Step Son Joining Air Force, Advice?

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Eidal

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If he can make 99 percentile on ASVAB tell him to cancel his enlistment and fucking go to college.
99 percentile ASVAB here. The military was hugely beneficial for me. Similar to Famm's stepson, I had access to college as well as the means to pay for it but not the discipline. 4-5 years invested in the military can be construed as a "waste of time" from a min-max perspective which assumes a young man succeeds in college, receives a beneficial degree that places him into a career for which he is well-adapted. There is more than just IQ involved in this string of events.

Now I'm back in school and finding it trivially easy to maintain a high GPA. While I'm entering the job market late, I'm not overly concerned about finding a junior developer spot and working my way up from there.

Tangentially, the time I spent in Afghanistan did a great deal of subtle work for my own sense of self-worth as well as my expectations. Seeing and living within and among true misery gave me a much better perspective on life and happiness. Overall, I'm a much better man post-military than I ever would have been otherwise.
 

Dandai

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If he's interested in the military at 24 then I'd say he should do something he's actually interested in doing (preferably that thing will also translate to a civilian job post-military). That being said, I was a Unit Supply Specialist (logistics) in the army and am now an IT auditor at a large bank. If he's as intelligent and flexible as the ASVAB suggests (I got a 96 or 97th percentile myself), he can probably convince people that he's qualified for about anything.

My only recommendation would be to sign the shortest contract available in case he doesn't like it. When I joined in 2004 the army was offering 2 years active duty with 1 or 2 years in the reserves. I signed up for 3 years and liked it enough to reenlist once, but then I got out at 24 when I decided I fucking hated the military lifestyle. I'm 31 now and literally still have the a rare nightmare about missing formation or being late to a movement.

Anyway, hopefully he'll see the wisdom in your advice. In general I think the military is an ok option for young people who aren't sure what their next step is, but I don't think it's a great option for -everyone-.
 

Famm

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I realize 24 sounds kind of late for all this as well, but he's been such a late bloomer personality that I feel like there's a lot of nineteen year olds who are at a similar maturity level mentally. There's no way he'd have been able to muster the discipline for this out of high school, but now I trust he can see it through.
 

apex

Golden Knight of the Realm
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24 isn't too late. There are LOTS of older folks enlisting. His boot camp and tech school may be a pain in the ass since they treat everyone like children, but you get paid to just not screw up.

I would highly advise against going into maintenance. The OPS tempo in today's force is getting brutal and most maintainers I know either a) hate their job or b) are getting burned out from working all the time and will eventually hate their job.

As mentioned previously, intel with a TSI/SCI clearance will give him numerous job opportunities. Maintenance will give him..... more military maintenance.

I think the current enlistments are still 4 or 6 years. Do not let him do 6. Do the 4 and at that point he can evaluate if he wants to stay in or extend. I did 6 and regretted it every single day. There is much more flexibility and opportunities as a 4 y
 

Famm

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Good to know about the four or six, I'll let him know not to get talked into longer. Really sounding like intel and security clearance is the way to go.
 

Fifey

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There's no real jobs in the world where you "work with your hands" and get paid. If he wants something more practical and less bullshit than a business degree, steer him into something useful. Engineering, architecture, comp sci. Something like that. But outside of outlier circumstances there are no jobs out there for 19 year olds that pay anything worth a shit.

He just needs to sack up and do it. If he can't finish college he's just going to fuck up other things, switching tracks due to lack of motivation isn't the answer. Finding motivation is the answer.
What do you mean there are no jobs worth a shit? I work with my hands and only do 8 to 5 mon-Fri and wold make about 60grand thus year if I stayed with it. Sure it's not the million a year everyone on this board makes but it's definitelya comfortable living.
 

BrutulTM

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
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There's no real jobs in the world where you "work with your hands" and get paid.
This is 100% not true. There are plenty of electricians, pipe fitters, welders, even plumbers making $30-$40 an hour. Some of them aren't even in unions and if that's not enough for you then get a master's license and start your own company. There are tons of jobs in these fields and no kids coming out that want to do them. If you want to work with your hands there are tons of options in every part of the country right now. That said, if the kid is fucking off in college and in life in general then the military would probably be a good option for him.

BTW, as someone who has been an engineer, the jobs where you actually get to build stuff only last about 10 years and then you will spend the rest of your career as a manager or as a project manager doing paperwork and making Gant charts that everyone will put directly into the trash. I also scored very high on the ASVAB. Pretty much anyone who is college material will. It's not like getting a max score on your SAT/ACT where they are giving you scholarships to MIT for it. No disrespect, but it's a much easier exam.
 
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Famm

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I also scored very high on the ASVAB. Pretty much anyone who is college material will. It's not like getting a max score on your SAT/ACT where they are giving you scholarships to MIT for it. No disrespect, but it's a much easier exam.
Oh believe me I get that, no illusions otherwise. He said a girl next to him didn't even pass somehow...and the bar to get in as a high school graduate is so low its like underground. But being that he maxed out on it he essentially came back saying he can pick whatever they have openings for and we were a bit overwhelmed and at a loss on which direction to go with the job choices.
 

Borzak

Bronze Baron of the Realm
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This is 100% not true. There are plenty of electricians, pipe fitters, welders, even plumbers making $30-$40 an hour. Some of them aren't even in unions and if that's not enough for you then get a master's license and start your own company. There are tons of jobs in these fields and no kids coming out that want to do them. If you want to work with your hands there are tons of options in every part of the country right now. That said, if the kid is fucking off in college and in life in general then the military would probably be a good option for him.

BTW, as someone who has been an engineer, the jobs where you actually get to build stuff only last about 10 years and then you will spend the rest of your career as a manager or as a project manager doing paperwork and making Gant charts that everyone will put directly into the trash. I also scored very high on the ASVAB. Pretty much anyone who is college material will. It's not like getting a max score on your SAT/ACT where they are giving you scholarships to MIT for it. No disrespect, but it's a much easier exam.
Yeah I wanted to say the same. You can make a living with your hands, but you have to work at it. Our "tackers" start at $15-$20/hour and welders with experience who can set up a machine, weld in any posistion, the more difficult alloys and such will make $50-$60 per hour. I know pipeliners make considerably more but they have to travel. An odd deal with the better welders is they make a minimum 40 hours per week, almost like salary but they also get overtime. So $50/hour guaranteed 40 hours a week plus over time. But you have to work at upping your knowledge. It's not something you go to school for a few months and then you are done. Also will depend on your location. Commercial building construction/fabrication welders don't make a whole lot. Just currently is protected by the AWS since they don't ok robotic welding on pressure vessels or any high load structures and it wouldn't matter since it's all one off. Other than that pass a piss test pretty often, be able to pass a AWS test and have near 100% of your welds tested especiall in piping and such. Know a few people that act like having your work tested/check is an insult.

The last company I worked for had a permanent giant billboard adjacent to I35. Now hiring welders. Hard to find guys who will work, can piss a piss test,and pass a welding test for hire and then pass a signifact majority of weld test like x-rays and such.

With experience you can move into a management type posistion or become a certified AWS inspector if you have the eys for it. They require a minimum eye test both with and without correction. It must be pretty strict, as guys get older and in a spot to transistion to an inspector some lose their ability to pass the eye exam.
 
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lanludar

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Good to know about the four or six, I'll let him know not to get talked into longer. Really sounding like intel and security clearance is the way to go.
Seeing as I was a nuke in the Navy thought I would chime in here. Try to talk him out of it, some of the perks are decent but you have to enlist for 6 years min. 2 years is just school and the drop out rate and suicide rates are ridiculously high. Lets just say I had at least 4 friends try to commit suicide while there and take that as you will, that's not counting the horrendous amount who just washed out.
 

Sulrn

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Aircraft maintenance transfers fairly well to the civilian side and if he's motivated and does well on the NCO side a lot of the BS additional duties he'll be assigned along the way also transfer over (Safety officer, SHARP, EO, etc) and fast track him for management positions especially if he gets an associates or bachelors. If he's not sure what he wants to do, go with what sounds fun - if it's a fail MOS he can do his time and either transfer out and re-class or if its fun/semi-interesting he has something to motivate him anyway. I wouldn't go into hunting an MOS for a security clearance unless he's planning on getting out and specializing (into IT/IA, management/operations) or makes friends with some contractors, because it's most likely just going to lapse after getting out and not having any specific use to keep it valid. As far as school credits - I think the Navy? still wins that fight for correspondence courses/etc, but as far as converting training to college credit - he'll get as much as he's willing to volunteer for/command allows him to train. Although unless he's going medical or IT/IA it's somewhat doubtful he's going to be in a field that has much specialization that's going to get him multiple opportunities for credit beyond IET. If he has any aptitude in medicine, EMS with flight status is always fun and usually means constant short-term rotations

Only real advice to give you is to make sure you 'gut-check' him. Saying you're joining the service to figure things out/find structure/man-up/etc is all fine and good, but it's a continually dwindling % of the population that can mentally/emotionally handle even the remotely draconian ways of the chairforce much less the USMC or Army/Navy. So make sure your snowflake is heat-proofed for the inevitable moment he gets shit on by an NCO/Officer having a bad day and doesn't end up putting an entire base on lockdown or bay on suicide watch and that he's ready for long stretches of boredom and not having complete control over his life.

Sounds dumb/obvious, but you'd be amazed what doesn't get screened out at MEPS/IET in our more "inclusive" force.
 

Jensae

Molten Core Raider
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I am also a former Navy nuke, and I also had a 99 on the ASVAB, as well as acing the "nuke" test (they give you an 80 question exam before allowing you to enlist into the nuke program - or at least they did, my information is from 20 years ago).

A lot that has already been said is true - higher than normal suicide attempts (though I've not heard of any that were successful - many were just "get the hell out of this shit" half-ass attempts), very high attrition rate, and a 6 year obligation if you make it through the training program (you sign a 4 year contract when enlisting, and extend for 2 years when you finish the pipeline). (Note that you get a pretty decent bonus when enlisting - I don't know what it is now, but it was $6k when I enlisted in 1993).

Expanding on the high attrition, the enlisted nuclear training pipeline a REALLY tough training program. It's the toughest thing I've done in my life... until I did it again through the officer side, which was even harder. The amount of knowledge you have to learn in the relatively short time period is huge. After you finish, you'll just sit back amazed at how much crap you managed to shove into your brain. Many smart people failed, and would go out to the fleet without a job profession (called a "rating", or MOS in other services) if they failed before completing A-school, or as a "conventional" of that rating if they failed out of Nuclear Power School or Prototype. Additionally, there's a lot of people that got caught drinking alcohol underage, or supplying alcohol to underage sailors if they were over 21, and would go to Captain's Mast (a mini-trial where the Captain is judge and jury) and would get washed out of the program and usually demoted as well.

And, honestly, there's a lot of assholes that go nuke. It's a pretty toxic environment. You'd think having a bunch of smart people would make it better, but now you just have smart people under a lot of stress being shit on by bitter superiors and get turned into assholes.

All that said, if you can make it through this program, everything after that in your life is easy. I've not encountered a single professional job/role/task since the Navy that was challenging - as such, I stand out wherever I work, and am quickly promoted. I got a bachelors degree in Materials Science and Engineering and aced everything while watching my classmates struggle. My Master's in Comp Sci was honestly a complete joke after I got out of the Navy, and I went into software development and despite having basically no experience, I was quickly promoted and assumed tech lead and architect responsibilities. Learning a hugely complex and integrated system like a nuclear reactor makes it much easier and less intimidating to dive into complex systems elsewhere and learn them quickly - like say a legacy huge enterprise software system.

So, if he just wants to get the awesome GI Bill benefits and get paid for a few years while learning a few interesting things, but not having to deal with a huge amount of crap or have to work too hard, the Air Force is a great place to do that in - my sister did exactly that in the AF, and came out with great benefits, but hasn't had as much success professionally as I have.

If he wants to be challenged as he likely never will be again in his life,and have an uncomfortably high chance of failing, and be set up to blow everyone away after he gets out if he succeeds, then nuke would be a good way to go. Or to put it another way, this path is the "crawl through a river of shit and hope you come out clean on the other side" - I'll reiterate that it REALLY sucks going nuke, but the benefits on the flip side can be pretty substantial.
 

Kiroy

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8 years in the navy and 8 years contracting for the AF. He can join either but he'll probably get stuck on a ship for half his enlistment in the navy, which isn't fun. I'd stick with the air force. Go for anything that will give that TS/SCI and either get into an officer program and stick out the 20 for an insane retirement, or do the four right quick and get out to go to college / do contracting work for big bucks.

That said, a lot of the intel/imagery jobs are soul sucking and nothing like what you'd think or are lead to believe. Some are cool though. Assuming he's a top performer there is still a lot of luck involved getting involved in the fun stuff.
 

Brikker

Trump's Staff
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Active AF here. Actually about to head out on deployment for 6 months.

Don't let him sign up for six years. They'll try to push "promotion advancement" and stuff if he does 6 vs 4; it's bullshit. Sign up for 4.

Getting a job that requires TS/SCI is solid. However, some of those jobs suck. I'm a 1C3 and while I have a TS/SCI, the job is lame as hell. Luckily I'm out next year and got a free Master's degree out of it.

1Nxxx jobs are solid, as well. Those are your Intel jobs. Will have some interesting (if boring) experiences, get to legit see/know some secret shit, and have plenty of job opportunities as long as you maintain a stable lifestyle and the clearance (which goes hand in hand).

Feel free to PM me if you want. I've known a good mix of people from various AFSC's (career fields) over the years so I can help where I can.
 

ToeMissile

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My cousin started as an F15 crew chief, but after a couple years started having really strong allergic reactions to jet fuel. So he moved to 1N1, then into 1U0 as they split that off. Works for Northrop now managing a team of engineers. He ended up doing a total of 11 or 12 years I think.

We enlisted within a couple months of each other, I went in 2W2 for 6 years. I didn't have any plans of reenlisting from the start but decided I wanted to make NCO before I got out.
 

Bandwagon

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I joined the Air Force right after high school. I really can't see any way that my life would have been better if I didn't join. Even considering that I got into a bit of trouble, it was still a good life decision.


Anyways....I never met an aircraft mechanic that liked their job. We had B-1 bombers at my base.
SERE instructor is the coolest job I know of. Tell him to take a look at that.
 

Sylas

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Active Navy.

If he really wants aircraft mechanic, tell him to go AF. The worst day in the AF would be a lazy sunday afternoon in the Navy. I spend a lot of time in mixed units here on Okinawa between Kadena AF Base and the various Marine Corp camps and any time an airmen starts crying about how hard his job is, you should see the collective eye rolling between us and the marines.
 

Famm

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I think the Navy thing is off the table now.

Seems like going for 1N with clearance stuff or especially the 1U0 path is a good plan, going to be letting him know to look at those directions. Thanks for all the good information so far.
 

Taloo_sl

shitlord
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If he wants to "work with his hands" I'll chime in. Go into something electrical and/or engineering related.

In my specific case I was miserable and listless for 12 years not knowing what I wanted to do. Was given a shot at X as an X with (nearly)0 qualifications or experience, I've managed to learn it from the ground up and be far, far ahead of the curve expected of people with those qualifications (3 years is considered the average to be well rounded and see "everything") because I fucking LOVE MY JOB. Part electrician, part programmer, part engineer, part troubleshooter, part WHY THE FUCK DO WE STILL SUB CONTRACT OUR WIRING TO THESE PEOPLE GOD DAMN IT. Even guys who have been at it for 10-30 years run into something new on a weekly basis. I'm in the office, I'm on site being a keyboard jockey, I'm crawling through ceilings or along pipes 50ft in the air. Best of all you're given the slack to either hang yourself or do as you see fit. There's a large number of career paths you can branch into as well and honestly... the only thing to hold you back is lacking the drive or intelligence to learn shit and do it well.

The rest of my life is dogshit and no job is perfect but I'm more satisfied than I've ever been at work.
 

Kreugen

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CSB.. my cousins kid had perfect SATs (or whatever they are called now), straight A's, full ride to medical school, and knocked up his 16 year old girlfriend. Abortion was out of the question because Jesus, and her parents' ultimatum was to forget college and take care of his family right now or sign his rights away. He refused to bail because his own father abandoned him and he won't do that.

So married at 17, and off to the Navy (he just finished the first four week bit and is waiting around to get sent onward) Her father was a Navy guy and talked him into being a Nuke. I'm pretty sure it was out of spite, since the divorce rate of such a union is probably somewhere around 99.99999992%