Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)

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Gavinmad

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Except when talking to Han Solo in TFA she thought Luke Skywalker and the Jedi stories were a fucking myth and the public at large had bascially no idea about the Jedi aspect of Return of the Jedi. Just that the Emperor got rekt.

Oh the Force must exist? Maybe if I sit and think real hard like I can do shit with it huh? This is shitty because it undermines the concept that becoming a Jedi and using the Force is extremely difficult and can take years and years of discipline, training, and a monk like dedication to become an adept user of the Force.

This argument is a non-starter. You don't see kids spontaneously using the force in the movies because there are hardly any young children in the movies. And the only prominently featured young child in any of the movies can already subconsciously use the force before being trained by a Jedi. Second of all...who trained the Jedi? If it's impossible to use the force without first having been trained how to do it, then nobody could have ever learned how to use the force in the first place.

In Rebels Ezra opens a holocron in the very first episode, and manages a force push strong enough to throw an adult backwards several feet in the second episode. In the episode where they rescue the force-sensitive babies from the inquisitors Ezra realizes that the Ithorian baby is able to sense his fear through the force. Probably some decent examples in Clone Wars too but they undoubtedly involve the youngling episodes and I choose not to try to remember those.
 

Muurloen

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This argument is a non-starter. You don't see kids spontaneously using the force in the movies because there are hardly any young children in the movies. And the only prominently featured young child in any of the movies can already subconsciously use the force before being trained by a Jedi. Second of all...who trained the Jedi? If it's impossible to use the force without first having been trained how to do it, then nobody could have ever learned how to use the force in the first place.

In Rebels Ezra opens a holocron in the very first episode, and manages a force push strong enough to throw an adult backwards several feet in the second episode. In the episode where they rescue the force-sensitive babies from the inquisitors Ezra realizes that the Ithorian baby is able to sense his fear through the force. Probably some decent examples in Clone Wars too but they undoubtedly involve the youngling episodes and I choose not to try to remember those.
Explain the rebel ring child force pulling his broom to me again?
 

Royal

Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures
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Except when talking to Han Solo in TFA she thought Luke Skywalker and the Jedi stories were a fucking myth and the public at large had bascially no idea about the Jedi aspect of Return of the Jedi. Just that the Emperor got rekt.

The part about no one knowing about Luke isn't true. His name was known throughout the Rebellion after ANH though some were pretty dismissive of him as just some lucky kid. After the fall of the Empire many people across the galaxy knew that Luke Skywalker was a jedi like those of old. Luke himself mentioned being a legend in the movie.

Just because people had started to move on to thinking he had just been a myth doesn't mean that those myths couldn't serve as a basis for knowing what might be possible thru the force especially once you've discovered that no, the man and what he did was no myth but very real.
 

Muurloen

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Because it blows what you said a moment ago out of the water.

Trust me I don't like that as much as the next non-assuming gender binary person, but hey this is the direction they are going.
 

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Because it blows what you said a moment ago out of the water.

Trust me I don't like that as much as the next non-assuming gender binary person, but hey this is the direction they are going.

uh, what? I just said that people can use the force without training. How does a kid using the force without training contradict me saying that people can use the force without training?
 

Muurloen

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uh, what? I just said that people can use the force without training. How does a kid using the force without training contradict me saying that people can use the force without training?
Maybe i am misunderstood you here in the following.

This argument is a non-starter. You don't see kids spontaneously using the force in the movies because there are hardly any young children in the movies. And the only prominently featured young child in any of the movies can already subconsciously use the force before being trained by a Jedi.
Is force pulling a basic or more of an advanced trained skill?

I could be wrong, but I see it as more of an advanced skill. Those that are force sensitive, but with 0 training have what are perceived as unbelievable reactions, ie Anakin being the only human able to pilot a podracer.
 

a c i d.f l y

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I would have enjoyed this film more if it had Larry David and Leon in it pondering questions more interesting than anything which was answered in this film, like do Jedi use the force to jerk themselves off? Why wouldn't they? Or in Rey's case...

Maybe that was Snoke's objective. Watching Rey and Ben force fuck across the galaxy. What a creeper.
 
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Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Maybe i am misunderstood you here in the following.


Is force pulling a basic or more of an advanced trained skill?

I could be wrong, but I see it as more of an advanced skill. Those that are force sensitive, but with 0 training have what are perceived as unbelievable reactions, ie Anakin being the only human able to pilot a podracer.

Force TK is probably the single most fundamental application of the force there is, you're simply using the force to directly affect material objects. And like I mentioned, the second time Ezra uses the force in Rebels, it's a force push strong enough to throw an adult male probably 20-30 feet if there hadn't been a rock right behind him. Still had received zero training from Kanan by that point, this was only the second episode.

I admit that him just casually zoinking the broom across the room without even really thinking about it doesn't fit very well, but there's a vague possibility that Rian Johnson is a really shitty writer.
 

TJT

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uh, what? I just said that people can use the force without training. How does a kid using the force without training contradict me saying that people can use the force without training?

I mean that it takes the Jedi dedication to use the force effectively and in more advanced ways beyond some force outburst shit.

I also refuse to rely on these supplemental materials to explain away a shit film. Even if I do like Star wars books. I ain't going to watch the Clones cartoon ever.
 
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Royal

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I admit that him just casually zoinking the broom across the room without even really thinking about it doesn't fit very well, but there's a vague possibility that Rian Johnson is a really shitty writer.

Well he didn't pull it to himself across the room. While being a couple of steps away from it reached for the broom as he walked to pick it up and it closed part of the distance between it and his hand by being pulled to him. It looked pretty much like what you'd expect a subconscious use of TK to look like.
 

Oblio

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I mean that it takes the Jedi dedication to use the force effectively and in more advanced ways beyond some force outburst shit.

I also refuse to rely on these supplemental materials to explain away a shit film. Even if I do like Star wars books. I ain't going to watch the Clones cartoon ever.
Sad to say, but you are missing out on some of the best Star Wars since OT's.
 
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a_skeleton_03

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Here is the first 45 minutes scene by scene. Once it's done entirely I will probably make an entirely new thread with it all.

Opening crawl - What is the timeframe from the last movie to this movie? If we pick up with Rey giving the lightsaber when TFA ended what happened with the resistance previous that we needed a synopsis for?

They are evacuating because they know that the First Order knows of their position? They have spies that good to know they are about to jump out of lightspeed? Where is the explanation of why they know?

They issues the order to the dreadnought before it even moves in?

A single light fighter comes into range of the dreadnought and is completely kitted with a booster because they knew the dreadnought would be there?

Terrible dialogue with your momma jokes and "hold" shenanigans, terrible.

He waits until partway through the conversation to start priming his booster ...

BB-8's head is rolled back from the speed but that doesn't happen during lightspeed does it? Oh wait that's comical and so we can know that they are going super fast.

He took a hit to an engine but didn't slow down at all and his weapons system is what was ruined.

That transport broke through atmosphere like it was practically lightspeed.

Leia tells him to get his squad out of there now, at this point he is completely solo so she could tell the rest to not join him and leave him out there. He then says "these things" are fleet killers, are there more?

BB-8 uses his rounded head to short out a flat board ...

He does a flat manuever right and then one again to take out two tie fighters and when he does so you can no longer see the booster he had specially installed, did they forget about that in the CGI or did he jettison it and I missed it?

He then clears the ship and THEN the bombers start approaching. We see exactly 9 bombers, I paused and counted. We see about that many support fighters and probably 9-12 tie fighters. HUGE space battle.

We need to be told to do our job of protecting the bombers as fighters as if they don't know.
The bombs with manual sighting down the tube and a trigger on a cable ....

Bombers are shot up slowly to be dramatic but not one of them has extra kaboom despite being full of bombs that can take down a fleet killer. I would assume that close they could have a huge blast radius, maybe even kamikaze.

The last bomber Rose sister for some reason takes off her oxygen mask despite being in an unpressurized spaceship. We need to be able to see her face of course. She is inches away from vacuum when she falls but that isn't a problem.

Leia senses all of this for some reason? The force clued her in on the troubles going on? I don't know why we have a 2 second flash to her.

The explosion is massive but no ISD's are anywhere near in range for some reason.

7 fighters survive.

Long range Snoke force moving of the general.

Finn wakes up in what doesn't look like a med bay but a storage closet where they rolled him into.

The leaking bag thing which is totally ridiculous.

Some random commando is running down the halls with weapon at the ready like he is going to shoot at star destroyers while they are in space.

Rey hands over lightsaber and we get that awesome over the shoulder toss back. Does she pick it up then? No, she immediately walks away so that we can later have her come back to see her first Porgu of course.

The completely quiet island is now full of Porgu noises now that we got the drama over.

For some reason we have a couple seconds of her laying out her room.

Chewie has to be translated to Luke because after all these years he has never learned to talk to his best friends best friend.
Imperial royal guards are shown with their grab bag of weapons because why not.

For some reason there is the telescope thing in his throne room because despite being able to view anything with the force he needs that in his room? For the normies that visit often? Why not a normal video screen?

Still don't know why Kylo's helmet has a woush sound to it instead of just being something that is placed on.

Snoke throws Kylo back and force lightning's him but the royal guard react just so they can be shown doing some special martial arts moves in order to return back to being statues.

Rey tells Luke that the First Order will control all the major systems within weeks, don't they already? What more is there to be done? How can we empathize with how small the resistance is and that nobody will help them without the first order already being in control?

Here is the little afternoon outing across the island to agressively drink green milk while making uncomfortable eye contact.

He has to leap to the other side to use the spear? It was perfectly usable from right there where he was. He spears this huge fish despite all the fish we had seen earlier on in his little village being small on a stringer.

There's a storm on their way back, nope that isn't really a storm because back in the village it is sunny. Don't know why there is a storm for a few seconds.

The light shines through the tree hole on the books? Right at that exact time every day? I guess this might be nitpicky.

I think she has named dropped Leia a half dozen times now. Right on cue we flash over to her.

A total of 4 ships jump out of lightspeed.

They needed to wait until out of lightspeed to demote Poe.

Somehow Finn immediately knows what a cloaked binary beacon is from seeing it. I guess these get used every day?
There is a proximity alert before ships come out of hyperspace?

I am going to go over how the books and movies have explained lightspeed up until this point. There are "lanes" that are scouted to be clear of any objects that could impact and tear a ship to shreds. From a certain point in space you angle and jump. You can come out early or you can come out on time. It of course is never explored on what happens when ships are jumping in front of you. Anyways based on their trajectory from the previous planet they don't need to be "tracked". With that being said they instantly knew what happened despite it never having happened before and being a complete theoretical.

They have at least 7 ISD's and one super Snoke destroyer but we see less than a half dozen tie fighters. They should be blotting out the sun.
We get a sweet throwback to the prequels with Kylo flying through a docking bay.

They need to outrange the star destroyers and if so the fighters will fall back? No that's exactly what they are there for, that and for dogfighting.

The Kylo targetting reticle is huge compared to the ship.

Some reason the tie that does shoot does so for a surface shot instead of a direct hit right at it. So that the hull explodes outward with the vaccuum.

Then the General tells Kylo what to do.

Now they talk about 3 cruisers, I saw 4 jump out of lightspeed and none destroyed.

Leia poppins the ice cube comes back into the ship with open eyes. They pop a door open for her, vaccuum doesn't affect anyone.
Despite having a kitchen on the Falcon they are BBQing Porgu outside by a fire. Completely dressed bird but they left the feet on it. He can't eat one he has already killed and cooked because they are looking at him sadly, they didn't do that before he killed one?!?!

Oh now we see R2D2 because why not.

R2 is showing the hologram of Leia but turns his head while doing so yet it continues.

Rey is sleeping outside for some reason?

We have to let everyone know in a briefing room who is dead like they don't already know?

Out comes purple hair that somehow is a Vice Admiral but not in any kind of uniform despite every single other person being in uniform? Every single person but her in that room is in uniform.

Poe now lectures her on what fuel is. Now we go over what rank he is because why not.

Oh snap she dropped the flyboy.

Finn puts his backpack down in front of the pod. Remember this.

We get it she is awkward and can't talk to bigwigs.

Now the backpack has teleported inside of the pod to the chair.

She has him on a mag cart that should require no effort to move but she is having to drag it.

Oh we get it, he's stunned so he can't move well. Now everyone understands "active tracking". They have an "A class process" and all of a sudden both of them know everything about this. Oh and stormtroopers mop the floors? Isn't that what the specific little square mouse droid is for? Oh wait Poe doesn't understand active tracking and what it means, just the stormtrooper and mechanic ....
 
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jayrebb

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there's a vague possibility that Rian Johnson is a really shitty writer.

incep.png
 
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Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Well he didn't pull it to himself across the room. While being a couple of steps away from it reached for the broom as he walked to pick it up and it closed part of the distance between it and his hand by being pulled to him. It looked pretty much like what you'd expect a subconscious use of TK to look like.

Yeah except I would expect a surprised response the first time it happened, his lack of that implies that it's a practiced and casual effort.
 

Khane

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The Force awoke within him when Finn and Rose freed the animals and left all the children to rot. His budding hatred for them is already turning him to the dark side. Darth Slavious.
 
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