The Big Bad Console Thread - Sway your Station with an Xboner !

  • Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!



    Go here and give us your nominations!
    Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!

DickTrickle

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
13,406
15,565
If there's one thing that's super important to me when watchingvideo game reviews, it definitely has to be what gender the person identifies with and expresses. Not a single thing could be more crucial.
 

hodj

Vox Populi Jihadi
<Silver Donator>
31,672
18,377
Hey, he knocked a point off his GTA5 review because it was "politically muddled and profoundly mysogynistic" so if anyone is making his gender identity a topic of concern, it would be only himself.

Grand Theft Auto V Review - GameSpot.com

I can't figure out what he means by politically muddled except that he expects the franchise to only knock one point of view or side, and since they knocked his own several times, thus the message must be "muddled".

Even though there is no message, its all satire and parody.
 

DickTrickle

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
13,406
15,565
How is pointing that out making his gender identity a topic of concern? You could identify as entirely man or woman with the matching biological equipment and think something is mysognistic (or not) -- I really don't see what gender identity directly has to do with misogyny. Unless she actually references her own experiences with gender identity issues or claims the game is transphobic, she's not doing anything to make it a topic.
 

hodj

Vox Populi Jihadi
<Silver Donator>
31,672
18,377
Hypersensivity to an issue that doesn't exist tends to be a pretty strong example of latent biases.

Like a Freudian slip
 

DickTrickle

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
13,406
15,565
Okay, maybe, but she's not the first reviewer I've seen that expressed concern about misogynistic scenes or tones, so you're only making that jump because of the information bias that is created by you knowing she's a tranny. If it was a legit woman I doubt you'd think, "Hmm, gender identity issues are probably fueling this." So, point being, it's a big reach to say she made it a topic of concern.
 

hodj

Vox Populi Jihadi
<Silver Donator>
31,672
18,377
I haven't read every review in the world but I haven't personally seen anyone else have a problem with GTA5 being mysogynistic. And why is it that GTA 5 is mysogynistic, but....none of the others are?

And I don't think its a big leap, because he's done it with other games too, from my understanding. Injecting his personal political points of view into a game review is, in my eyes, stepping beyond the point of a game review in a negative way. If someone was screaming Tomb Raider sucks because it ignores males and is therefore whatever the opposite of mysogynistic is, then I would have similar problems with that reviewer's opinion.

Just review the game on its merits and leave the real world gender politics bullshit in the real world.

Also I only posted that shit because I thought it was funny with the ongoing conversation, not to get into some deep philosophical discussion of the merits of transgendered game reviewers.

But if in some alternate universe where Gamespot would hire some radical religious right winger to review a game like GTA5, and that reviewer started talking about how evil and sinful the game was with hookers and drug use, rampant murder, etc. then I would have a problem with that review as well.

I just really think games are games, they're like movies, meant to entertain, and should be free from having to pander to real world political bullshit at pretty much any time, ever.
 

DickTrickle

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
13,406
15,565
Others have complained about it in past GTA games. Always a pretty minority view, but not non-existent.

Also, the game heavily satirizes the real world, especially political and cultural points of view, so I don't see why reacting to that as a critic is wrong. That's part of the job of being a critic, to look deeper. It's not just about judging game mechanics. Especially nowadays, as games invest far more in story and they move (ever so slightly) closer to movies (at least for some games). If it's part of the game, it should be allowed to be part of the review. In fact, most of the reviews I've read do address ideas of GTA5's theme and overarching narrative, so most critics already do this, just not about this particular topic.

Also, the term you want is misandry for male hate. But if you want to rally to that banner, you can't ignore the context of gaming as a whole or the type of story being told. Tomb Raider is really a personal, individual story, whereas GTA5 is much bigger than that (one of the reasons why I think it's a great game). I think she probably misses some of the satire, but satire can exist on a very fuzzy line.
 

hodj

Vox Populi Jihadi
<Silver Donator>
31,672
18,377
I don't disagree with your point of view in broad strokes.

I do wonder when you say "If you want to rally to that banner" if you think my post was saying that video games are more misandric (thanks by the way I couldn't pull the word outta my head when I made my post above) than they are mysogynistic. I want to make sure you know I wasn't saying that. I was saying that whether someone were complaining about mysogyny or misandry or whatever in a game, it would bother me either way.

I just want games to be art, and the artistic vision to be uncompromised by fear of real world political bullshit. Especially since the whole point of something like GTA is to parody our life.

It just seems to me that he completely missed the point that the creators of GTA probably agree with his world view, our society is mysogynistic, and that the game's absurd levels of mysogyny are meant to reflect back at us and get us thinking. Same thing with the extreme levels of violence. They're in the game because it is a parody of how Americans view the world, which is to say we're generally very antagonistic, militaristic and prone to violence.
 

The Ancient_sl

shitlord
7,386
16
None of that precludes the fact that a reviewer might be turned off by it and that's perfectly acceptable regardless of their gender or lack thereof.
 

hodj

Vox Populi Jihadi
<Silver Donator>
31,672
18,377
If a reviewer is turned off by the biggest console hit of the year because they perceived there to be a slant to the game that doesn't actually exist, then I would say that it can reasonably be taken as evidence that they've allowed their political and personal persuasions taint their view of the art. They have a right to do that, but then I have a right to not listen to their reviews.

And if their antics and biased reviews turn off a significant amount of customers, then they will be out of a job, but I'll still be enjoying a great artistic game.

Same goes with any entertainment critic.
 

khalid

Unelected Mod
14,071
6,775
They're in the game because it is a parody of how Americans view the world, which is to say we're generally very antagonistic, militaristic and prone to violence.
I disagree in a way. I think its a parody of how pop culture views Americans through the lens of movies and entertainment. I don't think the average american at all has the views expressed in GTA V. However, if you look at popular movies, video games, then yes, its definitely a parody of that. Or is that what you meant?
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
47,388
80,836
I never thought of GTAV being a parody. No more than Twinkies are a parody of the USA and diabetus.
 

Elerion

N00b
735
46
Hey, he knocked a point off his GTA5 review because it was "politically muddled and profoundly mysogynistic" so if anyone is making his gender identity a topic of concern, it would be only himself.

Grand Theft Auto V Review - GameSpot.com

I can't figure out what he means by politically muddled except that he expects the franchise to only knock one point of view or side, and since they knocked his own several times, thus the message must be "muddled".

Even though there is no message, its all satire and parody.
review_sl said:
Perhaps most troubling is a mission in which you're instructed to torture a man. Trevor states that torture doesn't work, and the person ordering the torture is an arrogant and corrupt government official, suggesting that the scene is meant to be a critical commentary on the United States' use of waterboarding and other "enhanced interrogation" methods. But the fact that Trevor (and you, if you want to progress through the story) tortures the man regardless, and that he does end up spilling more information as a result, sends a very different message. These moments of hypocrisy and inconsistency diminish the otherwise strong characters; it feels like they are leaping into situations not because it's what they would actually want to do, but because the mission design demands that they must.
Maybe she should have replayed the scene to understand it better before she started writing the review. The torture victim says the truth the entire time. The FIB asks him for the location of an unnamed big shot terrorist. He says he just installs AV equipment. He doesn't even know what the fuck the FIB are talking about until they, mid-torture, blurt out the name of the guy they are looking for, and the victim realizes he actually has installed AV equipment at that guy's place, and immediately tell them the address. From that point on he gradually starts remembering details about this random guy he did one job for, while being tortured until he passes out. The torture is completely and utterly pointless, and only serves to make it harder to get information out of the victim. Trevor then points this out in the dialogue after the torture, carefully explaining how torture's only real purpose is to satisfy the torturer's need for violence/revenge/whatever.

If she actually took the time to listen to the dialogue, she'd see it's probably the most clear cut anti-torture sequence we've seen in a video game to date.

Okay, maybe, but she's not the first reviewer I've seen that expressed concern about misogynistic scenes or tones, so you're only making that jump because of the information bias that is created by you knowing she's a tranny. If it was a legit woman I doubt you'd think, "Hmm, gender identity issues are probably fueling this." So, point being, it's a big reach to say she made it a topic of concern.
No, this reviewer goes off the deep end.

review_sl said:
There's so much more to say about GTA V. In series tradition, it has an eclectic assortment of radio stations featuring great songs from numerous genres and eras. In a break with series tradition, it also has an excellent ambient score of its own that lends missions more cinematic flavor. On a less positive note, it's deeply frustrating that, while its central and supporting male characters are flawed and complex characters, with a few extremely minor exceptions (such as the aforementioned optional getaway driver), GTA V has little room for women except to portray them as strippers, prostitutes, long-suffering wives, humorless girlfriends and goofy, new-age feminists we're meant to laugh at.
This is such a hilariously one-sided view that I'm amazed she was able to type it. There are exactly 3 "flawed and complex" characters in the game, the three protagonists (if that). Having three male protagonists in a crime buddy storyline does not make the game misogynistic.

Every other character in the game has absolutely zero depth, male or female. They are all extremes. They are all meant to be laughed at (or in a few cases - felt sorry for). Outside of the main characters, there is zero difference in how the game treats males and females. And I really don't think anyone wants every game to have a token female protagonist just to avoid being called misogynistic.

review_sl said:
Characters constantly spout lines that glorify male sexuality while demeaning women, and the billboards and radio stations of the world reinforce this misogyny, with ads that equate manhood with sleek sports cars while encouraging women to purchase a fragrance that will make them "smell like a bitch." Yes, these are exaggerations of misogynistic undercurrents in our own society, but not satirical ones. With nothing in the narrative to underscore how insane and wrong this is, all the game does is reinforce and celebrate sexism. The beauty of cruising in the sun-kissed Los Santos hills while listening to "Higher Love" by Steve Winwood turns sour really quick when a voice comes on the radio that talks about using a woman as a urinal.
What, those aren't satirical exaggerations? Then what are they? The game literally makes fun of every major stereotype I can think of, should it have skipped making fun of these aspects of society just to avoid being misogynistic? Fuck that.

It is obvious that the reviewer has an increased sensitivity to sexism and/or gender-based stereotypes. It's fairly likely that this stems from her own gender issues. So yes, by channeling that sensitivity into the review she DOES make her gender identity a topic of concern, whether it's intentionally or not.
 

darkko_sl

shitlord
231
0
Can anyone tell me if I'll be able to play my copy of GTA5 on the PS4? I'm getting conflicting information when searching around. Some sites say yes, some say no. Thanks.