The E-cig Thread

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Izo

Izo

Tranny Chaser
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Azrayne_sl said:
God Izo, can't believe you're still doing this. Getting to the point where I'm fairly sure you're trolling, nobody could be oblivious enough to act like such a sanctimonious asshole for so long somewhere where people so clearly want them to piss off. Unless, have you ever been diagnosed with aspergers, or some kind of high functioning autism disorder?

<pic>

Anyway, here's a dose of irony for you. Despite absolutely no intention of doing so, my e-cig seems to have lead to me quitting after all (at least for the time being). I've been adjusting the nicotine level of the juice down over the last month or two, just because I prefer the effect of lighter, more constant redosing, but the atomizers, which have been giving me trouble for a while, both finally gave out last week. I managed to get a few sputtering drags out of it here and there for a few days, then chewed some leftover nicotine gum once or twice, then woke up and realized that other than feeling a little more fatigued and foggy than usual, I don't really feel like any nicotine.

I've been meaning to order a new atomizer for a month or so, but I've kept putting it off due to laziness/not wanting to spend the money, and now I honestly don't give much of a crap. I'll probably end up smoking again next time I go out and get drunk, but in the meantime it's interesting how much easier quitting the e-cig was.
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Tarrant_sl said:
Izo isn't shit posting and he's attempting to stay on topic. I know people aren't a fan of him in here but until (if he even does) he starts causing problems, he's free to engage you all with questions. He's not causing problems with you at the moment so please don't try to do so with him.
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Asperger's, really? Thanks for the ad hominem, Azrayne. Remind me again how I'm the one off topic
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You're right about something being ironic though. You posting anecdotal evidence showing how your lazy non-dedication to nicotine cessation, by your own words, most likely will lead you to smoke again - and thus be back at square one. If only we had existing products with proven efficacy freely available at any pharmacy. Sigh.
 
Azrayne

Azrayne

Irenicus did nothing wrong
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You're right about something being ironic though. You posting anecdotal evidence showing how your lazy non-dedication to nicotine cessation, by your own words, most likely will lead you to smoke again - and thus be back at square one. If only we had existing products with proven efficacy freely available at any pharmacy. Sigh.
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How is gum or a patch any more efficacious than an e-cig once I've already ceased all nicotine intake? The route of administration I used to quit (albeit not intentionally) doesn't seem like it would make any difference at that point.
 
Eomer

Eomer

Trakanon Raider
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Sabbat_sl said:
What the fuck?

Since when have cessation devices/drugs or replacements been free at a pharmacy?
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You realize that "freely available" does not mean free, right? It means readily accessible or available without a prescription in that context.
 
mkopec

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
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Izo_sl said:
Hi again, Tragedy.
" E-cigarettes, vaping your way to quitting...". Whether anyone chooses to be dishonest about the later part, the quitting, is entirely on them, not me, no matter how unpopular my opinion on the matter is.
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I did quit smoking. Have not had one cig since spring. So who is being dishonest? That was my whole point, quitting smoking. Anecdotal or not I feel better, my lungs feel better and my wheezing is gone. And I still get to have my nicotine.

You keep saying that the patch or gum is better, do you have any proof?
 
Khane

Khane

Got something right about marriage
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Damnit, this thread is information overload. I just want to buy a unit and some tobacco juice so I can stop spending so damn much money cigarettes but I'm at a loss for what I should buy.

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN
 
mkopec

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
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A couple of good variable voltage batteries like the ego twist and a good tank like the protank, oh and a usb charger. I would recommend to start with. then upgrade from there. Get a couple of batteries so you have a backup when one is charging. They also have "passthrough" batteries which will allow you to plug them in the USB and vape at the same time. Get the brand name ones like joycee because there are a ton of knockoffs that are cheap and might fall apart.

But, yeah, for starters a good couple of batteries and a good tank will serve you well. keep in mind the bigger the batteries MAH value the longer it will allow you to vape before recharging. I had the 900mah ego twists and they usually lasted me like 3/4 of the day depending on the day of course, hehe.

Then later when you decide that you like it and wanna stick with it, you can throw some more money at it with a good battery (mod) like the provari or kamry or wahtever which ae more durable and have actual replacement batteries they you can charge.

rrr_img_48831.jpg
rrr_img_48832.jpg
 
Sabbat

Sabbat

Trakanon Raider
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Eomer_sl said:
You realize that "freely available" does not mean free, right? It means readily accessible or available without a prescription in that context.
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You realise that Izo's major complaint about this thread (and his subsequent shitting up of said thread) is the word "quitting" in the thread title, right?
 
Izo

Izo

Tranny Chaser
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Azrayne_sl said:
How is gum or a patch any more efficacious than an e-cig once I've already ceased all nicotine intake? The route of administration I used to quit (albeit not intentionally) doesn't seem like it would make any difference at that point.
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Right. For the 1 millionth time. Here we go again:
1) Nicotine is carcinogenic and addictive.
2) Withdrawal symptoms and drug tolerance are linked to relapse.
3) You build tolerance with exposure.
4) Dosage and application scheme matters greatly for successful nicotine cessation.

There is a reason gradual and consistent dosage lowering is more successful than simply quitting. This is best achieved by using products that are well documented, thoroughly tested (long term studies f.inst.), and precisely dosed. When I say 'best' it's implied it's built on massive double blinded RCT's on the products vs placebo - aka the gold standard of testing whether shit works or not - aka is it better after the nominal standard of 1 year: are you a smoker or are you smoke free?
This is not so with e-cigs - you're not guaranteed a specific dosage, nor is there a consistency to nicotine exposure inter- and intravape. The cognitive dissonance is you feel in control with the e-cig. The device and the juice it's not something a physician has forced on you, and most non-vapors don't know what it is you're doing with all the various gizmo's -tanks, fluids, shit. It empowers you on a false basis, and it all adds to the cognitive dissonance. This is also one of many reasons why it's easier to 'switch' from cigarettes to vapors, than from cigarettes to any cessation product. We're not even touching on the feel, smell or smoke like nature of the product - or even the vape itself. As well as this may sound to anyone wishing to quit smoking, there is a back side to this. An obvious reason why you might relapse from having used the vapor as both cessation device and recreation device is precisely that - the dichotomous usage. However much you feel you're in control, your brain associates the device with both. When you're 'feeling low' or you're otherwise vulnerable, you might be tempted to use it with nicotine again. This is classic conditioning and a variant of referred pain. Google Pavlov's dog if you want more insight into how psychology affects your physiology - aka the dogs salivary glands are activated by the mere sound of the bell.

rrr_img_48888.gif


Ask any meth addict when he's 'sick' whether he's more more motivated for quitting or scoring more dope this instant. Ask him if he associates, say, a needle with his 'junk' or simply yet another physician's tool. Mmmmm?

The conditioning is one of many reasons it's not great to associate a cessation product with recreational usage. With this is mind, it should be blatantly obvious why nicotine cessation products are, for the most part, somewhere between marketable and directly silly looking (aka the plastic inhaler for instance). I hope it's more obvious as to why e-cigs with their customized appearances and functions aren't all bliss. A good cessation device will focus on you switching from tobacco/nicotine abuse to nicotine abuse only (the product) and help you get rid of the nicotine abuse in a safe and balanced pace as to avoid relapse.
 
Izo

Izo

Tranny Chaser
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mkopec_sl said:
I did quit smoking. Have not had one cig since spring. So who is being dishonest? That was my whole point, quitting smoking. Anecdotal or not I feel better, my lungs feel better and my wheezing is gone. And I still get to have my nicotine.

You keep saying that the patch or gum is better, do you have any proof?
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You're taking my post dedicated to TragedyAnn out of context and applying it to your situation. That's not cool. Who is being dishonest now?
smile.png

To be fair, it could be misinterpreted, you did, so I'll answer your question as best as I can, sure.

In scientific settings, one measure successful smoking cessation after a year, typically. That excludes existing nicotine uptake products - aka those sold by your pharmacy - but includes tobacco products, naturally. The problem is, nicotine on it's own is also carcinogenic and extremely damaging to f.inst. your heart and vascular system. That combined with non-control of what you're stuffing your vapor with, added with no long term studies on this. In essence you're arguing you're healthy by using unhealthy drugs - one with known carcinogenic properties. I believe there is a legal term for trying to circumvent the intent of a law by a technicality - it's much the same here. You might be free of many known carcinogenic substances and airway irritants, but you're in no position to say you're drug free or healthy - which is one of the goals of smoke cessation - health. I say it again HEALTH. Shame on you for implying otherwise.

As per logic, the burden of proof is not on me to prove that a new method is better or worse than existing - that is for vendors, those who make the product, the FDA and science. The reason is the principle of precaution - we know a known carcinogenic, nicotine, is involved. So far no sane country with a functioning FDA have approved nicotine for e-vapors - more research is required to make this a safe product used as NRT (Nicotine Replacement Therapy). That is precisely why I keep saying 'we, scientists, don't know, yet' and it follows 'how can YOU, laymen, know or be so certain?' That's the cognitive dissonance speaking again - you FEEL it's safer, ergo it MUST be safer. That assumption can serve you well, it's partly why we're here, evolutionary speaking. We are, however, talking about synthetic products, marketing and MONEY - cigarettes is tobacco enhanced for addiction, e-vapors are enhanced for the same. In short, you're shooting yourself in the foot here, and you don't even realize it. It's a sad thing to behold
frown.png


I will direct you to the very latest on ENDS (Electronic Nicotine Delivery Systems) from WHO:
WHO | WHO Study Group on Tobacco Product Regulation (TobReg)
Clicking on the latest publication, 955 brings you here:
WHO | WHO Study Group on Tobacco Product Regulation</br>Report on the Scientific Basis of Tobacco Product Regulation
Clicking the download brings you this:
http://whqlibdoc.who.int/publication...209557_eng.pdf
Read it all, if not the passage here
2.4 Substances in addition to nicotine
The United States Food and Drug Administration recently analysed the
chemicals in 18 varieties of ENDS cartridges marketed with two different brands of ENDS and found significant variation in contents and deliveries. Several contained ?detectable levels of nitrosamines, tobacco-specific com-pounds known to cause cancer? (1). The Administration?s testing also re-vealed that the nicotine levels were inconsistent with the information on the cartridge labels and that some cartridges that were stated not to contain nico-tine actually did.
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Here:
3.2 Carcinogens present in smokeless tobacco
Smokeless tobacco has been classified by the International Agency for Re-search on Cancer (IARC) as ?carcinogenic to humans? (Group 1) (3). There are, however, many forms of smokeless tobacco, which differ considerably in their composition and carcinogenic potential. Available information indicates the presence of 28 potential or known arcinogens (5).
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And here:
3.3 Tobacco-specific nitrosamines and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons
Tobacco-specific nitrosamines (TSNA) are formed from tobacco alka-loids and nitrosating agents, such as nitrite. They are found only in tobacco products. Seven TSNA have been detected in smokeless tobacco: NNN,N'-nitrosoanabasine, N'-nitrosoanatabine, NNK, 4-(methylnitrosamino)-1-(3-pyridyl)-1-butanol, 1-(methylnitrosamino)-1-(3-pyridyl)-4-butanol and 4-(N-nitrosomethylamino)-4-(3-pyridyl)butyric acid. Of these, NNN and NNK are considered the most important because of the levels at which they occur
in smokeless tobacco and their carcinogenic potency.
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Is it becoming clear to you, that it is not merely Izo who's telling you that what you're doing is not safe - it's from WHO.World Health Organization. It takes a great cognitive dissonance to rationalize that away, my friend. T'is all I'm saying.
 
Izo

Izo

Tranny Chaser
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Extra goodies:
http://www.bfr.bund.de/cm/349/liquid...-to-health.pdf
For those who are not familiar with BRF, it's a well known and renowned german state controlled institute for risk assessment.
?Smoking? of e-cigarettes results in the evaporation of so-called liquids, which represent solutions of certain ingredients. The liquid is heated by means of a battery-operated mechanism, which allows to inhale the vapour. The users of e-cigarettes can either replace the liquid-filled cartridges or refill them by their own. Little is known about the ingredients of the liquids. The Federal Institute for Risk Assessment (BfR) has assessed typical ingredients regarding of their health effects.
Smokers of e-cigarettes do not inhale the characteristic carcinogenic combustion products and substances known to be present in tobacco smoke. Nevertheless, e-cigarettes can not considered safe with respect to health effects. An important risk factor is posed by inhaling nicotine. Some pharmacological effects of nicotine ? such as increased blood pressure and accelerated heart frequency, excessive production of gastric acid, increased adrenaline release ? are often discussed as being associated with chronic diseases. In the future but not yet it might be possible to reliably assess the long-term health effects of e-cigarettes.
Another possible risk factor of e-cigarettes is acute nicotine poisoning in adults through excessive use of e-cigarettes or in children as a result of incautious handling of the liquids (e.g. swallowing).
According to the assessment of BfR, e-smoking might also trigger nicotine dependency which might subsequently facilitate smoking of tobacco.
Moreover, additional ingredients of the liquids such as fumigation agents (propylene glycol, glycerine), chemical additives, added pharmacologically active compounds, various scentand aroma substances (e.g. menthol, linalool), and contaminants can pose health risks. Propylene glycol, for example, can lead to irritation of the upper respiratory tract and thus might affect proper lung function. Again, little is known about the long-term effects of chronic exposure to propylene glycol. In addition, there are indications in the literature that some e-cigarette brands release carcinogenic aldehydes.
Furthermore, risks for passive smokers cannot be ruled out on the basis of the current knowledge. Considering a wide product spectrum of liquids as well as virtually unlimited
possibilities for e-smokers to regroup active ingredients and concentrates, the nature of the substances that are inhaled and exhaled remain often unclear. It is therefore difficult to identify pollutants that contribute to the contamination of indoor air. The BfR therefore recommends that e-cigarettes should be treated like conventional cigarettes in non-smoking areas and that e-smoking is banned in such zones.
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How's your cognitive dissonance treating you today, vapor?
 
Khane

Khane

Got something right about marriage
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14,313
mkopec_sl said:
A couple of good variable voltage batteries like the ego twist and a good tank like the protank, oh and a usb charger. I would recommend to start with. then upgrade from there. Get a couple of batteries so you have a backup when one is charging. They also have "passthrough" batteries which will allow you to plug them in the USB and vape at the same time. Get the brand name ones like joycee because there are a ton of knockoffs that are cheap and might fall apart.

But, yeah, for starters a good couple of batteries and a good tank will serve you well. keep in mind the bigger the batteries MAH value the longer it will allow you to vape before recharging. I had the 900mah ego twists and they usually lasted me like 3/4 of the day depending on the day of course, hehe.

Then later when you decide that you like it and wanna stick with it, you can throw some more money at it with a good battery (mod) like the provari or kamry or wahtever which ae more durable and have actual replacement batteries they you can charge.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. You mentioned the protank so I went to their sight and found a starter kit here:

ProVari Variable Voltage Electronic Cigarette Starter Kit V2.5

Is that any good? I don't see any info on the MAH of the batteries, just that they are 18490 AW high drain batteries. Is it worthwhile to get that kit or should I just get the protank and then get everything else piecemeal?
 
Neki

Neki

Molten Core Raider
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Izo, I'm lost under your mountains of texts

What are you trying to say?
 
Neki

Neki

Molten Core Raider
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397
Khane_sl said:
Thanks for the info. You mentioned the protank so I went to their sight and found a starter kit here:

ProVari Variable Voltage Electronic Cigarette Starter Kit V2.5

Is that any good? I don't see any info on the MAH of the batteries, just that they are 18490 AW high drain batteries. Is it worthwhile to get that kit or should I just get the protank and then get everything else piecemeal?
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The Provari is probably the best and most reliable piece of kit available on the market right now. It is made in US so quality control is of a high standard but as you can see, you will need to pay a premium for that. IMO it is worth it as I am using one along with a Protank 2 and it really is a quality piece of kit.

It uses IMR 18490 rechargeable batteries which I think are around 900 MAH. I advise you can 2-3 of them along with a charger so you can keep the rest charging whilst you use one in your device. Provape recommends you use IMR but I think you can use other brands too at your own risk of voiding the warranty.
 
Izo

Izo

Tranny Chaser
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Sabbat_sl said:
Poor Izo all butthurt.
Why do you persist in fucking up this thread Izo?
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Tarrant_sl said:
Izo isn't shit posting and he's attempting to stay on topic. I know people aren't a fan of him in here but until (if he even does) he starts causing problems, he's free to engage you all with questions. He's not causing problems with you at the moment so please don't try to do so with him.
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How about you start posting on topic instead of trying to criticize someone smarter than you, Mr. I-don't-know-what-freely-available-means. Talk about thread crapping...

Let me help you get started:
Do you smoke, vape or otherwise abuse nicotine? What are your thoughts on e-cigs?
 
S

Superhiro

Silver Knight of the Realm
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I used to think people smoking e-cigs looked like fucking retards, but its getting to a point that I need to reevaluate. I generally enjoy smoking, its nice to have a cup of coffee and a cig while reading. However, I'm almost 30, have a real job, and its just getting to be a pain in the ass being a smoker. I hate sneaking out of work, trying to hide the smell, and all that bs. I've also been working out a lot more lately, and I'm definitely plateauing because of the smoking. I'm going to give e-cigs a shot. I guess, short-term I just want to stop smoking regular cigs, not have to worry about the smell, not feel rushed to take cig breaks at work, etc etc. Maybe it'll help me eventually cut nicotine, but that's not my primary goal.

So, after work today I'm going to check out a smoke shop in my neighborhood.

p.s. fuck Izo
 
Neki

Neki

Molten Core Raider
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Okay

I used to smoke cigarettes, about 10 a day for about 15 years. Tried nicotine patches many times to quit but didn't work. Switched over to use E-cigs approximately 3 months ago and haven't touched a cigarette in that time. Started with 18mg/ml of nicotine in the liquid and now down to 6mg with the aim of eventually going down to 0mg. I mix my own juices.

E-cig is a device which is an alternative to smoking. Some use it as a way to replace smoking traditional cigarettes by still satisfy the nicotine addiction but without the thousands of harmful chemicals found in a normal cigarette. Although more long term study needs to be done on E-cigs and health effects, it is hard to deny that at present time, E-cigs are the lesser of two evils when compared to cigarettes.

There are those who look to use the device to stop smoking and eventually be free of nicotine dependence. Everyone is different so it is very possible that this method wouldn't work for you but there are also many people (like me) who find it a more successful way towards stopping smoking than other methods presently on the market.

Would I recommend someone to E-cigs if they have never smoked before? No
Would I recommend someone to switch to E-cigs if they are smoking now? Yes
Would vaping E-cigs eventually lead to nicotine independence? No unless you are actively making an effort trying to use it for such.

Make no mistake, E-cigs is just another method to deliver nicotine into your body to satisfy an addiction. I used it as a way to try and wean myself off this addiction and it is proving successful thus far.
 
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