Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)

spronk · Dec 16, 2017

Urgoslav said:
Is there enough new lore here to create a new KotoR level game like what came after the prequels?

Don't care if the movies are great, just that the byproducts are sweet sweet RPGs.

Not really, no. It continues some of the lore but it really just fills in missing pieces of stuff we already know, and mostly sets up 9. It is a bridge movie in every sense of the word. Also EA still has the exclusive star wars video game license, they have been working on one or two RPGs which has now been shrunk to just a single RPG plus battlefront, which "intersects" with TFA and TLJ but its more like "hey look... that thing on the side of the screen, that happened in the movie while we are doing our thing right here!" than actual straight plot attachment. EA signed a 10 year deal back in 2013 I believe.

Re: luke, spoilers and stuff

I liked the way he went out. Remember, Luke's progression is

Luke (indirectly) kills the Emperor, saves his dad, destroys the Sith, and brings hope back to the universe.
Luke starts training new Jedi, continuing the ways of Yoda and the Jedi order.
He sees darkness in his strongest student and freaks the fuck out, in a moment of weakness thinks about killing Ben but pulls back.
Ben kills almost all his students and leaves him for dead.
Luke blames himself, vows that the Jedi die with him and goes to a planet to basically die alone and forgotten.

Now going from that - essentially despair and suicidal to his last moments being one where he saves his sister and the last members of the resistance by vastly expanding what a force user can do is the very definition of an awesome hero in my book. Its not blowing up death stars or destroying millions of enemy soldiers, its saving people you love and showing the enemy that they cannot beat you. For me, Luke went out like a boss. I'm sure his force ghost will be in EP9 like obi wan and yoda showed up in ESB/ROTJ and now we see force ghosts can also effect the real world if they want to.

Re: ep 9, I think the outer rim will definitely play a huge part. The end of the first DLC of battlefront 2 also has the daughter of the BF2 campaign (who people thought might be Rey, but it turns out to be a DIFFERENT 20-year old chick) go out to the Outer Rim to find allies at the orders of General Leia Organa.

Going to see this again tonight with the wife, be interesting to see if my opinion goes up or down on second viewing.

khorum · Dec 16, 2017

That dichotomy wasn't resolved by him---even at the very end he was conflicted and he couldn't do what he'd wanted to do until he got some help from a friend.

Besides it's only a dichotomy if you consider that hero's journey to be an INTERNAL one---it was not. All of Luke's trials and tribulations before have been externalizations imposed on him. Rescuing Leia, his father's crimes, Palpatine etc were all external challenges and what failures he had to absorb were imposed by circumstances beyond his control.

Is it so remarkable that people change the most when they're confronted by a failure from within their own character? When everything he believed is challenged and found defective? That's not remarkable at all, it's pretty much a cliche.

Jive Turkey · Dec 16, 2017

Miguex said:
You can’t have it this way because Poe never would have stood up to that character with all the legend and experience behind him, as opposed to new rando vice admiral

But it was kind of a lame storyline anyway. Give Poe something more interesting to do

Jive Turkey · Dec 16, 2017

Valishar said:
This movie has four acts (or seems to have four anyway), this is why it feels weird and long to watch since most movies have three.

Act 1 - Meeting Luke/Dreadnaught Fight
Act 2 - Jedi Training/Space Pursuit/Casino planet
Act 3 - Conflict on Snokes ship
Act 4 - The land battle

I know a lot of you are saying that the casino planet stuff was horrible, but really the whole climax of the film was in the throne room and it should've ended shortly after that. The whole land battle portion of the movie threw the pacing of the movie off technically that should've been where the denouement was.

The old movies were always great at mixing multiple action scenes into the same portion of the film, running parallel. This movie seemed to give them each their own screen time, back to back. I think the old way is more successful, but maybe they were avoiding it for being cliche

Muligan · Dec 16, 2017

I think we need thread just for where it could or should go from here. Curious if anyone hits it. I really don't i've ever had a movie where I sat there at the end and was completely surprised how they shutdown so many characters and story arcs.

Here's what i'm hoping for...

Just in case.. i'll spoiler tag it

Kylo is lying about Reys parents hoping to lessen her powers by misdirecting her. I really think Luke is completely confused with who she is or maybe he does know? Yoda seems to know more than he's letting on.

Snoke is just some jerk that filled the evil void when the Emperor died and now some stronger power is going to reach out to Hux and they betray Kylo and beat him senseless making him some worthless puppet which leads him to join Rey in the end. Kylo or Rey need to sacrifice one for the other.

I think it would be cool if the insignia in the temple ended up being the spirit of what created Anakin. The force ghost picture of Anakin reminds of that ying yang depiction. Would be interesting to see if what created Anakin was the ultimate evil and Luke was right. This idea has to die but this entity of the force disagrees as it thrives on life and death, war, and chaos. The jedi were just too blind to see they were puppets to this idea. Thanks to 8 we now know that the force can interact with the real world at different levels al a Yoda vs the tree and Luke vs Kylo.

I want to see Anakin, Obi Wan, and Qui-Gon all be a part of 9 in addition to Luke and Yoda. They have all given clues and different interpretations of the force. Would be cool if it all about stopping this cycle thus stopping the reoccurrence of war and chaos. However, this starts treading into Matrix territory but i'm not sure how you completely avoid other ideas.

I just don't think Kylo is a strong enough (not in terms of strength) end game character. There has to be more. A greater struggle. I think we need a little more of the past in this last movie and some fan service. Rian Johnson did the opposite of what the fans expected so now let's bring it home right. As much I like JJ as a fan and how he talks about his passions, i'm not sure if he can deliver a 10/10 movie.

Jive Turkey · Dec 16, 2017

khorum said:
That last duel...

between Ben and Luke I thought it was intentionally obvious that Luke was a hologram/astral projection...Rian telegraphed it with those shots of Luke's feet NOT leaving any red footprints on Crait.

I gasped when I caught it and most the folks who saw it with me noticed too. There was a moment I thought he may have teleported himself after I thought he nicked Ben but he still didnt leave red footprints even as they fought.

I noticed it, but I honestly thought it was just sloppy movie making at the time. Like the specific set they were on was designed for a lightsaber duel, so the didn't cover it with slippery salt. Whomp

Vaclav · Dec 16, 2017

Mulligan:

You elaborated more than I did, obviously - but yea, I'm on a similar wavelength for my expectations

Jive Turkey · Dec 16, 2017

khorum said:
Yep. It was in a fleet without the Mon Calamari capital ships so it must've jumped there without their help.

This is still the single best scene in all of Star Wars. It's so quiet and unassuming, but it's got emotional weight that was never reached again. And it really gets at why people feel so strongly about the OT. It's always been about the characters and how we feel about them. The ending of ESB was so powerful because all the friends were scattered across the galaxy and the future was uncertain and that (apart from the galaxy bit) is such a human experience. But that connection is so strong that when we see Han and Chewie for the first time in The Force Awakens, it almost feels like seeing old friends again, even though we've seen Harrison Ford countless times since Return of the Jedi.

I felt that a bit when Yoda made his appearance in The Last Jedi, although I wish they just used a replica of the original puppet

Remmy · Dec 16, 2017

This movie was 70% garbage. It's like watching star wars + the three stooges as the entire supporting cast. How many times did they have to verbally say what was happening in a scene just to make sure the dumb fuck audience understood what was obviously fucking happening?

Also fuck the shitty sjw acting cast. If you want to make a fucking movie diverse get good diverse actors and give them lines that aren't shit.

I gave 0 fucks/feels about anyone that wasn't original cast. In fact I was hoping most of the supporting cast would bite it hard. Who writes this shit? Why the fuck do the rebellion members act like dip shit children instead of actual grizzled motherfuckers? Why do the big players in the empire act like shitty written cartoon characters?

Give me this you fucks.

Brodhi · Dec 16, 2017

Jive Turkey said:
This is still the single best scene in all of Star Wars.

It is, and Last Jedi had everything it needed for a similar setup...forgive the entire movie , they still could have at least ended it with emotional cliffhangers, but nope. Its like they weren't quiet sure if there would be a follow up, which they knew there was, so it made no sense.

spronk · Dec 16, 2017

the guy who directed this movie is in charge of the new trilogy btw

Lunis · Dec 16, 2017

When you can't think of a good way to wrap up a storyline just kill everyone - see The Departed.

Fadaar · Dec 16, 2017

Lunis said:
When you can't think of a good way to wrap up a storyline just kill everyone - see The Departed.

kind of a bad example since that's an American remake of a foreign film

Big Phoenix · Dec 16, 2017

You people all sound like battered housewives who cant come to terms their abusive husband(Star Wars/Disney) is a piece of shit that beats them.

TFA was mediocre shot for shot remake oh ANH
R1 was a garbage nostalgia cash grab

Face it, Star Wars is fucked and Disney is basically dangling you by your ankles while shaking all the money out of your pockets.

Chris · Dec 16, 2017

I'm having a hard time ranking this film. Before it we probably had something like:

Empire
New Hope
Return of the Jedi
Force Awakens
Phantom Menace
Revenge of the Sith
Clone Wars

Half of this movie is better than Force Awakens and nearly on par with the originals (Anything with Rey/Luke and Ren/Snoke) and half is worse than Clone Wars (Anything with Finn and Poe). I prefer disposable CGI Clone Troops and coarse sand to Admiral SJW and Harry Potter sidequest casino.

Average of fourth best and eight best is sixth place, below phantom menace... a lot of the prequel hate was in hindsight too, I hated Binks and Robots vs Clones as at the time but I never fully appreciated how bad the romance was at the time. I wonder how badly this will age...

The Edge · Dec 16, 2017

Muligan said:
I think we need thread just for where it could or should go from here. Curious if anyone hits it. I really don't i've ever had a movie where I sat there at the end and was completely surprised how they shutdown so many characters and story arcs.

Here's what i'm hoping for...

Just in case.. i'll spoiler tag it

Kylo is lying about Reys parents hoping to lessen her powers by misdirecting her. I really think Luke is completely confused with who she is or maybe he does know? Yoda seems to know more than he's letting on.

Snoke is just some jerk that filled the evil void when the Emperor died and now some stronger power is going to reach out to Hux and they betray Kylo and beat him senseless making him some worthless puppet which leads him to join Rey in the end. Kylo or Rey need to sacrifice one for the other.

I think it would be cool if the insignia in the temple ended up being the spirit of what created Anakin. The force ghost picture of Anakin reminds of that ying yang depiction. Would be interesting to see if what created Anakin was the ultimate evil and Luke was right. This idea has to die but this entity of the force disagrees as it thrives on life and death, war, and chaos. The jedi were just too blind to see they were puppets to this idea. Thanks to 8 we now know that the force can interact with the real world at different levels al a Yoda vs the tree and Luke vs Kylo.

I want to see Anakin, Obi Wan, and Qui-Gon all be a part of 9 in addition to Luke and Yoda. They have all given clues and different interpretations of the force. Would be cool if it all about stopping this cycle thus stopping the reoccurrence of war and chaos. However, this starts treading into Matrix territory but i'm not sure how you completely avoid other ideas.

I just don't think Kylo is a strong enough (not in terms of strength) end game character. There has to be more. A greater struggle. I think we need a little more of the past in this last movie and some fan service. Rian Johnson did the opposite of what the fans expected so now let's bring it home right. As much I like JJ as a fan and how he talks about his passions, i'm not sure if he can deliver a 10/10 movie.

It's been confirmed by Lucas that Palpatine used the Force to create Anakin, after learning from Plagueis.

Ossoi · Dec 16, 2017

Lunis said:
When you can't think of a good way to wrap up a storyline just kill everyone - see The Departed.

Ironic seeing as how Scorsese didn't think of that either, The Departed was a remake of Infernal Affairs

Gavinmad · Dec 16, 2017

The Edge said:
It's been confirmed by Lucas that Palpatine used the Force to create Anakin, after learning from Plagueis.

That sounds like the kind of retarded nonsensical bullshit that Lucas would think was a good idea. Not only did he use the force to induce some random slave woman to immaculately conceive a child that would be a vergence in the force, he did it on some backwater shithole in the outer rim so far removed from the rest of galactic civilization that the odds were incredibly unlikely he would ever be discovered and taken to the Jedi temple. Except that a Jedi Master just happened to be in the galactic region on a mission, and just happened to need a backwater to hide on while they searched for a replacement hyperdrive, and they happened to land at the same settlement Anakin lived at, and this Master just happened to be a headstrong jackass who decided he would ignore the council and train the boy even though he was too old, which actually helped contribute to the mental and emotional instability that he later used to turn Anakin to the dark side.

And he inexplicably dispatched his apprentice Darth Maul to kill this Master, which if he had successfully done on Tattooine would have prevented Anakin from ever being brought up in the Jedi Order and being in a position to betray them.

The Edge · Dec 16, 2017

All Palpatine knew through his visions was that if he were to create this child, it would help him destroy the Jedi. The steps that would take place to make that all come to pass was the will of the Force. There is no coincidence, and it wasn't by chance that Qui-Gon ended up on Tatooine.

Sterling · Dec 16, 2017

That's just shitty.

Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)

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