Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)

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khorum

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That last duel...

between Ben and Luke I thought it was intentionally obvious that Luke was a hologram/astral projection...Rian telegraphed it with those shots of Luke's feet NOT leaving any red footprints on Crait.

I gasped when I caught it and most the folks who saw it with me noticed too. There was a moment I thought he may have teleported himself after I thought he nicked Ben but he still didnt leave red footprints even as they fought.
 
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Bubbles

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as someone who has absolutely no interest in this franchise (I think I have only seen a bit of one of the first three movies, can't remember which one), all I care is one thing. Did they kill off the holier than thou token black guy?
 
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Feanor

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Well I run from hot to cold on this one.

The parts that worked, for me, worked extremely well. But there are certainly some ugh moments. Like for so many others here, the Carrie Poppins bit. That was so poorly executed I don't know how it made through to the final edit. There are several others but like that one they tend to be moments. Some broader sorts of issues would be some of the characters, like BDT's. I didn't like his personalty quirks at all. Finn and Phasma continued on their trajectory of being oversold and underdelivered.

For the parts that worked I could write a long detailed summary but it would read an awful lot like the one @Qhue made a few pages back. I was struck in a lot of the same ways and had a lot of similar takeaways. It stirred up a few quotes in my mind as I was watching it.

"The line separating good and evil runs through every human heart" (though in the language of Star Wars it would read "light and dark"). We saw that struck out in broad relief in a few of the characters, but especially Luke. I get that Luke fans will likely come away from this thinking it an assassination of his character but that is something I have always seen in him, just never so finely realized as here. That darkness isn't limited to just anger, hatred and fear. It also includes despair. That ended up being the part of the internal darkness that Luke fell into. Despair is what sent his father down the path that he eventually walked as well (though he did pick up anger and hatred along the way). But it didn't send Luke to anything like those same places. In that I didn't see the Luke they presented as a failure of the character. Enough of the younger Luke was still there to ultimately pull him back. (And man that scene where R2 played the old Leia message put a big fuckin' lump in my throat and got me a little misty).

Admittedly it's easy to stir LOTR to my mind: "This is the hour of the Shire folk when they arise from their quiet fields to shake the towers and counsels of the Great." Rey Random. I've never been invested in Rey being descended from this or that person and the question of who she is was never that alluring to me. The amount of effort and attention that some poured into the question was always more fascinating to me than the question itself. So her being a "nobody" (if indeed she is, I don't think that was definitively answered) is perfectly acceptable to me. In fact it's preferable to a convoluted contrivance to make her the daughter or granddaughter of some notable.

I'm sure I'll have more as I chew on it for a while. And likely some additional bits I don't particularly like the flavor of.
It had several good ideas but I'm not sold on the implementation. Figured whatever theories for Rey's parentage were going to prove wrong, I'm fine with that. Joking aside, I get why they chose that direction for Luke. Also satisfied Ren killed Snoke. I anticipated that, hoped he would but did not expect it so soon. I will watch it again.
 

Xevy

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It was alright. Some good parts, some bad parts. Could've definitely gone a few different ways with Rey and Kylo I would've liked more. I'd say 35% of the movie was great feeling, 30% alright, and 35% of it cringe worthy. I didn't mind the humor, but I agree a lot of the jokes were more Big Bang Theory when they should've been more Arrested Development. The Casino scene definitely felt fucking Prequel level of unnecessary. They just wanted to cram a bunch of wacky aliens into the movie, but half ass CGI them instead of going with animatronics and suits like in The Cantina.

The only thing you got out of the casino shit was Force-boy with his broom looking to be the next Luke Skywalker. I think that combined with Rey's background being literally from nobodies is supposed to show the rise of the Force again in just the average person. Not just the Jedi royalty like the Skywalker lineage. I think they're trying to build the Jedi/Sith population within the SW universe again. Probably for profit reasons, but shit, imagine a full movie of just Jedi vs Sith battles and shit. Would be pretty boss. Like those SWTOR cinematics for expansions.
 
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jayrebb

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Star Wars: M Night Shyamalan

Twists in the story that don't make sense for the characters, and feel like they were done simply because these guys read a bunch of fan forums and wanted to be able to say they did everything different. Which would have been fine--but now all the shit I didn't like about the first film have exploded into a mess of cancer.

Jives with what I've been hearing about the Lucas Film writer's room. Too many millennial and Gen X'ers involved.

This movie sort of solidified the rumormilling. If it doesn't hit commercially I'd sack Kathleen Kennedy now while there is still a chance to get someone more senior in charge.

The mixture of the Disney/Kennedy angle plus Rian's vision seems like it was too much "Oh YEAH, well we're gonna do THIS instead!! Fuck you" involved. Creatively, you only want 1 "fuck you'er" involved. You never go 2 fuck-you's. Minus Rian or Disney?-- the script would be flipped.

Say it again. You never go 2 fuck-you's.
 
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Ossoi

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That version of Luke is pretty much exactly what an ornery old hermit who has spent the last couple decades living in seclusion after failing so dramatically. I thought Mark Hamill played it well, both as the hermit and as the disappointed master.


Yeah just like his mentor Obi Wan....Not
 

The Edge

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Hey you jaded motherfuckers. Figured I'd come back for this movie, because a Star Wars thread without me just isn't as good.

My immediate reactions coming out of the theatre were that it was a good movie that left me very much dissatisfied. A bit of a paradox. I'm on board with the gripes everyone has, but was still able to enjoy it, for the most part. The thing that grates on me the most is the treatment of Luke. I just feel bad for Mark Hamill.

Snoke was cool, but going out like that, and that quickly, sucked.

Carrie Poppins had me immediately think "oh people aren't gonna like that"

Rey looked like she put on her Freshman 15 in a few shots. Did they start filming early, like before she finished getting in shape?

I'm happy they expanded on the Force in this one. Something JJ was afraid to do.

I don't buy for one second the shit about her parents. That is total misdirection, and they definitely wanted to save some secrets for the final film.
Nobodies don't have noble Imperial accents, and are instantly good at everything they do. I think the cave scene might be trying to say she was a clone, or perhaps another case like Anakin, or a reincarnation of a force user. So it was true, from a certain point of view.

It doesn't seem like JJ and Rian shared notes. If Rey is a nobody, then why have the lightsaber call to her in TFA? Why get flashbacks when picking it up? Why hear Obi-Wan's voice? There are Force sensitives all over, as seen with that boy at the end. But that doesn't mean you're automatically god-mode like what they showed with Rey. She's definitely somebody. Perhaps the parents she knew were adoptive and not her true blood.

Yoda looked..... odd

Again, really disliked how Luke went out. He deserved better. I imagine we'll see him as a ghost in the next one.

I feel this was the weakest ending out of all the Star Wars movies. Instead of being like "I can't wait to see what happens next". I just thought "well, what now?" As much as I think Driver is doing a great job with Kylo, the character doesn't seem to be enough on his own to carry the big-baddy mantle for an entire movie. Rian seems to have left the cupboard bare.
 

jayrebb

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I just feel bad for Mark Hamill.


Likewise, but only because he learned of his derkaderkajihadmuhammad at the premiere. His demeanor has changed since the premiere and he is likely a future /ourguys/, as if he was not already, right?

Edited: language to remove potential spoilers
 
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The Edge

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Damn, I didn't know that.

I've been seeing the #notmyluke hashtag popping up today. Sad.
 
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sakkath

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Fun, but not very good
I can hardly believe that the people behind this thought that the slow motion space chase that went on for half the movie was a good idea. What a contrived situation to be in, surely they could have come up with something more believable than a) the smaller ships are fast enough to get out of range of the larger ships but not fast enough to escape b) why the hell are smaller ships faster than larger ships in SPACE??? larger ships have more space for fuel/engines. c) why can they somehow outrange lasers in SPACE? d) if hyperspace ships are so destructive why don't they use droid piloted a/x-wings to obliterate star destroyers?

Suspension of disbelief is one thing but they should at least try to come up with something more believable.

Phasma a wasted and totally pointless character
Snoke death was weak but acceptable
"that" Leia scene was bad

I did however really enjoy Luke's show of power at the end and I don't mind what happened to him. The scenes on the island I thought were pretty believable and did him some justice. I was however expecting him to be the spark that lit the rebellion by contributing to Leia's call to arms but that didn't seem to happen.
 

Vaclav

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Opinions are cool and all, but how you can think what they did to Luke's character was Great is mind-boggling. I mean, by 6 year old daughter thought it was great also...but yea I am impossible to be around IRL so that parts true

What was cool about it was:
That they dropped the whole messiah thing about him and showed us that he was flawed, just like his father but without the darkness - even pure "Jedi-ism" with all his power is still flawed - and of course his failure with Kylo, likely tempered because of his own zealousness regarding the dark side being entirely bad, rather than something that can be tempered into positive effect... I'm telling you, Episode IX is going to feed more into the brief partnering for Rey and Kylo for the trilogy's end, there's SO much foreshadowing to it in this film
 

Vaclav

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Another thing I might have missed but I was thinking about during the end:

Why did ALL the rebel ships have to slowly escape? Only the one star destroyer could track them, right? So why didn't they all just kind of jump to lightspeed in different directions? Wouldn't that have been better than letting the First Order fleet slowly pick them off? I might have missed some detail or something but I scrachted my head there.

IIRC my Star Wars physics right - for Rebel + Empire/FO ships only the massive ships carry a lightspeed engine, and the others actually hitch along with the big guy
 

Royal

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Fun, but not very good
I did however really enjoy Luke's show of power at the end and I don't mind what happened to him. The scenes on the island I thought were pretty believable and did him some justice. I was however expecting him to be the spark that lit the rebellion by contributing to Leia's call to arms but that didn't seem to happen.

But it was that spark. That's what the final scene with the kids at the stables showed us. They were recreating the battle on Crait and the legend of Luke Skywalker was working it's magic on a new generation. That was a little touch that I found extremely well done and fitting for his legacy.

I hope Episode 9 jumps forward in time and shows it bearing some fruit for the scraps of the Resistance that remain.
 

Vaclav

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one thing i got confused about, maybe someone who knows more about the backstory or something could explain
So its repeatedly said in this movie and TFA that Kylo leads the "Knights of Ren", like some sorta cosplay group. Luke even says he killed everyone at the Jedi training academy except for a few followers. Sooooo where did all those guys go? Ren probably wouldn't have been such an emo goth if he had some friends around to play Sith football with.

At first I thought maybe Snoke's bodyguards were that, but that doesn't really make any sense. It woulda been nice to see some sort of KOTOR level sith force, like a growing army of the sith that are the backbone of The First Order and snoke ignoring the "only 2 sith at a time" rule which leads to sith just always having power struggles in episode 9 but sadly we got Casino planet instead.

The Knights of Ren to my understanding are just the First Order detachments he leads. Edit: Actually reading up on Wookiepedia, apparently not, but they're separate detachments from him and Snoke apparently? Looks like they dress mostly like random scavengers in silver/black helms?!?
 

Royal

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one thing i got confused about, maybe someone who knows more about the backstory or something could explain
So its repeatedly said in this movie and TFA that Kylo leads the "Knights of Ren", like some sorta cosplay group. Luke even says he killed everyone at the Jedi training academy except for a few followers. Sooooo where did all those guys go?

Remember when Ben name dropped "The Clone Wars" in ANH? That's all the Knights of Ren are or have been so far. An interesting sounding name to give an added sense of there being more to the story than what we see written on the page. JJ just went a step further than Lucas did by showing some nameless characters that we could assume to be those mysterious Knights. I would say they are something not worth wondering too much about but by not delving into them in TLJ Johnson did hand them back to Abrams in a state that allows him to explore that question himself, since he introduced them. And he has said in the past he wouldn't mind making a movie just about them even though personally I suspect he hasn't worked out a single stitch of backstory for them.
 
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Royal

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Yeah just like his mentor Obi Wan....Not

While there's certainly some similarity to Obi-Wan to be had there is also a major point that is different. Obi-Wan successfully watched over Luke, keeping him secret and safe until the day came that he could become more than a mere moisture farmer. How do you think Ob-Wan would have ended up as a character if Luke had been discovered and captured, killed, or turned? Not as we came to know him in ANH I think.

I suspect if they do end up making that Obi-Wan movie we will see him grappling with failure (failures with Anakin, Qui-Gon, and the failures of the Jedi Order) in many of the same ways that Luke was shown here. Get your notmyben hashtags ready.
 
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Royal

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That last duel...

between Ben and Luke I thought it was intentionally obvious that Luke was a hologram/astral projection...Rian telegraphed it with those shots of Luke's feet NOT leaving any red footprints on Crait.

I gasped when I caught it and most the folks who saw it with me noticed too. There was a moment I thought he may have teleported himself after I thought he nicked Ben but he still didnt leave red footprints even as they fought.

Since you were obviously paying attention did you notice Gareth Edwards down in the trench next to the guy who tasted the salt?
 
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khorum

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Since you were obviously paying attention did you notice Gareth Edwards down in the trench next to the guy who tasted the salt?
Nah I don’t really know how Gareth Edwards looks IRL so I must’ve missed it.
 

Merrith

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Overall, I really enjoyed the movie (I caught one of the first shows Thursday night). My biggest critique is that they seemingly had a list of "moments" that they wanted in the movie and shaped the plot around those moments. My biggest praise is that they showed actual character development and growth for almost every character throughout the film. That's something I didn't know was possible in a modern Star Wars movie since the last time we saw it was in RotJ.

It's easy to hate this movie if you take it at face value and ignore the countless nuanced character moments.

Agree 100% with this. Many of the "moments" were very good, too. Just felt like they didn't know or didn't take the time to write good ways from getting moment to moment. Read one review online that said this is a bad movie wrapped around a good movie. I think that's why so many people are disappointed or "hate" it. It could have been so much better.