The E-cig Thread

Izo_sl said:

Dosage dictates toxicity. You cannot be certain of the dosage in the juice

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Sure you can.

Gaige_sl said:

Sure you can.

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Not on the same level of precision as with something premanufactured and predosed, no. You'd have to test and ascertain the concentration for each and every bottle - the regular Joe has no means of doing that. It's not an accurate way of decreasing dosage with the aim of nicotine cessation.

This is a product review thread.

We should be free to discuss the products mentioned without getting a lecture about the dangers of nicotine. Unless those lectures about the products themselves. A warning against certain types of vaporisers, brands of juice to avoid, product recalls, terrible service, shady transactions and the like.

If getting people to quit was Izo's true intention, he'd have left this thread ages ago, and never posted in the first place. The reason why it's now obvious that Izo's intention isn't to get people to quit is simple. Talking shit to people that are looking at alternatives ways to quit, or continue to use in apossiblysafer fashion isn't helping. All he is doing is reinforcing that there is no hope, and continuing to use regular smokes is just all round better. It's less drama, it's not going to change a thing and there's no additional guilt/hope/emotional attachments to round out the trip.

You are actively hurting the process you claim to champion.

Which means you're not trying to champion a clean quit, you're just being a cunt. Fuck off, and make your own thread about the dangers of nicotine.

Izo_sl said:

Not on the same level of precision as with something premanufactured and predosed, no. You'd have to test and ascertain the concentration for each and every bottle - the regular Joe has no means of doing that. It's not an accurate way of decreasing dosage with the aim of nicotine cessation.

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Shut the fuck up, you aren't a doctor. And stop talking like a thesaurus just to make yourself sound smart, cause it's really transparent and actually makes you look even stupider.

Dosage dictates toxicity. You cannot be certain of the dosage in the juice - and you're prone to mishandling and misusing the nicotine juice. The toxicology of nicotine is well known. So is its carcinogenicity. Perhaps you've been reading the wrong papers?

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So everybody should stop drinking coffee and restrict their caffeine intake to tablet form, since you cannot be certain of the dose of caffeine in your coffee?

The lethal dose of nicotine is 30 - 60mg. I find it highly unlikely that the dose in these juices is so variable that someone is likely to inhale 60mg of nicotine in one puff, if it's even possible to fit that much in at once. The idea that someone is going to drop dead inhaling nicotine from these things is absurd. If it did happen, it would be some kind of freak accident, and not proof that e-cigs as they're usually used are unsafe.

mkopec_sl said:

Because from what I read its 1000x better than smoking a regular cig. Obviously if I were not a smoker I would not be doing this. And I already feel better. I nolonger wheeze, Im getting my smell back and overall just feel better.

BTW why was this thread moved? Im not reviewing products here?

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Sabbat_sl said:

This is a product review thread.

We should be free to discuss the products mentioned without getting a lecture about the dangers of nicotine. Unless those lectures about the products themselves. A warning against certain types of vaporisers, brands of juice to avoid, product recalls, terrible service, shady transactions and the like.

If getting people to quit was Izo's true intention, he'd have left this thread ages ago, and never posted in the first place. The reason why it's now obvious that Izo's intention isn't to get people to quit is simple. Talking shit to people that are looking at alternatives ways to quit, or continue to use in apossiblysafer fashion isn't helping. All he is doing is reinforcing that there is no hope, and continuing to use regular smokes is just all round better. It's less drama, it's not going to change a thing and there's no additional guilt/hope/emotional attachments to round out the trip.

You are actively hurting the process you claim to champion.

Which means you're not trying to champion a clean quit, you're just being a cunt. Fuck off, and make your own thread about the dangers of nicotine.

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The cognitive dissonance is strong in you
1) Look at the thread title
2) Look at what OP writes - I've bolded it for you.
3) Look at what you write as a critique of my postings.

Now that we've determined the premise of your critique is wrong, let's move on.
Your slippery slope arguments of how I'm hurting the process has no scientific basis. You're confusing not getting what you want with being wronged. It's not the same.

To put it blunt: Discuss vapers and their usage all you want - nowhere am I preventing or opposing that - quite the opposite - I encourage you to argue and tell us why you use it - and post good links / sources for your stuff so mkopec can update OP.
I would hope you don't delude yourself about the efficacy and health benefits of the device and especially the juice - we know nicotine is lethal. Otherwise, from a health standpoint this would simply be a 'junkies sharing tips-thread'. There are plenty of those out there - none are sanctioned by any CDC or proven to help anyone. It seems to me it is those who come here, to this thread, discussing ways of enhancing the vapor experience whom are dishonest in their quest - it has little to do with hope or wanting to quit. If they did, they'd go see a physician and make an effort.

Regarding hope: I understand very well what you say - I used to smoke, stated so in one of the very first post in this thread - but I disagree about the premise. Different approaches work on different people in different stages of nicotine abuse. Some don't even realize nicotine is a lethal and carcinogenic substance - this is one of many attack points towards cessation. Some use smoking as a crutch etc etc. E-cigs are not 'the only hope left' simply because the device is fancy or new. Cognitive dissonance - we've been over this before.

I'd recommend any combination of the self help books posted earlier, combined with adequate educated guidance, exercise and controlled and documented cessation devices. Trying to self medicate with the vapors have, so far, no proven efficacy beyond anecdotes. If they DO work for you, cool - not arguing with that. If you get stuck using them in the process - not so cool, we don't know enough about them yet.

Gavinrad_sl said:

Shut the fuck up, you aren't a doctor. And stop talking like a thesaurus just to make yourself sound smart, cause it's really transparent and actually makes you look even stupider.

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I'm at your service for your easy +net hunt - bash on me all you want, you're most welcome. My background is not relevant - we've been over this. Let me know when you contribute to the core issues here. Let me point you to the thread title:
"E-cigarettes, vaping your way to quitting..."
Start there? Thanks.

Edit: Last time I checked 'more stupid' is preferred over 'stupider'. Meh, I hope that wasn't the joke

Trollface_sl said:

Izo, can you determine the dangers of cellphone signal. I wait for your reply.

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You're in the wrong thread. I'll help you with your feeble derail though - as that particular subject has been studied for more than 20 years now:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_...ion_and_health
http://www.pubmed.org.
Dosage is important - Check the SAR value next time you buy one. Perhaps you'd even wonder why it's mentioned in the first place. Thanks for playing

Azrayne_sl said:

So everybody should stop drinking coffee and restrict their caffeine intake to tablet form, since you cannot be certain of the dose of caffeine in your coffee?

The lethal dose of nicotine is 30 - 60mg. I find it highly unlikely that the dose in these juices is so variable that someone is likely to inhale 60mg of nicotine in one puff, if it's even possible to fit that much in at once. The idea that someone is going to drop dead inhaling nicotine from these things is absurd. If it did happen, it would be some kind of freak accident, and not proof that e-cigs as they're usually used are unsafe.

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You start with an equivocation fallacy. Nicotine and the other substances you mention are not the same, they do not share pharmacokinetic or dynamic properties - much like Gaige and his gun vs nicotine. Slippery slope argument - you can do better than this!

If you're going to just take numbers out of context, sure you might win a nobel prize any day. Let's try it one more time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine#Toxicology_sl said:

The LD50 of nicotine is 50 mg/kg for rats and 3 mg/kg for mice. 30-60 mg (0.5-1.0 mg/kg) can be a lethal dosage for adult humans.[6][70] Nicotine therefore has a high toxicity in comparison to many other alkaloids such as cocaine, which has an LD50 of 95.1 mg/kg when administered to mice. It is unlikely that a person would overdose on nicotine through smoking alone, although overdose can occur through combined use of nicotine patches or nicotine gum and cigarettes at the same time.[7]Spilling a high concentration of nicotine onto the skin can cause intoxication or even death, since nicotine readily passes into the bloodstream following dermal contact.[71]

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Perhaps you didn't read my earlier post - I'm concerned with all whom are in contact with this. Especially those whom mimic what adults do - the children. Look at the toxicity bolded above. Now consider a toddler of 10kg => 5-10mg is lethal for this toddler. Now tell me what is 'extremely unlikely' again. I beg you. That's not even touching on the middle stages - poisoning - which can also be life threatening for both adults and children.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine_poisoning

You common sense is not really doing anyone any good here.

Nicotine is not harmless.

Thanks for playing

mkopec_sl said:

Got it, now move along. Quit shitting up my thread.

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It sounds like you're motivated and dedicated to something at least. How's the quitting part going, mkopec? Are you enjoying playing alchemist so far?Can we have an update on these questions?

You've probably caused at least three people to start smoking since this thread's creation.

Christ, and people say I'm an aspie.

Kind of annoyed, I saw that they were selling cigarette looking "e-vapors" at the gas station and figured maybe they were disposable e-cigs, so I grabbed one to give it a shot. Puffed on it for 20 minutes to no effect, so I did some reading and realized that it's illegal to sell nicotine solution here in Australia, so apparently it's just a tool to mimic smoking behavior for those trying to quit or something like that :| Talk about false advertising.

Anyway, thoughts on:http://www.mtbakervapor.com/smok-ego...dual-coil-kit/



As a starting pack? Not sure I'm a huge fan of the shape of the mouthpiece, but it otherwise looks ok and the reviews are all solid.