For some reason you posting about Black Flag and regarding your history here made me think of this..
Anyways, apples and oranges there, really.
The Elder Scrolls Online
- Thread starter Anomander Rake
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Anyways, apples and oranges there, really.
zzeris
King Turd of Shit Hill
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I have to agree with this. Whining about having to waste a few hours from a hardcore MMO forum is pretty stupid. If the PvP is worth it, it's worth it right? Starting at level one feeds the WoW crowd who needs instant gratification. I just don't see any other way of putting it.
If you really don't like the game, then I'd follow Ut's advice and not put any money down.
Abefroman
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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Where exactly did I say I hate this game? I might even get it if what tuco told me is true.
When a person says there isn't a problem and then says they patched that problem. They are going to get shot on. Have a nice day and try to get some sleep.
Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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I think you missed the point. It * IS * apples to oranges. Which is why I think it was ridiculous of the poster I was replying to that if someone doesn't like TESO questing, they should stop playing "RPG's" altogether.
Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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They aren't talking about wasting it. They are talking about being forced to play through boredom to get to gated content.
No one here is saying if the PvE was actually fun and engaging they wouldn't play through 10 to get to Cyrodil. But the exact opposite is happening here. The PvE game is being panned by a lot of folks as something that is reaching a new low for PvE in an MMORPG. It isn't the mechanic itself, it's the way it is being presented from a content stand point of just being tedious and boring to play through, plus a long leveling curve to get through it to what they do want to play, PvP. The reasons for this just isn't becvause it is a quest based system. My opinion is due to many of the following reasons. Obviously, subjective.
1) Poor quest game play. Which is turning into a rinse and repeat of "Go here and activate these two pillars. One on the east, one on the west"
1.5) Very poor phasing system causing an emptiness to the world.
2) Poor itemization. A general lack of anything cool coming from any of the quests, but nothing more than 1 gold, 2 gold, 3 gold, and a trash item to sell. I would say this is a general
feel for all games, but when it gets to dungeons they start reusing multiple art assets where the only thing that changes is the stat. That is fairly boring to me.
3) Poor XP rewards stalling leveling to get to 10.
4) Poor leveling layout. This can be adjusted for compass crumbs as I will now call them to get to side quests, but those are all in various levels based on what you "explored", which can easily be outleveled quick if you never followed the normal progression path anyway.
Many other factors combine into this to not be fun or engaging. To say it is because of a quest style of play isn't 100% true. It's a combination of factors making it one of the most boring quest systems ever designed that is the problem.
Once again, you have the facts confused. People were complaining about combat lag and responsiveness. I correctly pointed out that the 0.17 patch, which was supposed to address the problem, actually made it worse. There were multiple complaints about it on the closed beta forums.
Patch .171 was released and all the complaints went away. There hasn't been one complaint about combat lag and responsiveness on the closed beta forums since 11 February.
Try paying better attention to what was actually said next time around.
Vitality
ＨＵＳＴＬＥ
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Damn, I step out for the night to go get some sushi with the GF and you guys go all Fight Club.
I'd like to hear some Cyrodil stories, and some of your guys' character builds.
I played a Restoration Staff Khajiit Nightblade (Lvl 13) focusing on Heal over time spells/CC/DoT Spells
For Healing:
(AOE Life Siphon + Rapid Healing Regeneration) *Came out to be about 7-9% hp/second depending on the persons max health*
Siphon Ultimate with HoT Morph (100hp/sec) 7-9% hp/second at level 50 in cyrodil
For DPS I used:
Soul Trap (Non Morphed) *Unsure if morphing increased damage or not*
Agony (Mez/DoT after mez breaks)
Cripple (Move Speed steal + DoT)
For Support I used:
Rapid Manuever (Group move speed buff)
Blood Well (Group health regen and Heal on Click)
Highlights of the build:
Really good Mez and CC and *set and forget* healing. Acted like a DAOC Sorc/Bard where I would get the initial mez off from stealth on the enemy templar and my group would proceed to beat ass on their team with a healer locked out.
Excellent at catching people on mounts with the move speed steal (mez doesn't work on mounted guys)
Definitely more of a sustained healing archetype - Templar has better burst heals.
I'd like to hear some Cyrodil stories, and some of your guys' character builds.
I played a Restoration Staff Khajiit Nightblade (Lvl 13) focusing on Heal over time spells/CC/DoT Spells
For Healing:
(AOE Life Siphon + Rapid Healing Regeneration) *Came out to be about 7-9% hp/second depending on the persons max health*
Siphon Ultimate with HoT Morph (100hp/sec) 7-9% hp/second at level 50 in cyrodil
For DPS I used:
Soul Trap (Non Morphed) *Unsure if morphing increased damage or not*
Agony (Mez/DoT after mez breaks)
Cripple (Move Speed steal + DoT)
For Support I used:
Rapid Manuever (Group move speed buff)
Blood Well (Group health regen and Heal on Click)
Highlights of the build:
Really good Mez and CC and *set and forget* healing. Acted like a DAOC Sorc/Bard where I would get the initial mez off from stealth on the enemy templar and my group would proceed to beat ass on their team with a healer locked out.
Excellent at catching people on mounts with the move speed steal (mez doesn't work on mounted guys)
Definitely more of a sustained healing archetype - Templar has better burst heals.
Bruman
Golden Squire
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- 0
You do realize that finding TESO's PVE horribly boring doesn't mean that someone finds all other PVE horribly boring, right?
Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
- 16,531
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The same? But with content that has a soul to it.
SWTOR: For all it's faults, had a great story line for some classes. That was the carrot to get passed some of the trivial and mundane side questing and travel sinks.
GW2: Really had a go anywhere mentality with fun and engaging PvE where new things were tried and you could see it outplay in the world. More than just "Put out this fire and get thrown into the next phase to see people". Different play types such as jumping puzzles and map completion.
TSW: Had very engaging atmosphere and a new puzzle system for questing. But the care that was put into the art assets here was above and beyond anything most developers could shit out because they put thought behind it. For instance, the franklin mansion while going through different time era's while playing through the haunted history of the house. Even the landscape changed. They could have easily just copy pasted that, but they spent the time to make sure it was all different for that 1-2 hour patch of PvE content.
WoW: A good example of how to use phasing within a quest system starting with WOTLK. Quests you actually remember long after you played through them. Like the fight into Icecrown and establishing a future base to inch onward into the zone itself. (THis happened with 3 quest hubs that I remember that weren't quest hubs until you did the story line and phased through it in a military invasion style system)
Bruman
Golden Squire
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- 0
Utnayan pretty much answered for me (something I thought I'd never say!)
I would add though, that I also like the old-school EverQuest/Project1999 group-centric PVE. And a big part of TESO's PvE that made it such a slog for me was my dislike of the combat. Especially compared to something like WoW, which is kind of the gold standard in responsiveness (or was the last time I played). I also enjoyed FF14:ARR for my free month, but got bored shortly into the max level grind. The combat there was decently well done tab-targeting, although their "dodge the floor" implementation was horrible.
I would add though, that I also like the old-school EverQuest/Project1999 group-centric PVE. And a big part of TESO's PvE that made it such a slog for me was my dislike of the combat. Especially compared to something like WoW, which is kind of the gold standard in responsiveness (or was the last time I played). I also enjoyed FF14:ARR for my free month, but got bored shortly into the max level grind. The combat there was decently well done tab-targeting, although their "dodge the floor" implementation was horrible.
Caliane
Avatar of War Slayer
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That is more then a week for a casual player.
And for this game, 5 hours too much.
When do you get your first morph? about level 5?
I do wish RvR had some kind of introductory area.
Someone needs to brainstorm this I think.
Like your pve gets these starter zones, and shit. dungeons are introduced for a period of leveling. Skills as well.
RvR dumps you right in the frey, with no introduction to attacking a keep. controlling resources, how the chains, and portals work. How seige mechanics work. hell, not even pvp player rezing.
Gw2's intro is of course a very literal tutorial on stomping, holding points, seige, etc. Very basic. very boring.
Warhammer had its rvr tiered. adding bigger keeps, more mechanics as you go as well. And made it so higher levels got penalties for going back to lower rvr zones. While those lower zones were supposed to effect higher teired points. So, warhammer WAS thinking about this. but totally failed miserably.
The arguments here are really so subjective - its foolishness to debate. ESO is not bad enough to be upset about it. It's not even released and people are bitching about broken features as if broken shit wasnt part of every MMO released...ever.
The game is solid in what it does which is to provide the ES experience in an online world. I feel like the world is much more open than SWToR.
ESO is not ground breaking and will never dominate other MMO's but I think it will have a good shelf life and do well financially.
EDIT: We should all hope it does well. At least, I do want a section of high budget MMO's that charge a sub fee. Reason being, big budget, sub games will have a superior quality.
The game is solid in what it does which is to provide the ES experience in an online world. I feel like the world is much more open than SWToR.
ESO is not ground breaking and will never dominate other MMO's but I think it will have a good shelf life and do well financially.
EDIT: We should all hope it does well. At least, I do want a section of high budget MMO's that charge a sub fee. Reason being, big budget, sub games will have a superior quality.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Fucking good? I don't want them in Cyrodil if they haven't put in the 5+ hours to learn basic mechanics.
Scrub PVPers will be far more damaging to this game's population in the long term than people 'getting bored before they finish the newbie experience'.
And seriously, who the fuck reads quest text any more? Wtf are you guys even talking about? I don't think I've read an NPC dialogue since TBC.
I read quests, albeit fast. I try to have a reason why Im doing what Im doing in MMO's. I dont begrudge anyone who doesnt and if I was in charge of making a MMO, I would probably find a way to ditch having to read quests altogether.
Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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What are the criteria for determining if a MMO has a "soul"? Is there a industry standard that has consensus agreement or are the criteria individually subjective?
Caliane
Avatar of War Slayer
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amusing, I decided to edit and talk about just that, as you posted.
those pve levels in no way, shape or form, prepare you for pvp or RvR.
In fact, scrub or not. even pvping at level 10, makes you a liability. we all fucking know that. so then are you going to start arguing only RvR at 50?
and at 50 without gear?
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Sure they do. They are long enough to give you a handle on skill selection, basic movement, objective completion, inventory use, the hotbar etc.
Imagine if a new player didn't have to do those first 10 hours?