The Batman

Chukzombi · Dec 26, 2020

chaos said:
So was Hollywood blacklisting. They did all that in response to the threat of government censorship and then used it as a tool for decades to gatekeep the industry. Its fucked up.

look, Hollywood has a commie problem. they have had a commie problem since the beginning of cinema. when you really think about it, its really not a problem with Hollywood, being a commie in Hollywood is a feature. the government rightly didnt want america to be subverted with pinko lib propoganda. when the "blacklisting" stopped, the commie shit came out of the woodwork. some of those people deserved more than being blacklisted. they deserved to be sent back to Kruschev where they belonged. the shit going on in comics was a bit different, but the focus was the same. stop pushing freaky deaky shit or we will make you stop. the comic companies decided yeah, wtf are we doing? these are kid comics. so thats why you got "the code'. it wasnt censorship. if you want to tell your mother in law to go fuck herself you usually dont. did you censor yourself or were you gauging the cost of doing such a thing?

chaos · Dec 27, 2020

Chukzombi said:
look, Hollywood has a commie problem. they have had a commie problem since the beginning of cinema. when you really think about it, its really not a problem with Hollywood, being a commie in Hollywood is a feature. the government rightly didnt want america to be subverted with pinko lib propoganda. when the "blacklisting" stopped, the commie shit came out of the woodwork. some of those people deserved more than being blacklisted. they deserved to be sent back to Kruschev where they belonged. the shit going on in comics was a bit different, but the focus was the same. stop pushing freaky deaky shit or we will make you stop. the comic companies decided yeah, wtf are we doing? these are kid comics. so thats why you got "the code'. it wasnt censorship. if you want to tell your mother in law to go fuck herself you usually dont. did you censor yourself or were you gauging the cost of doing such a thing?

Idk, my experience is that anyone who supports censorship out of political expediency is probably a faggot. I expected better from you, Big Chuk.

Chukzombi · Dec 27, 2020

chaos said:
Idk, my experience is that anyone who supports censorship out of political expediency is probably a faggot. I expected better from you, Big Chuk.

nothing was censored. making kid friendly comics for kids was fine. playboy wasnt censored, neither were its adult themed comics. which were aimed at adults

Jozu · Dec 27, 2020

Jogress or Nigress, not sure which one is funnier lmao.

chaos · Dec 27, 2020

Chukzombi said:
nothing was censored. making kid friendly comics for kids was fine. playboy wasnt censored, neither were its adult themed comics. which were aimed at adults

You're being a retarded asshole. They censored hundreds of titles, including most famously EC Comics leading to horror comics dying out for 40 years until comics started booming in the late 80s/early 90s and comics storefronts made independent publishing feasible for some. Even then, high profile independent publishers fought constant, ongoing battles against them. They shaped the industry, similar to what the MPAA does and like they want to do with gaming in recent decades, and used their hold on the distribution chain to mandate content in books. That's censorship.

Chukzombi · Dec 27, 2020

chaos said:
You're being a retarded asshole. They censored hundreds of titles, including most famously EC Comics leading to horror comics dying out for 40 years until comics started booming in the late 80s/early 90s and comics storefronts made independent publishing feasible for some. Even then, high profile independent publishers fought constant, ongoing battles against them. They shaped the industry, similar to what the MPAA does and like they want to do with gaming in recent decades, and used their hold on the distribution chain to mandate content in books. That's censorship.

call me what you want, but there was no censorship, the editorial board of these comic book companies decided they preferred making money with comics made for the kids they were targeting. take it up with them or their surviving relatives. there were adult comic books, they didnt have to follow a code and some failed while others thrived like Dark Horse. as i said, this wasnt censorship. it was an editorial decision.

chaos · Dec 27, 2020

Chukzombi said:
call me what you want, but there was no censorship, the editorial board of these comic book companies decided they preferred making money with comics made for the kids they were targeting. take it up with them or their surviving relatives. there were adult comic books, they didnt have to follow a code and some failed while others thrived like Dark Horse. as i said, this wasnt censorship. it was an editorial decision.

No comic book could be distributed without the CCA approval, which they would not give unless content guidelines were met. If you can't publish your shit because the industry heavyweights got together and decided to rig the distribution channels and mandate content guidelines, thats censorship. Dark Horse didnt fucking exist until the late 80s and wasnt successful until the 90s comic boom when they actually had a distribution path. You don't even know wtf you are talking about bro. The last thing I'd expect to see here is mealy mouthed defenses of industry wide censorship to suit political bullshit but here we are i guess .

Chukzombi · Dec 27, 2020

chaos said:
No comic book could be distributed without the CCA approval, which they would not give unless content guidelines were met. If you can't publish your shit because the industry heavyweights got together and decided to rig the distribution channels and mandate content guidelines, thats censorship. Dark Horse didnt fucking exist until the late 80s and wasnt successful until the 90s comic boom when they actually had a distribution path. You don't even know wtf you are talking about bro. The last thing I'd expect to see here is mealy mouthed defenses of industry wide censorship to suit political bullshit but here we are i guess .

youve been sold a bill of goods. there were counter culture comics in the 60s and 70s such as Zap Comix.
Mad Magazine was edgier back then. so was Cracked and Crazy. lots of adult friendly comics were able to be successful without being explicit. as i said. editorial decision.

chaos · Dec 27, 2020

Chukzombi said:
youve been sold a bill of goods. there were counter culture comics in the 60s and 70s such as Zap Comix.
Mad Magazine was edgier back then. so was Cracked and Crazy. lots of adult friendly comics were able to be successful without being explicit. as i said. editorial decision.

Those were underground comics that distributors wouldn't carry, due to CCA restrictions. You don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

Mudcrush Durtfeet · Dec 27, 2020

chaos said:
No comic book could be distributed without the CCA approval, which they would not give unless content guidelines were met. If you can't publish your shit because the industry heavyweights got together and decided to rig the distribution channels and mandate content guidelines, thats censorship. Dark Horse didnt fucking exist until the late 80s and wasnt successful until the 90s comic boom when they actually had a distribution path. You don't even know wtf you are talking about bro. The last thing I'd expect to see here is mealy mouthed defenses of industry wide censorship to suit political bullshit but here we are i guess .

Don't feed the troll.

chaos · Dec 27, 2020

Mudcrush Durtfeet said:
Don't feed the troll.

My only weakness... retards...

Chukzombi · Dec 27, 2020

chaos said:
My only weakness... retards...

dont flatter yourself man. you more than earned your year round pass on the short bus the last 5 years. go fuck yourself.

chaos · Dec 27, 2020

Chukzombi said:
dont flatter yourself man. you more than earned your year round pass on the short bus the last 5 years. go fuck yourself.

What, because I dont agree with your stupid politics? What does that have to do with this conversation here? You're just handwaving decades of censorship because "lol pinko libs and commies". Fucking embarrassing.

Sterling · Dec 27, 2020

Yeah, the comics code and MPAA is similar in some respects, but albums with parental advisory labels still got distributed to most places. Obviously there are some examples where this wasn't 100 percent the case, but it largely was. With comics, without the CCA label most places that sold comics just wouldn't sell your comic. You'd lose 90 percent of your shelfspace. Once there was an explosion of comic specialty stores in the 80s and 90s it became less of an issue. You can call it an editorial decision, but it wasn't much of a decision when it's literally either you do it or you don't sell your books.

Chukzombi · Dec 28, 2020

still havent heard about what was censored. oh wow, the most beloved era in comic book history was under the comic book code? oh wow, all the top superhero movies were based on those same "censored" comics? wait, all the shit comic movies come from the "looser" era? how can this be? nah, it has to be this code that somehow stopped creativity because i couldnt see plastic man's cock grow 20 meters in a comic panel when i was 10 years old. this code was nothing but a placebo for parents so they would allow Little Timmy to read them. if there was no code and it was a freeforall that it is now. then Little Timmy wouldnt have read shit and the comic book industry would have collapsed in the 60s instead of right now when everything is stunning and brave.

when i was starting at my first job in the 90s . i worked 2 doors down from a comic book shop. my boss was a mom and her kids would ask her all the time to get them different comics. i remember one time she came up to me in a bad mood and she told me that the comic book guy called her a prude because she yelled at him about selling comics to kids with all kinds of gore on the cover. i guess she wanted me to tell her she wasnt a prude, i really couldnt care less. i was getting my Batman Dark Knight comics from there on the regular and they were pretty tame in comparison, but they were decent stories, the gory comics were just a gimmick to lure kids into buying them because edgy. so i said, nah, you cool. those comics suck and i wouldnt buy them even as an adult. needless to say. little Mathew didnt get his Leatherface comic or whateverfuck it was back then.

Sterling · Dec 28, 2020

It wasn't direct censorship as much as it was restrictions on content. Imagine if any movie that was rated PG-13 or worse was relegated to the back woods the way X and NC-17 movies were? That would create a scenario where very, very few movies like that would be made. Comic Code would preclude many of the later mutant or batman stories or most of Image comics for example.

Chukzombi · Dec 28, 2020

Sterling said:
It wasn't direct censorship as much as it was restrictions on content. Imagine if any movie that was rated PG-13 or worse was relegated to the back woods the way X and NC-17 movies were? That would create a scenario where very, very few movies like that would be made. Comic Code would preclude many of the later mutant or batman stories or most of Image comics for example.

PG-13 and R ratings were a complete joke when i was a kid. i imagine nothing has changed since then. like how do you card a 10 yr old for a pg-13 movie? who is checking IDs on a 15 yr old for an R movie? nobody ever checked anything at any theater i have gone to. the thing with those nc-17 films was it used to be called an X rating. X rating was the porno rating. so if you went to see an X rated movie you were some kind of pervert. nobody wanted to be seen coming out of an X rated movie theater because word travels fast and before you know it, the whole town is going to shun you. the thing isnt some arbitrary rating, its the fact that those movies wont sell and because they wont sell. nobody will carry them. its about money. always about money. its why theaters wont show really long films unless its a huge blockbuster like LOTR or an MCU film that they know lots of people will pay to see.

when i was a kid i saw Indiana Jones: Temple of Doom opening weekend. it was PG. theater full of kids, we all clapped and cheered, a few of us stuck around to watch it again. some parents freaked out and took their kids from there when things started getting gory. i was alone, because it was PG and the parents thought it was good wholesome fun so they dropped me off. turns out everyone (parents) threw a hissy fit over it. Spielberg himself offered a segui between PG and R. thats how we got PG-13. guess what happened after that? absolutely nothing. Freddy, Jason, Michael Myers, i saw all their movies in the same theater full of the same kids. nobody gave two shits as long as the money kept rolling in. parents were soothed with the silly ratings so the crisis was averted. they tried to make the X rating cool by calling it NC-17. nobody was fooled though, so NC-17 didnt go over so well. it also meant that they would have to hire more pimply face teenagers to check IDs for films they themselves were not allowed to go see. too much hassle so it didnt pan out.

TLDR
the only censorship is from parents (customers, remember, kids dont have money). parents dont buy the comics, they dont get bought and nobody wins. stick a label on it that says this product is ok for kids to consume . then thats just fine.

Sterling · Dec 28, 2020

Chukzombi said:
PG-13 and R ratings were a complete joke when i was a kid. i imagine nothing has changed since then. like how do you card a 10 yr old for a pg-13 movie? who is checking IDs on a 15 yr old for an R movie? nobody ever checked anything at any theater i have gone to. the thing with those nc-17 films was it used to be called an X rating. X rating was the porno rating. so if you went to see an X rated movie you were some kind of pervert. nobody wanted to be seen coming out of an X rated movie theater because word travels fast and before you know it, the whole town is going to shun you. the thing isnt some arbitrary rating, its the fact that those movies wont sell and because they wont sell. nobody will carry them. its about money. always about money. its why theaters wont show really long films unless its a huge blockbuster like LOTR or an MCU film that they know lots of people will pay to see.

when i was a kid i saw Indiana Jones: Temple of Doom opening weekend. it was PG. theater full of kids, we all clapped and cheered, a few of us stuck around to watch it again. some parents freaked out and took their kids from there when things started getting gory. i was alone, because it was PG and the parents thought it was good wholesome fun so they dropped me off. turns out everyone (parents) threw a hissy fit over it. Spielberg himself offered a segui between PG and R. thats how we got PG-13. guess what happened after that? absolutely nothing. Freddy, Jason, Michael Myers, i saw all their movies in the same theater full of the same kids. nobody gave two shits as long as the money kept rolling in. parents were soothed with the silly ratings so the crisis was averted. they tried to make the X rating cool by calling it NC-17. nobody was fooled though, so NC-17 didnt go over so well. it also meant that they would have to hire more pimply face teenagers to check IDs for films they themselves were not allowed to go see. too much hassle so it didnt pan out.

TLDR
the only censorship is from parents (customers, remember, kids dont have money). parents dont buy the comics, they dont get bought and nobody wins. stick a label on it that says this product is ok for kids to consume . then thats just fine.

Temple of Doom was PG-13. In fact the rating was specifically invented because of that movie.

And you're right those ratings were largely meaningless which was my point. They wouldn't be worthless if movie theaters literally wouldn't show them and you'd have to go to the porno theater to go watch Red Dawn or Weird Science. That's the difference between CCA and MPAA and the movie industry. CCA was something that actually affected distribution. Without the relaxing of it in the 80s and eventual basic dissolution of it you'd have no Spawn, Harley Quinn, Cable, Punisher, Deadpool, etc. 90 percent of Frank Miller's work wouldn't exist It wasn't about parents not buying the comics, it was about parents not being able to buy them because they weren't sold anywhere parents would go. You had to go to the 1 comic shop in your city, not the newsstand or department store where 95 percent of comics were sold back then.

Chukzombi · Dec 28, 2020

Sterling said:
Temple of Doom was PG-13. In fact the rating was specifically invented because of that movie.

And you're right those ratings were largely meaningless which was my point. They wouldn't be worthless if movie theaters literally wouldn't show them and you'd have to go to the porno theater to go watch Red Dawn or Weird Science. That's the difference between CCA and MPAA and the movie industry. CCA was something that actually affected distribution. Without the relaxing of it in the 80s and eventual basic dissolution of it you'd have no Spawn, Harley Quinn, Cable, Punisher, Deadpool, etc. 90 percent of Frank Miller's work wouldn't exist It wasn't about parents not buying the comics, it was about parents not being able to buy them because they weren't sold anywhere parents would go. You had to go to the 1 comic shop in your city, not the newsstand or department store where 95 percent of comics were sold back then.

Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

in response to some of the more violent sequences in the film, and with similar complaints about Gremlins, Spielberg suggested that the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) alter its rating system by introducing an intermediary between the PG and R ratings. The MPAA concurred, and a new PG-13 rating was introduced two months after the film's release.[3][a]

i only ever saw those comics in the comic book shops back then. the department stores were still selling the old regular batman/superman/spiderman/archie comics. i could only find Dark Knight in the comic book shop, because they were specialty comics. not mainstream. thats not because of the code. it was because they were "new" and not as popular as the established comics. i'm still not buying the whole censorship thing. its not censorship if nobody is buying it. and nobody buying it because it could be naughty and mom doesnt want their kids reading that stuff.

Chukzombi · Dec 28, 2020

this is becoming a circular argument. chicken or the egg. did this "censorship" happen because parents complained about Vault of Horror and Tales From The Crypt which led to a comic book code being put in place to assure those parents it was ok for them to buy their comics? or was it some distribution company just being assholes and not wanting anything uncoded in their stores because they hate money? you have to decide for yourselves. me perosnally, i stick with where the money talks and bullshit walks. make any kind of stories you want, just dont curse or be dirty or gory so little billy doesnt tell their parents to eat shit or scream in the night because the monsters from EC were coming to get him.

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