Step Son Joining Air Force, Advice?

Famm_sl said:

He's actually wondering if he should switch to Navy and go for nuclear technician now that he's seen his scores. Also I get the impression that they actually have to have job openings for what he picks as well.

Oh and his eyes are bad so don't say pilot, heh.

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Go with whatever service offers the best enlistment package.

I joined the air force, but regretted not joining the navy.

I worked in a joint-service environment, but I was an e-3 and I worked with a bunch of e-4 and e-5s in the navy meaning they joined the same time as I did, but their job guaranteed them a promotion where they were making more money and got better benefits such as off-base housing.

I originally wanted to be a helicopter mechanic in the army, with the eventual goal of becoming a warrant officer and learning to fly helos. When I scored a 99th percentile on my asvab I was encouraged to take the DLAB and "do a harder career"

I was a 1N3 (1n332a) Spanish linguist. I absolutely hated the job, you don't have to be intelligent to be in intelligence. It's a lot of routine, boring work. It's the exact opposite of what you would think having a TSI/SCI clearance entails. It's not james bond. It's more "The Office" pushing paperwork about paper. The requirement to join the intel field is actually rather low, I think it was 40 when I enlisted. There are a LOT of REALLY smart people who do it... and then those same REALLY SMART people get out after 4 years because they were misled by people with good intentions that wanted the best for them, but thought intelligence careers required intelligence. Nope, it requires the type of person that can do the exact same task all day, every day. The type of environment that BURNS OUT anyone that would score a 99 on the asvab. And that's why, when I was in, 75% of first term enlisters got out after Their first term. (And why the navy was promoting people with 3 years of experience to E5)

I am now an air traffic controller with the FAA. I love my job MUCH more now, it's million times more social, and I actually get to use my brain (and the pay is good too, although 8 years of minimal/no pay raises has sucked, but that's every single government job). If he's wanting to work with his hands and do something meaningful, encourage him to continue his dream of becoming a mechanic, he will like it more than some boring computer job in the air force. There ARE believe it or not, a few 6 figure mechanics out there, and if he enjoys what he does and is ACTUALLY able to do anything he wants to, (which a 99 asvab suggests) he will find a way to be happy as a mechanic. There are a LOT of idiot mechanics out there, but only a few skilled ones, and the skilled ones are able to ask for a LOT of money for their specialized knowledge.

I wanted a job where I could get paid to think and solve problems, that's what mechanics do, that's what air traffic controllers do. It is NOT what intelligence in the military does.

Some jobs get paid for what they do, other jobs get paid for what you know. He should slowly work his way into getting paid for both. If money is a concern, don't let it be. A specialized mechanic (ie: aircraft engine mechanics) are NOT the same as Ted the flunkout who works at the muffler shop down the street or Bill the quick-lube guy who drains your transmission fluid instead of your engine oil because he's retarded. Don't make the same mistake that my parents made with their advice to me.

99% whatever job he chooses he's going to have serious second thoughts when he's going through basic training.

My brother was air force and it feels like he didn't change one bit.

I was NAVY / Marines (Corpsman) and my entire life has changed. I'm committed, driven, aware, goal-oriented, etc etc. I joined because I was failing out of college and I was undisciplined. Some serious ass-woopings I received helped prepare me for the future. I was mouthy and sarcastic and an asshole. I'm not as much anymore but I was worse when I was younger.

Also running 3x a week with Marines until I thought I was going to die each time. I fucking hate running. I did that for 10 years before I got out.

Now I'm 33 and my civilian friends are 10 years ahead of me in their personal careers, have roots in their city, and have spent that entire time networking with other people, businesses, and contacts.

It's something you don't really know you sacrifice until you get out.

if you have any questions about the MEPS experience, let me know, I've been doing it a long time. The ASVAB is the easy part (though it still disqualifies an appalling amount of our youth); depending on medical history, getting past the doc can be a much, much rougher experience. I haven't run the stats in a few years as that isn't my job anymore, but it used to be less than 1 in 3 people who actually make it through the doors make it to swearing in - probably even worse now as most of the services have really tightened their standards in preparation for drawdowns. I find plenty of people still have like Vietnam-era thoughts about military recruiting, that they will take any breathing body as long as they are willing. Absolutely not the case anymore, it is a long slog to get in.

Also, recruiters aren't all snake oil salesmen anymore, they've gotten better over the years as tons of suicides have forced the recruiting commands to take some of the pressure off them. Oh sure, some are still lying bastards, but most of the ones I encounter these days just tell people straight out what's up. They WILL overglorify the job though, you just have to tell your stepson that no matter what job he does for the USAF (or any service), it is going to be 98% bullshit drudgery and 2% awesome. Whether or not a person thinks that 2% makes up for the other 98% - and it very easily can - usually determines whether they are 4 and out or career.

Friday_sl said:

99% whatever job he chooses he's going to have serious second thoughts when he's going through basic training.

My brother was air force and it feels like he didn't change one bit.

I was NAVY / Marines (Corpsman) and my entire life has changed. I'm committed, driven, aware, goal-oriented, etc etc. I joined because I was failing out of college and I was undisciplined. Some serious ass-woopings I received helped prepare me for the future. I was mouthy and sarcastic and an asshole. I'm not as much anymore but I was worse when I was younger.

Also running 3x a week with Marines until I thought I was going to die each time. I fucking hate running. I did that for 10 years before I got out.

Now I'm 33 and my civilian friends are 10 years ahead of me in their personal careers, have roots in their city, and have spent that entire time networking with other people, businesses, and contacts.

It's something you don't really know you sacrifice until you get out.

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I mean you kinda fucked yourself man, 10 years is way too long to not make a career out of it assuming you weren't simultaneously getting educated

you must have re-enlisted at least once and likely more than once.

Valid point and true.

I did not want a sixth combat deployment with infantry Marines. So I walked.

There's a bit more to it than that but I was not willing to go back anymore.

Tldr; deployments were crazy when all I wanted to do was skate and go to college.

I'm a better person for it. I'm not as jaded as I would have been if I stayed in.

But yea. Don't be in the military and have any goals if a 9/11 event happens.

edit

Also don't be single athletic racial majority male

edit again

Be Filipino for everything else, instead.

Oblio_sl said:

Isn't their a ROTC option for free college now in exchange for military service after?

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Yes, but it doesn't solve the OP's issue of his step-son flunking out from lack of direction. Also, most ROTC programs don't put you on scholarship (4-year) unless you're a top performer from JROTC or a 3rd year and ready to commit (1/2 year). Additionally with the force sculpting that means it's extremely competitive unless you're at a really shitty school whose only highlight is that it has an ROTC program.

^

I've noticed a common perception among civilians that it's easy to join the military. That may have been true a decade ago, but these days, the military has more people interested than they actually need. And the officer corps is probably more competitive than it's ever been.

Yea that is a common and very misinformed thought. I've been healthy my entire life but the stupid ass MEPS MD said I had a heart murmur. They referred me to a cardiologist the same day; he confirmed a murmur/arrhythmia or some shit. I had to get other opinions (my own dime - luckily I was insured) and send all the documentation/records into the Surgeon General (of the AF) office. Took about 12 months for them to process and clear me. So basically 15ish months from walking into a recruiter to actually being accepted. THEN I had to wait for one of the jobs I wanted.

On that note, as to what TJT said: for the AF at least, you can most definitely "hold out" for a very specific job. Assuming the process is the same as it was 4.5 years ago, you make a list of 10 or so AFSC's and they'll notify you if one comes up. You can also go "Open General" and they'll offer you the first available thing. You can do like me and put down 10 jobs that offer TS clearance and sound interesting (all the Intel jobs, RPA SO, etc) or just go through the lists, find out what you can about jobs, and put what you think you might like. You can definitely wait until one of those specific jobs opens up. They won't boot you or anything if you say you don't want a job that you didn't list.

For the whole experience, I think it's great overall, especially for younger people. It can definitely impart some work ethic and gives you a major boost above non-military peers with the free schooling opportunities (for the majority of Americans). USAF at least definitely promotes school to the point where it's basically required to at least get an Associate's to make rank past E6. Realistically, you want a Bachelor's minimum if you go career enlisted. Officers are expected to have a Master's by the time they make O3, from what I've been told. USAF is very education oriented. If you're an NCO or junior enlisted and have a Bachelor's or working on a Master's, every higher ranking Officer/commander you meet will try to push you into commissioning, heh.

I'm on my first deployment atm and in a very small, lesser known area. Super cool opportunity and also gives you some first-hand experience with shit that most people don't even know is going on.

Famm_sl said:

Title says it all I guess. He got his ASVAB back and scored 99 percentile. Has the psych and physical scheduled next.

He was looking at trying to do some sort of aircraft mechanic shit before, but now that he has his score he's wondering if he should try for something higher skilled or more technical.

I know we have a lot of ex-military including AF. Would anyone have suggestions? Should he be trying to go officer training instead of enlisted? He wants to get into something skilled with a good amount of training hours for the college credit as well as having potential to get him some kind of career after he gets out.

They gave him this huge list of jobs before he tested, but we are sort of guessing when we try to decide on them. I was supposed to have a friend of a friend who is career AF getting back to me to talk to him, but haven't gotten his contact info yet so I'm coming to rerolled for advice. Thanks for any info.

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I scored a 99 on my ASVAB too, and a 31 on my ACT. I came so close to enlisting in 2003 for Officer training and going to flight school in hopes of getting into an Apache. God damn the enlistment officers did not leave me alone; they blew up my phone for about 6 months. I don't even recall how many times I had to tell them I changed my mind and wasn't interested.

I'm really, really glad I didn't. My friend joined in '03 and said it was the worst decision he ever made. He has PTSD. He was only a mechanic and never really saw combat, but he said the experience was terrible.

Not trying to denigrate people who have joined the military, but 2003 was probably the worst time to join. I wouldn't have minded being deployed to Afghanistan, but Iraq? I never really supported that war, and having to put your life on the line for a conflict that you don't even personally support seems like such a strange concept. I'm also a pretty passive person who doesn't think fighting or violence is really the best way to solve anything, so killing people would probably weigh heavily on my conscious - no matter how terrible they were. That didn't bother me when I was 18 though, but now that I'm older I think I'm glad I made the decision I made.

Though, this is something that only a couple hundred people will every be able to experience.
Apache Flying Throug Afghanistan Really Fast And Low - YouTube

Where else do you get to to see shit like that? I'm also curious if those pilots were reprimanded for flying that recklessly, probably not considering their names and ranks are on the video. Just seems like an unnecessary risk considering how expensive it is for the Army to train pilots, and how much those aircraft cost...but if they let shit like that fly, I feel like I missed out (not on the killing people part). Afghanistan is a beautiful country.

One of my best friends throughout school was the son of a pilot who died flying an Apache in South Korea. Ran into a mountain. I know that the AH-64s definitely had a habit of crashing especially when first introduced. Think there were problems with the sensors/gauges that misled pilots and made flying at night especially dangerous.

I've heard enough to tell him this from the get-go, but being a know everything young person I'm not sure how much he believes me.

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This is the main reason I said no. They'd have given me a chance and sent me off to training to be a pilot, but if I hadanythingwrong (physically)... they'd wash me out and I'd have been forced to do something that I wasn't interested in. Being a pilot is more physical than mental. Need to be alert and able to endure 8+ hour manual flights. Another friend just got his pilots license, and he said it was so much easier than he ever thought it'd be. People generally overstate just how difficult it is to fly, once you know how things work ofc.

Woolygimp_sl said:

My friend joined in '03 and said it was the worst decision he ever made. He has PTSD. He was only a mechanic and never really saw combat, but he said the experience was terrible.

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Dood thought he was a man and found out he isn't. I saw that happen on occasion. Something tells me he isn't a stellar performer in the civilian sector, either.

Eidal_sl said:

Dood thought he was a man and found out he isn't. I saw that happen on occasion. Something tells me he isn't a stellar performer in the civilian sector, either.

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No, he's actually doing quite well now. Just because he wasn't infantry doesn't mean he wasn't exposed to the danger/thought of IEDs, or see things that he wish he hadn't. Not believing in the war in the first place seems like it'd be very stressful as you're in the middle of a fucking desert not knowing who, what, and why you're helping. I'm sure there were a lot of insurgents who weren't radical Islamists. People tend to have a problem with people occupying their homes, land, and country.

I'm sure if a bunch of Iraqi soldiers were trampling all over your property, interrogating your family, and fucking with you - it might piss you off. Not to mention having to live with a possibility of a bomb going off in your neighborhood at any time.

Most of the blame goes to religion. As long as that institution exists, there's going to be needless violence and hate.

Woolygimp_sl said:

Just because he wasn't infantry doesn't mean he wasn't exposed to the danger/thought of IEDs

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This is the only part of your post that is likely to be true. The rest smells like tried and tired propaganda.

Way to piss on your "friend's" service though by making it a political bullet point.

Famm_sl said:

I assume he will have to wait for some results before signing into anything anyway, but I still want to have a talk about boot camp and stuff based on this thread. He'll probably let me know how today went later this evening though.

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At risk of sounding morbid or trying to dissuade him, one of the things I've found that separated a surprising number of people into committed/not-committed was the basics out of SERE 100 for deployment. Writing a living will/power of attorney, completing an ISOPREP (google it), updating family/pet care plan, and vehicle/home goods storage plans etc. Making it personal that you're putting the service/nation above yourself was too much for some people.