Tarrant
<Prior Amod>
- 15,801
- 9,212
The Elder Scrolls Online
- Thread starter Anomander Rake
- Start date
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Bondurant
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 3,845
- 4,792
It was pretty bad (I was playing from Europe), some skills didn't even launch or land. Worse than other weekends. I can't really talk about experience without lag in Cyrodiil because I've never really experienced it during the last weekend (Auriel's Bow campaign). Once during Saturday afternoon there appeared to be less lag around some Elder Scrolls sanctuary, and we managed to kill a few people with maybe "only" 1-2s skill lag and rubberbanding, it wasn't very nice as a Bow NB because most of the time I didn't know if my skills landed or not. Also players teleporting / rubberbanding everywhere like mad lemmings isn't fun to deal with. Overall this was as fun as tobogganing naked on a giant cheese grater, mostly because of lag.
TrollfaceDeux
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
- 19,577
- 3,743
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
- 8,317
- 10,293
But that's exactly how we pass judgement on a game. We see how it plays when we start (or even before we start), and the only way we're going to play it if the start doesn't generate enthusiasm is if we get dragged thru it by a fanboy friend who insist we have to play it. Otherwise, by the first hour, you usually do know if you're going to like it, or drop it.
Almost no one is going to play past the first few hours if those first few hours don't generate enough interest. Especially if you have a sub attached; you're going to cancel it, shelve the game, and forget about it. You may rail against the injustice, but good designers have stressed this repeatedly: you win or lose the majority of your players on the first hour (some say, the first 15mn). That's why we tend to rail against "Tortage": Tortage was designed to win us over, but the rest of the game was meh, and we felt cheated. Conversely, if your starting experience is bad... maybe 10% of your players are going to figure out the post 20 game is wonderful: they'll have uninstalled the game already. And when people leave, they usually don't come back.
And that's how the majority of people are going to judge the game. Like it or hate it, that's what gives 90% of the recent MMOs the hump curve: strong sales (driven by marketing and hype - not everyone participates in those beta), followed by mass exodus because people figure out by level 20 that they're facing a game that's not highly interesting, and they shelve it.
Remember: the people in forums (and that includes us) are not representative of the majority of people that actually buy and play those games (or any other game).
moontayle
Golden Squire
- 4,302
- 165
Truth. Coworker of mine is adamant that he doesn't play any games. Except for Elder Scrolls. For whatever reason they hooked him in a way that other games could not. He's all rarin' to go at TESO.
This game will float for a while on the Elder Scrolls fanboys. I have no idea what's going to happen at "end game" to people like this who've never been subjected to the repetitiveness of max-level play.
The exact same thing was said for SWTOR, and it's still making money despite having a terrible cut and pasted endgame, though. This one actually has a design document built for an expanded endgame, if they can make it work, and didn't just cut and paste WOW which is nice.
This will sink or swim on how they add content and what they do to retain and bring back subscribers.
They really should. It's what GW2 did and it really hooked people. I know people who almost never do any PvE in GW2. Is it possible that they need to stagger entrance into Cyrodil for lag/server performance reasons?
Do you see me whining and complaining about anything? People can say whatever they want to about me as long as they don't get their panties in a wad if I punch back.
Sabbat
Trakanon Raider
- 1,934
- 812
I understand people not wanting to PvE at all, and just hop right into PvP at level 1. I do think this is a massive fuck up if they allowed it. It would be CoDifying our beloved MMORPGs. The 1-10 game allows you to test a few weapons, get some skill points and get a little grounding in the over-arching narrative before you enter the war. If you can't stomach the 1-10 game, I honest think it's time you left the RPG scene entirely.
Tuco's complaint of walking into a burnt out town with nothing in it was one of the funniest, and fucking sad things I've ever heard. That default state, the one with nothing in it? that's the town without YOUR involvement. You're damned right it's a ghost town, every cunt is already dead. You could bitch and moan that you should see the end result if you walk into it, that you should see that it was under attack, but that makes no sense either. Talk to the chick outside, and shit gets set in motion, because you've arrived in the nick of time. The lighthouse assault that I did, and the guy that turned everyone to stone in a town only needed a single spoken event to an NPC outside the area to kick start it, it didn't appear to be linked to any of the main story line. I roamed around a bit, found these landmarks, and completed the objectives. I made level 10 without even reaching Skywatch. That roaming around felt very much like playing Skyrim as I criss-crossed the landscape looking for landmarks to check out.
Tuco's complaint of walking into a burnt out town with nothing in it was one of the funniest, and fucking sad things I've ever heard. That default state, the one with nothing in it? that's the town without YOUR involvement. You're damned right it's a ghost town, every cunt is already dead. You could bitch and moan that you should see the end result if you walk into it, that you should see that it was under attack, but that makes no sense either. Talk to the chick outside, and shit gets set in motion, because you've arrived in the nick of time. The lighthouse assault that I did, and the guy that turned everyone to stone in a town only needed a single spoken event to an NPC outside the area to kick start it, it didn't appear to be linked to any of the main story line. I roamed around a bit, found these landmarks, and completed the objectives. I made level 10 without even reaching Skywatch. That roaming around felt very much like playing Skyrim as I criss-crossed the landscape looking for landmarks to check out.
Elder Scrolls Online - Nightblade Gameplay (Bow / 2h) - YouTube
Might shed some light on that situation...
Stop defending a fanboy. You seem to think well-written posts from guys like me are an example of someone trying too hard. Can't go both ways, buddy.
Blackwulf
N00b
- 999
- 18
I am amazed at how many vaginas in here are crying about having to get to level 10 (10!!) to go to Cyrodiil. There are 50 levels. Really? It's too hard to RPG to 1/5th the level cap? Don't tell me it's too hard or too boring. Bullshit. I've already put 6 characters over 10 in various weekend betas. The PVE is plenty good enough and engaging to do it ONE time after release. Then you'll be able to Cyrodiil all you want.
I'm not going to say you're wrong, but we shouldn't hold our breaths for that. Right now, Cyrodiil is hot shit and everybody wants a ticket to attend. They're going to push people back out to PvE. This is evident in the 0.18 change that improves XP gained by PK. Those who stick to Cyrodiil will level faster and their skills will level slower, which means that a pure PvP approach will be gimped compared to those who hold out for skills.
Many people are missing the message on that due to this "level doesn't matter" baloney. You can fight a level 50 at level 10 in Cyrodiil, but that just means that it will be a few seconds before you lose. Levels still govern HP, Magicka, and Stamina, equipment still impacts regen of all three if you choose it wisely, enchantment damage and effect strength (like armor reduction) still scale with equipment level, and skills bring another layer of complexity into that. This means that the biggest, best thing coming from PvP when it comes to character power is equipment because PvP itemization blows everything else out of the water. Unfortunately, this means the most powerful characters will be those who sit around leeching kills from their group in PvP to slow their leveling while getting equipment emails.
On the other hand, that in turn means that in the long run those who do the extra work of managing groups will at least eventually get something out of having to miss so much combat. It may take ten to twenty levels to really see that difference, but it will be there. That's a good thing because managing these zerglings is worse than herding kittens. I've yet to see anybody do it regularly without getting fed up at some point, myself included. Asking zerglings to do something as simple as "Don't stand under the fire pots" or "Attack resources first" is aneurism bait.
But going back to skills with itemization, level 50 alone says very little. A level 50 character who pushes their skills on the way up and chooses equipment wisely will tear through a pure PvP level 50 like they're made of wet tissue. Add to that a further ability to PvP from level 1 on, and you have a great mechanic to produce paper pawns but no balance in content draw to ensure that ZOS gets their punch per penny for all content produced.
BubbySoup
Golden Knight of the Realm
- 133
- 59
Wait a minute, this isn't a single player game and it shouldn't be a single player experience either. You are approaching it as though I am the only one who can make a difference to the outcome of that town, what about all the other players who have also saved the town? This is why story driven quests make absolutely no sense in an MMO, even with phasing technology you just end up with some muddled fuck up of events.
Far better to just leave the place populated and let the quest repeat on its loop for everyone, over having an empty town, take twenty steps back, talk to an npc and poof, magically filled town on fire waiting for you to rescue it - where's the fucking sense in that?
Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
- 16,531
- 12,587
Completely 100% disagree with the last statement. If you take the most boring drivel one has ever seen in an MMORPG, it isn't the genre's fault. I haven't ever, to this date, even knowing the quest patterns and such of all other games, been this incredibly bored in my life. I had a decent time in FF14, SWTOR Sith Warrior (Even with the travel time sinks which were pretty bad before the cash shop), and every class in WoW. TSW was a bit different and was awesome up until Egypt. GW2 was hilarious fun for a while.
1) Let's please not confuse MMORPG with RPG here. Completely two different things even though ZO is trying to use the Elder Scrolls name to sell this.
2) The complete downfalls and mismanagement of this project shouldn't deter anyone from trying out other MMORPG's.
3) It should have no impact on RPG's like Skyrim, Black Marsh, Fallout 3, etc.
BW: No one is crying about leveling to 10 before Cyro. They are crying about how ungodly boring and tedious it is and they are quitting before they even get to level 5. Even if a lot of the people got passed into dungeons, they would be so disappointed in them from an itemization stand point. I go into dungeons to see cool encounters and awesome / new looking loot I get to wear. The boss encounters are subjective. The loot is copy paste art assets and increased stats.
Caliane
Avatar of War Slayer
- 15,349
- 11,647
This is hilariously stupid.
Easy solution would be to just change that NPC you need to talk to. Instead of making you search them out and find that ! on your minimap.
Have them spawn and run at you. Like other quests clearly do. That mechanic is even in the game.
But that shit is still lame, as its an entirely single player experience in a multiplayer game. 90% of the pve content in this game is intentionally separating you from other players. its like playing dark souls ffs. you have about as much player interaction as leaving other players messages on the ground. Hell, even that has invasions.... That is more multiplayer..
No multiplayer interaction at all. its absurd.
For the Daggerfall starter. why the hell are there 2 islands? Even the pve game doesn't start proper until you get to Glenumbra.
That first tropical island. ok. Extended tutorial zone. Teaches you basic quests, maps, skyshards.
But the orc island? holy shit, what a giant piece of shit, waste of time.
Glenumbra now we actually have torches, map locations, questchains, set crafting, dungeons, and anchors.
Bruman
Golden Squire
- 1,154
- 0
The "boring vs engaging" line is subjective.
I found the game to be mediocre in the story-telling, which can be passable, if the combat was so extremely boring and non-engaging. Level 3 was the farthest I could get before thinking "$60 + sub for this? I'll go play one of many other games that I already own."
I give zero shits about Cyrodil / PVP, but forcing people go through that terrible PvE slog to do something they might enjoy is indeed A Bad Idea. Just because you can force yourself through it, why would you? Games are supposed to be fun and all that (unless you're a masochist, in which case, I recommend P99!)
Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
- 16,531
- 12,587
I mean seriously. It's like saying you shouldn't play Black Flag any more because you are tired of EQ.
Yeah, I have to agree I don't understand why there are two islands here. However, aren't they getting rid of the first island?
The Orc Island took me a few hours to get through, so it's not like it was a huge impediment.
Blackwulf
N00b
- 999
- 18
My point stems from the fact that a lot of people really enjoy the PVE. So, if you don't at least find it tolerable, maybe it's time to find a message board with a different subject matter. Maybe take up wood lathing?