the stink eye would be a better term for it.

If you want to talk about narrative destroying plot holes, how about the one where the Jedi in the prequels decide to train a kid with off-the-chart force potential to "bring balance" to the force... balance in a universe where there only seems to be Jedi running around and no Sith. What balance were they talking about exactly?
As usual, it's a line George wrote because he thought it sounded cool without giving a second thought to what it actually meant. And in the process made the Jedi council out to be a collection of retards

Jive Turkey_sl said:

If you want to talk about narrative destroying plot holes, how about the one where the Jedi in the prequels decide to train a kid with off-the-chart force potential to "bring balance" to the force... balance in a universe where there only seems to be Jedi running around and no Sith. What balance were they talking about exactly?

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Indeed they were awful.

Jive Turkey_sl said:

If you want to talk about narrative destroying plot holes, how about the one where the Jedi in the prequels decide to train a kid with off-the-chart force potential to "bring balance" to the force... balance in a universe where there only seems to be Jedi running around and no Sith. What balance were they talking about exactly?
As usual, it's a line George wrote because he thought it sounded cool without giving a second thought to what it actually meant. And in the process made the Jedi council out to be a collection of retards

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Ahhhhh prophecies.....laziest writing in media history

Edit:not only movie history

Theoretically the jedi were becoming complacent, and there was a lot of "legend" shit happening in the prequels that was thought to be leading to them being destroyed. Like any good prophecy/legend, it's mostly bullshit, so they let their own destruction in through the front door. Not exactly the pinnacle of hubris, but it fits the general feeling of the Jedi Council as portrayed in the prequels. Doesn't make it good storytelling at all, but it is fairly consistent.

Rezz_sl said:

Theoretically the jedi were becoming complacent, and there was a lot of "legend" shit happening in the prequels that was thought to be leading to them being destroyed. Like any good prophecy/legend, it's mostly bullshit, so they let their own destruction in through the front door. Not exactly the pinnacle of hubris, but it fits the general feeling of the Jedi Council as portrayed in the prequels. Doesn't make it good storytelling at all, but it is fairly consistent.

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Actually, it was completely unnecessary. Have a bunch of Jedi leading the Republic Army against a clone army from some evil faction and attrition sets in, the Jedi are nearly wiped out almost immediately due to low numbers so they start training quicker, taking more recruits over time and Palps makes his move finishing them off and taking advantage of what happens when you give an angsty teenager lots of power. No love story, no prophecy, no idiotic droids, no billions of lightsabers, no sith combat - just Palps looking for a disciple and a situation to exploit to take power that goes better than expected when he gets the opportunity to wipe out the Jedi by being a position of trust.

Kegkilla could write better prequels than Lucas. We don't need to beat that dead horse.

The Ancient_sl said:

Gosh it's weird how absolutely nothing that happened in 1-3 was referenced, but plenty of key characters and events from 4-6 were. It's almost as if the first 3 films were intentionally ignored for this movie.

Because they were fucking terrible and everyone knows that.

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To be fair if Han Solo and Luke Skywalker are near fairy tale status to your average back water (referencing Rey and Finn's dialogue when Han boards the Falcon) and they are way more recent and relevant, them not bringing up much from 1-3 is actually in line with what we know about the universe. It's been referenced in some of the new literature and I think even on Rebels and I'm sure elsewhere that Palp and Vader intentionally buried anything Jedi after Order 66. One of those the Victor writes the history books scenarios, god knows they wanted to stamp out the Jedi order from ever coming back, and also pulled some pretty creative rewriting of history to make the Empire out as the saviors of the Galaxy over the Republic and the Jedi.

That being said, I'm not going to bring up the shit sandwich we made you eat years ago, if you are willing to walk back in and pay me money again for something new on the menu either. If they do much homage to the prequels, I'd rather they do so to the Clone Wars series rather than the actual films. Some Ahsoka love, assuming she doesn't bite it in Rebels (or isn't dead not sure how long Togruta sp? live), or maybe flesh out some of Chewbacca's back story since he is one of the few species that would live long enough to have anything to do with that era.