Big Phoenix
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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Step Son Joining Air Force, Advice?
- Thread starter Famm
- Start date
Go with whatever service offers the best enlistment package.
I joined the air force, but regretted not joining the navy.
I worked in a joint-service environment, but I was an e-3 and I worked with a bunch of e-4 and e-5s in the navy meaning they joined the same time as I did, but their job guaranteed them a promotion where they were making more money and got better benefits such as off-base housing.
I originally wanted to be a helicopter mechanic in the army, with the eventual goal of becoming a warrant officer and learning to fly helos. When I scored a 99th percentile on my asvab I was encouraged to take the DLAB and "do a harder career"
I was a 1N3 (1n332a) Spanish linguist. I absolutely hated the job, you don't have to be intelligent to be in intelligence. It's a lot of routine, boring work. It's the exact opposite of what you would think having a TSI/SCI clearance entails. It's not james bond. It's more "The Office" pushing paperwork about paper. The requirement to join the intel field is actually rather low, I think it was 40 when I enlisted. There are a LOT of REALLY smart people who do it... and then those same REALLY SMART people get out after 4 years because they were misled by people with good intentions that wanted the best for them, but thought intelligence careers required intelligence. Nope, it requires the type of person that can do the exact same task all day, every day. The type of environment that BURNS OUT anyone that would score a 99 on the asvab. And that's why, when I was in, 75% of first term enlisters got out after Their first term. (And why the navy was promoting people with 3 years of experience to E5)
I am now an air traffic controller with the FAA. I love my job MUCH more now, it's million times more social, and I actually get to use my brain (and the pay is good too, although 8 years of minimal/no pay raises has sucked, but that's every single government job). If he's wanting to work with his hands and do something meaningful, encourage him to continue his dream of becoming a mechanic, he will like it more than some boring computer job in the air force. There ARE believe it or not, a few 6 figure mechanics out there, and if he enjoys what he does and is ACTUALLY able to do anything he wants to, (which a 99 asvab suggests) he will find a way to be happy as a mechanic. There are a LOT of idiot mechanics out there, but only a few skilled ones, and the skilled ones are able to ask for a LOT of money for their specialized knowledge.
I wanted a job where I could get paid to think and solve problems, that's what mechanics do, that's what air traffic controllers do. It is NOT what intelligence in the military does.
Some jobs get paid for what they do, other jobs get paid for what you know. He should slowly work his way into getting paid for both. If money is a concern, don't let it be. A specialized mechanic (ie: aircraft engine mechanics) are NOT the same as Ted the flunkout who works at the muffler shop down the street or Bill the quick-lube guy who drains your transmission fluid instead of your engine oil because he's retarded. Don't make the same mistake that my parents made with their advice to me.
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
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I was in the Army for 6 years for the explicit purpose of being able to pay for university as I didn't want to be in debt/parents had no money. That being said, I am relatively certain that your ability to "lock in" a specific job for the other branches is at best slightly exaggerated.
One of the biggest appeals of the Army to me was that you can say, I will not join until I get this specific MOS (job) and the recruiter can push you. But you can just ignore all of that shit. While the other forces will put you in a category of jobs that include the job you want. But there is no guarantee you get that specific one. All recruiters of any branch will try and push you to take whatever is highest in demand within their branch. This changes every quarter/year depending on numbers.
The Air Force actually required you get get college credits to move up the enlisted ladder. Same for officers to a degree so they actually harp/enable you to get education. Getting college credits for training is usually just total fucking bullshit credits from some shitty community college that don't really apply to anything. So take that with a grain of salt. Comparatively being enlisted in the Army I was outright prevented from pursuing higher education by my idiotic, "who the fuck needs college" superiors in the 82nd Airborne.
There are VERY few MOS/job schools that actually give you meaningful college credits for completing them. When they do it is mostly electives, which is totally fine as most degrees require like 70 hours of idiotic electives anyway.
My story is that I was sent to the Army interrogation school back in 04. I also was sent to the Language School to learn Arabic. Which I ended up using a metric fuckton of over the years I spent in the ME. It was actually a really cool job working in HUMINT at that particular time.
The school is an actually accredited university that netted me like 80 credit hours alone. I also took a shit load of CLEP tests because they are free, retarded (Pass/Fail, 51% = pass, GPA neutral) and count for all of the usual suspects in terms of mandatory classes. Like Calc I/II, Writing, Chemistry 101, etc. All state level schools must take them as well since they're made by the same people who make the SAT exam. The difference is only in what CLEP test counts for what class. But, any idiot, especially the 99 ASVAB types can pas 50% of a test of multiple choice questions.
This allowed me to walk into university with 140+ credit hours and finish out two degrees in two years, never owed a penny.
As far as what to do while in. The Air Force, or any branch for that matter isn't exactly hard. Shut up, do as your told, move along. Don't be a total bitch and "keep your head down" the entire time because you need to be at least a little noticed to get promotions and the better opportunities in the first place. Volunteer for shit, be on time, don't slack ass 100% of the time and life is pretty easy.
That being said, I got out and now work in software development. As I always liked programming. So I didn't exactly use what I learned while I was active. But it was certainly interesting and I had a good time doing it.
One of the biggest appeals of the Army to me was that you can say, I will not join until I get this specific MOS (job) and the recruiter can push you. But you can just ignore all of that shit. While the other forces will put you in a category of jobs that include the job you want. But there is no guarantee you get that specific one. All recruiters of any branch will try and push you to take whatever is highest in demand within their branch. This changes every quarter/year depending on numbers.
The Air Force actually required you get get college credits to move up the enlisted ladder. Same for officers to a degree so they actually harp/enable you to get education. Getting college credits for training is usually just total fucking bullshit credits from some shitty community college that don't really apply to anything. So take that with a grain of salt. Comparatively being enlisted in the Army I was outright prevented from pursuing higher education by my idiotic, "who the fuck needs college" superiors in the 82nd Airborne.
There are VERY few MOS/job schools that actually give you meaningful college credits for completing them. When they do it is mostly electives, which is totally fine as most degrees require like 70 hours of idiotic electives anyway.
My story is that I was sent to the Army interrogation school back in 04. I also was sent to the Language School to learn Arabic. Which I ended up using a metric fuckton of over the years I spent in the ME. It was actually a really cool job working in HUMINT at that particular time.
The school is an actually accredited university that netted me like 80 credit hours alone. I also took a shit load of CLEP tests because they are free, retarded (Pass/Fail, 51% = pass, GPA neutral) and count for all of the usual suspects in terms of mandatory classes. Like Calc I/II, Writing, Chemistry 101, etc. All state level schools must take them as well since they're made by the same people who make the SAT exam. The difference is only in what CLEP test counts for what class. But, any idiot, especially the 99 ASVAB types can pas 50% of a test of multiple choice questions.
This allowed me to walk into university with 140+ credit hours and finish out two degrees in two years, never owed a penny.
As far as what to do while in. The Air Force, or any branch for that matter isn't exactly hard. Shut up, do as your told, move along. Don't be a total bitch and "keep your head down" the entire time because you need to be at least a little noticed to get promotions and the better opportunities in the first place. Volunteer for shit, be on time, don't slack ass 100% of the time and life is pretty easy.
That being said, I got out and now work in software development. As I always liked programming. So I didn't exactly use what I learned while I was active. But it was certainly interesting and I had a good time doing it.
Friday
Lord Nagafen Raider
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99% whatever job he chooses he's going to have serious second thoughts when he's going through basic training.
My brother was air force and it feels like he didn't change one bit.
I was NAVY / Marines (Corpsman) and my entire life has changed. I'm committed, driven, aware, goal-oriented, etc etc. I joined because I was failing out of college and I was undisciplined. Some serious ass-woopings I received helped prepare me for the future. I was mouthy and sarcastic and an asshole. I'm not as much anymore but I was worse when I was younger.
Also running 3x a week with Marines until I thought I was going to die each time. I fucking hate running. I did that for 10 years before I got out.
Now I'm 33 and my civilian friends are 10 years ahead of me in their personal careers, have roots in their city, and have spent that entire time networking with other people, businesses, and contacts.
It's something you don't really know you sacrifice until you get out.
My brother was air force and it feels like he didn't change one bit.
I was NAVY / Marines (Corpsman) and my entire life has changed. I'm committed, driven, aware, goal-oriented, etc etc. I joined because I was failing out of college and I was undisciplined. Some serious ass-woopings I received helped prepare me for the future. I was mouthy and sarcastic and an asshole. I'm not as much anymore but I was worse when I was younger.
Also running 3x a week with Marines until I thought I was going to die each time. I fucking hate running. I did that for 10 years before I got out.
Now I'm 33 and my civilian friends are 10 years ahead of me in their personal careers, have roots in their city, and have spent that entire time networking with other people, businesses, and contacts.
It's something you don't really know you sacrifice until you get out.
BrotherWu
MAGA
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I've been at a few places that liked hiring former military electronics technicians. I'm sure there are some duds but they have a good reputation and it's "working with your hands" in more of an office environment. Pay can be pretty good for good techs. They are in demand.
Faltigoth
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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if you have any questions about the MEPS experience, let me know, I've been doing it a long time. The ASVAB is the easy part (though it still disqualifies an appalling amount of our youth); depending on medical history, getting past the doc can be a much, much rougher experience. I haven't run the stats in a few years as that isn't my job anymore, but it used to be less than 1 in 3 people who actually make it through the doors make it to swearing in - probably even worse now as most of the services have really tightened their standards in preparation for drawdowns. I find plenty of people still have like Vietnam-era thoughts about military recruiting, that they will take any breathing body as long as they are willing. Absolutely not the case anymore, it is a long slog to get in.
Also, recruiters aren't all snake oil salesmen anymore, they've gotten better over the years as tons of suicides have forced the recruiting commands to take some of the pressure off them. Oh sure, some are still lying bastards, but most of the ones I encounter these days just tell people straight out what's up. They WILL overglorify the job though, you just have to tell your stepson that no matter what job he does for the USAF (or any service), it is going to be 98% bullshit drudgery and 2% awesome. Whether or not a person thinks that 2% makes up for the other 98% - and it very easily can - usually determines whether they are 4 and out or career.
Also, recruiters aren't all snake oil salesmen anymore, they've gotten better over the years as tons of suicides have forced the recruiting commands to take some of the pressure off them. Oh sure, some are still lying bastards, but most of the ones I encounter these days just tell people straight out what's up. They WILL overglorify the job though, you just have to tell your stepson that no matter what job he does for the USAF (or any service), it is going to be 98% bullshit drudgery and 2% awesome. Whether or not a person thinks that 2% makes up for the other 98% - and it very easily can - usually determines whether they are 4 and out or career.
Swagdaddy
There is a war going on over control of your mind
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I mean you kinda fucked yourself man, 10 years is way too long to not make a career out of it assuming you weren't simultaneously getting educated
you must have re-enlisted at least once and likely more than once.
TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Bad timing Friday! I did two, but they were basically back to back because "dwell time" had not been invented yet. 2006-2007. Then immediately again from 2007-2008 for the Troop Surge.
My job was fucking sweet though and by the second deployment I had so much autonomy to my position that nobody really fucked with me. Completely had my own schedule as long as I was producing (DIIR reports) my superiors didn't care or question anything. Was actually a pretty good time.
I did end up being the facilitator for contracts and shit as some of my superiors didn't trust the L1 Interpreters for some reason. Those guys are usually pretty stand up.
My job was fucking sweet though and by the second deployment I had so much autonomy to my position that nobody really fucked with me. Completely had my own schedule as long as I was producing (DIIR reports) my superiors didn't care or question anything. Was actually a pretty good time.
I did end up being the facilitator for contracts and shit as some of my superiors didn't trust the L1 Interpreters for some reason. Those guys are usually pretty stand up.
Friday
Lord Nagafen Raider
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I'm a better person for it. I'm not as jaded as I would have been if I stayed in.
But yea. Don't be in the military and have any goals if a 9/11 event happens.
edit
Also don't be single athletic racial majority male
edit again
Be Filipino for everything else, instead.
But yea. Don't be in the military and have any goals if a 9/11 event happens.
edit
Also don't be single athletic racial majority male
edit again
Be Filipino for everything else, instead.
Sulrn
Deuces
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Yes, but it doesn't solve the OP's issue of his step-son flunking out from lack of direction. Also, most ROTC programs don't put you on scholarship (4-year) unless you're a top performer from JROTC or a 3rd year and ready to commit (1/2 year). Additionally with the force sculpting that means it's extremely competitive unless you're at a really shitty school whose only highlight is that it has an ROTC program.
Eidal
Molten Core Raider
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^
I've noticed a common perception among civilians that it's easy to join the military. That may have been true a decade ago, but these days, the military has more people interested than they actually need. And the officer corps is probably more competitive than it's ever been.
I've noticed a common perception among civilians that it's easy to join the military. That may have been true a decade ago, but these days, the military has more people interested than they actually need. And the officer corps is probably more competitive than it's ever been.
Brikker
Trump's Staff
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Yea that is a common and very misinformed thought. I've been healthy my entire life but the stupid ass MEPS MD said I had a heart murmur. They referred me to a cardiologist the same day; he confirmed a murmur/arrhythmia or some shit. I had to get other opinions (my own dime - luckily I was insured) and send all the documentation/records into the Surgeon General (of the AF) office. Took about 12 months for them to process and clear me. So basically 15ish months from walking into a recruiter to actually being accepted. THEN I had to wait for one of the jobs I wanted.
On that note, as to what TJT said: for the AF at least, you can most definitely "hold out" for a very specific job. Assuming the process is the same as it was 4.5 years ago, you make a list of 10 or so AFSC's and they'll notify you if one comes up. You can also go "Open General" and they'll offer you the first available thing. You can do like me and put down 10 jobs that offer TS clearance and sound interesting (all the Intel jobs, RPA SO, etc) or just go through the lists, find out what you can about jobs, and put what you think you might like. You can definitely wait until one of those specific jobs opens up. They won't boot you or anything if you say you don't want a job that you didn't list.
For the whole experience, I think it's great overall, especially for younger people. It can definitely impart some work ethic and gives you a major boost above non-military peers with the free schooling opportunities (for the majority of Americans). USAF at least definitely promotes school to the point where it's basically required to at least get an Associate's to make rank past E6. Realistically, you want a Bachelor's minimum if you go career enlisted. Officers are expected to have a Master's by the time they make O3, from what I've been told. USAF is very education oriented. If you're an NCO or junior enlisted and have a Bachelor's or working on a Master's, every higher ranking Officer/commander you meet will try to push you into commissioning, heh.
I'm on my first deployment atm and in a very small, lesser known area. Super cool opportunity and also gives you some first-hand experience with shit that most people don't even know is going on.
On that note, as to what TJT said: for the AF at least, you can most definitely "hold out" for a very specific job. Assuming the process is the same as it was 4.5 years ago, you make a list of 10 or so AFSC's and they'll notify you if one comes up. You can also go "Open General" and they'll offer you the first available thing. You can do like me and put down 10 jobs that offer TS clearance and sound interesting (all the Intel jobs, RPA SO, etc) or just go through the lists, find out what you can about jobs, and put what you think you might like. You can definitely wait until one of those specific jobs opens up. They won't boot you or anything if you say you don't want a job that you didn't list.
For the whole experience, I think it's great overall, especially for younger people. It can definitely impart some work ethic and gives you a major boost above non-military peers with the free schooling opportunities (for the majority of Americans). USAF at least definitely promotes school to the point where it's basically required to at least get an Associate's to make rank past E6. Realistically, you want a Bachelor's minimum if you go career enlisted. Officers are expected to have a Master's by the time they make O3, from what I've been told. USAF is very education oriented. If you're an NCO or junior enlisted and have a Bachelor's or working on a Master's, every higher ranking Officer/commander you meet will try to push you into commissioning, heh.
I'm on my first deployment atm and in a very small, lesser known area. Super cool opportunity and also gives you some first-hand experience with shit that most people don't even know is going on.
Woolygimp
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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I scored a 99 on my ASVAB too, and a 31 on my ACT. I came so close to enlisting in 2003 for Officer training and going to flight school in hopes of getting into an Apache. God damn the enlistment officers did not leave me alone; they blew up my phone for about 6 months. I don't even recall how many times I had to tell them I changed my mind and wasn't interested.
I'm really, really glad I didn't. My friend joined in '03 and said it was the worst decision he ever made. He has PTSD. He was only a mechanic and never really saw combat, but he said the experience was terrible.
Not trying to denigrate people who have joined the military, but 2003 was probably the worst time to join. I wouldn't have minded being deployed to Afghanistan, but Iraq? I never really supported that war, and having to put your life on the line for a conflict that you don't even personally support seems like such a strange concept. I'm also a pretty passive person who doesn't think fighting or violence is really the best way to solve anything, so killing people would probably weigh heavily on my conscious - no matter how terrible they were. That didn't bother me when I was 18 though, but now that I'm older I think I'm glad I made the decision I made.
Though, this is something that only a couple hundred people will every be able to experience.
Apache Flying Throug Afghanistan Really Fast And Low - YouTube
Where else do you get to to see shit like that? I'm also curious if those pilots were reprimanded for flying that recklessly, probably not considering their names and ranks are on the video. Just seems like an unnecessary risk considering how expensive it is for the Army to train pilots, and how much those aircraft cost...but if they let shit like that fly, I feel like I missed out (not on the killing people part). Afghanistan is a beautiful country.
One of my best friends throughout school was the son of a pilot who died flying an Apache in South Korea. Ran into a mountain. I know that the AH-64s definitely had a habit of crashing especially when first introduced. Think there were problems with the sensors/gauges that misled pilots and made flying at night especially dangerous.
This is the main reason I said no. They'd have given me a chance and sent me off to training to be a pilot, but if I hadanythingwrong (physically)... they'd wash me out and I'd have been forced to do something that I wasn't interested in. Being a pilot is more physical than mental. Need to be alert and able to endure 8+ hour manual flights. Another friend just got his pilots license, and he said it was so much easier than he ever thought it'd be. People generally overstate just how difficult it is to fly, once you know how things work ofc.
Famm
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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He has his psych and physical today. He went to a friend's directly after work yesterday since he's off today, so I didn't get a chance to talk to him. I don't know if there's anything more happening today or when he lists his job preferences, but at least I know he's thinking the intel jobs and that sensor operator position for drones, and security clearance positions.
I assume he will have to wait for some results before signing into anything anyway, but I still want to have a talk about boot camp and stuff based on this thread. He'll probably let me know how today went later this evening though.
I assume he will have to wait for some results before signing into anything anyway, but I still want to have a talk about boot camp and stuff based on this thread. He'll probably let me know how today went later this evening though.
Eidal
Molten Core Raider
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Dood thought he was a man and found out he isn't. I saw that happen on occasion. Something tells me he isn't a stellar performer in the civilian sector, either.
Woolygimp
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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No, he's actually doing quite well now. Just because he wasn't infantry doesn't mean he wasn't exposed to the danger/thought of IEDs, or see things that he wish he hadn't. Not believing in the war in the first place seems like it'd be very stressful as you're in the middle of a fucking desert not knowing who, what, and why you're helping. I'm sure there were a lot of insurgents who weren't radical Islamists. People tend to have a problem with people occupying their homes, land, and country.
I'm sure if a bunch of Iraqi soldiers were trampling all over your property, interrogating your family, and fucking with you - it might piss you off. Not to mention having to live with a possibility of a bomb going off in your neighborhood at any time.
Most of the blame goes to religion. As long as that institution exists, there's going to be needless violence and hate.
Big Phoenix
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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What the fuck? Fuck him. Fucking pussy should of never of joined. Bet he loves that "disability" pay.
Sulrn
Deuces
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This is the only part of your post that is likely to be true. The rest smells like tried and tired propaganda.
Way to piss on your "friend's" service though by making it a political bullet point.
At risk of sounding morbid or trying to dissuade him, one of the things I've found that separated a surprising number of people into committed/not-committed was the basics out of SERE 100 for deployment. Writing a living will/power of attorney, completing an ISOPREP (google it), updating family/pet care plan, and vehicle/home goods storage plans etc. Making it personal that you're putting the service/nation above yourself was too much for some people.