Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)

Springbok said:

Man fuck this gay movie

The Darth Plagueis = Jar Jar was the most retarded Star Wars idea I'd ever read... then I watched this film and wished Jar Jar was in it.

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also totally random but some dude is spending hundreds of hours redoing the fight scene in A New Hope between vader and obi-wan, he released a trailer of it. Looks kinda cool but obi wan goes sharp into uncanny valley real fast

Good video... Merry Christmas everyone!

jayrebb said:

But but but Rian took risks in this movie they said! I agree though with the chemistry between Rey and Kylo. I felt Rey was miles ahead of TFA Rey. She even ticked up a few points of attractiveness looks wise. Maturing 2-3 years has done a lot for her on screen. Everyone turned in some stellar performances for their characters.

How can we criticize the lack of development with so many RISKS. This was a RISKY movie. A quick glance of Rian's IG indeed confirms his life is at RISK, so its gotta be RISKY.

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So ... you don't think that he took any actual risks in this one?

The Women Who Run the ‘Star Wars’ Universe

Kathleen Kennedy founded the group in 2012 when she succeeded George Lucas as president of Lucasfilm, putting Kiri Hart, a former film and TV writer, in charge of the unit. Ms. Hart’s first move was to make the story group entirely female, starting with Rayne Roberts and Carrie Beck. Both women had experience in film development but had also worked in other arenas — Ms. Roberts in magazine publishing, and Ms. Beck with the Sundance Institute.

Disney, it appears, did force her to take men...

Today, the Lucasfilm story group is a diverse outlier in Hollywood: five of its members are people of color, and the team includes four women and seven men. This is a rarity in 2017, where women account for 13 percent, and minorities represent 5 percent, of all writers working on the top-grossing films. In addition to maintaining the continuity of the “Star Wars” universe, they aim to increase its diversity.


Just linking because I saw some people say that there weren't overt, and pretty ham fisted attempts to portray women in an ultra competent light in this film. It was pretty clear how ideology was pushing them to write the women a certain way. However, it wasn't cringe worthy at least, except for the Poe stuff--but they do have a real problem with the female characters being less interesting because they have to try to make them always right, and more competent.

I guess we'll see what happens. But this story group feels pretty fucking toxic in so far as being ideologically driven, rather than driven by some desire to see the universe make sense internally to the fans. I hope they take care of it, honestly. Because the more I think on TLJ, the more I realize how utterly terrible the movie was from a purely narrative stand point. Some of that was blunted by the main characters being charismatic, and how well put together the scenes were--but that's a nice coat of paint on a lemon. The more I'm left to digest the movie, the more I realize how empty and ridiculous it was. It truly was just someone trolling it felt like, doing the reverse of what everyone expected for some shock value, regardless of it made sense or regardless of how deep the impact was.

All the twists and turns were as superficial as Michael Bay explosions, strong attention draws in the moment, until you realize what an utter bore it is if you don't care what's blowing up. Well, at a certain point in this movie I realized I don't care about any of the characters, at all. Even now, I actually don't give a shit what will happen in the next movie, and I don't think that's a good thing for the new "trilogy".

Royal said:

So ... you don't think that he took any actual risks in this one?

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I think he took tons of risks. Like my grandmother who plays the cheap slot machines takes tons of "risks", technically--but they won't affect her, not really. Every risk he took didn't fundamentally change the story, just how we perceived the story's current trajectory. I mean, can you tell me a risk that genuinely affected the principle characters in a significant way? The twist with Luke? Explained why the story was like it was, it didn't actually change any characters. Snoke dying and not explaining him? Didn't change the main antagonistic relationship in the story at all, Kylo and Rey are still opposed, the first order and the resistance are still fighting. Rey being from no where? Didn't stop her from being amazing at everything and doing her mission.

Let me ask you something, Royal. At the end of this movie, did any character END UP in a way that surprised you at all--or did the movie end *precisely* how you expected it to in terms of where the characters were and what their goals were?

For me, I went in expecting..Luke to die. Rey to rise to being the fully fleshed out "good guy hero unit". Kylo to become the fully fleshed out "bad guy hero unit". Poe and Finn would become somehow better or more idealistic within the resistance. For the resistance to be on the run and desperate, mirroring Empire Strikes Back. For the First Order to be in a more dominant position....Everything I thought, was precisely how it happened. The only surprises, like Snoke dying, or Leia living? Really don't affect the main principles of the story. If Snoke lived I expected him to be a shadowy figure that didn't do much and died next movie. Leia is going to continue to be a fossil.

Just chew on it for a moment. Think of everything that surprised you in this movie...then tell me if the characters ended up anywhere surprising or with any goals that surprised you at all? Or are they almost precisely how they were at the start of the movie, but now only "more and betterer" after those goals?

Tuco said:

I found this answer poignant @23m0s



Look at how Mark Hamill throws his hands up and recoils. He knows this movie fucking sucks.

I think by the time they showed what Luke was going to do I already gave zero fucks about the movie. I got a glimmer of hope of something cool happening when Luke showed some flex, then they fucked that up to. What a disaster this movie is in every conceivable way.

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I'm saying why the fuck did that ending not get a test audience? Re: the Luke result.

That is absolutely something that Disney, or any major studio, would typically test audience and react to a lower score. Lucas Film, can you release the scores on that? Hey maybe it was all blood relatives and Rian's Instagram press tour folks doing the testing. I think Royal or someone already said it several pages ago, but the main trilogy isn't something you necessarily take risks on. That's for the anthology flicks and peripheral where you want to pull out the arthouse creative.

This movie was highly salvageable-- by just making Luke kick a little more ass, giving him a full blown out of this world redemption (this was like pulling teeth for Rian get that guy a fucking dentist), leaving Luke's death as very very super saiyan discussion boss level ambiguous-- which then allows JJ to decide whether to carry the Luke hype into Episode 9 or not. Don't force JJ to accept force ghost Luke or force JJ to write a disgusting Star Trek time force continuum resurrection scene if he wants Luke back. This is where the cognitive dissonance with Rian's creative really shows itself. He left Kylo in neutral for an Episode 9 decision, while eviscerating a Luke redemption arc. Yet Rian said he wanted to leave it up to JJ on all decisions for 9. You can still buff Luke up and leave it to JJ. Bullshit excuse busted.

Add deleting Kylo's "welp after that tidal wave of emotions I'm resolved to stay the course" scene. Seriously delete the Kylo scenes and dialogue where he rationalizes to Rey, still let him kill Snoke, and don't offer much explanation, let Kylo let Rey go silently without much said. A little mystique goes a long way. Its hard, I know.

I'd gut pretty much all of the Kylo dialogue throughout the entire film though. Those telepathy conversations have gotta go-- that's Phantom Menace level stuff via what it was doing to Kylo's character with the Snoke room scene taken into consideration. Demeaning your main villain and antagonist is not a good idea, and yet again, another unfair move to JJ and Episode 9.

They have a Story Group that serves as an executive council of sorts when it comes to Star Wars canon. All the writers / directors of various products in the franchise work with them to review and refine their material. Rian Johnson mentioned in interviews being with the Group for weeks working through his ideas for Last Jedi

Lithose said:

Let me ask you something, Royal. At the end of this movie, did any character END UP in a way that surprised you at all--or did the movie end *precisely* how you expected it to in terms of where the characters were and what their goals were?

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Luke dying. I said several time in the TFA thread and this one that I didn't think they'd have him die, especially after Fisher passed away.

It seems to me that you're being overly restrictive in how you define meaningful risks though. How often do we hear it's not just about the destination but also the journey with storytelling? Perhaps it would have been more satisfying to you if characters had ended up in places you didn't expect (which is itself a highly personal thing, those will run a spectrum for an audience) but for others how those characters get their has more meaning. And that is where Johnson took his risks. And they were meaningful, conscious risks rather than just miscalculating what the audience wanted.

jayrebb said:

I'm saying why the fuck did that ending not get a test audience? Re: the Luke result.

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Lucasfilm doesn't do public test screenings. They screen internally and with a few trusted, external figures but nothing that would be considered traditional test screening.

Incidently Marvel doesn't do public testing either (which I'm only bringing up because I'm pretty sure I mentioned in the Ragnarok thread it must have tested well but found out later they don't do them).

Lambourne said:

Got around to seeing it yesterday. I've never felt so blueballed by a movie.There are so many moments where you get a glimpse of how great it could be, which is then immediately snatched away and replaced by something utterly trite.

Luke turned introspective and reclusive in his old age? An interesting turn, immediately spoiled by throwing pointless dumb aliens and misplaced humor into it.
Dramatic Leia death scene? Nope lets do a cheesy save at the last minute using her previously unknown powers which are never used again.
Rey and Kylo Ren establishing a connection and joining forces? Nope back into your black and white boxes you go.
Finn's ready to kill himself for something he believes in? Nope last minute save because of "love".

Christ there's so many of these cocktease moments where the table is set for something interesting to happen, and then it doesn't. It feels so close to being fantastic at times. I'm reminded of the old adage of perfection not being when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.

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Blueballed is also how I described it. Well, I said it was like getting a blowjob and just before having an orgasm he gets punched in the face and is told LOLJK.

Tuco said:

I found this answer poignant @23m0s



Look at how Mark Hamill throws his hands up and recoils. He knows this movie fucking sucks.

I think by the time they showed what Luke was going to do I already gave zero fucks about the movie. I got a glimmer of hope of something cool happening when Luke showed some flex, then they fucked that up to. What a disaster this movie is in every conceivable way.

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Oh god, poor Mark. He needs a hug so bad. I've seen at least 3 clips of him now post movie that genuinely look like he is almost about to have a heart attack. I hope he knows the fans know that he cares and that he doesn't like it and is just as upset about it (if not more) than we are.

Morrow said:

Oh god, poor Mark. He needs a hug so bad. I've seen at least 3 clips of him now post movie that genuinely look like he is almost about to have a heart attack. I hope he knows the fans know that he cares and that he doesn't like it and is just as upset about it (if not more) than we are.

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Yea he gives off this intense vibe like he's ready to snap. I'm sure he's got some contract stipulation where he can't come down on the movie too hard but that is not the face of a man genuinely happy with how this film turned out.

It's sad because he seems to be so deeply personally invested in the Luke Skywalker character and that sort of dedication from an actor could have added so much.

Saw it last night. Absolute dog shit.

I won't go into the litany of abuses I could pile up against this steaming pile. I'll simply leave one - listen to Vader or Alec Guinness speak in the original movies. They speak their lines with gravity. The casts of these new movies just sound like little whiny bitches in comparison.

Because differing opinions are good for you. Feel free to be triggered.

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ANH
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ESB
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(Fan fiction)
TLJ
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