The Elder Scrolls Online

Tuco_sl said:

But back to the nameplate argument, saying, "Sage wanted to cater to part of the community" is basically the same as "Sage thought no nameplates was the right choice.". The reasons why don't ultimately matter because he has to make the choice for what's best for the game and he chose no nameplates. This choice, given how easy nameplates are to implement and how much it crippled the facilitation of a community is likely one of the worst decisions in MMO design history. For the rest of MMO gaming when people bring up, "You know nameplates hurt immersion." people will point out ESO as why it should always be in the game.

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Is it safe for me to assume that you also reject Utnayan's assertion that Sage removed nameplates because WoW had them? I provided two logical explanations that might explain why they were removed. Do you have any other logical explanations for why they were removed?

I fully agree it would be simple to put nameplates back in the game. I imagine all it would take is uncommenting a few lines of code. I mentioned the possibility nameplates could cause a performance hit based on the early days of raiding in EQ1 and WoW. We always turned off nameplates in raids to improve performance. You said that isn't a technical problem anymore thanks to modern day video cards. If you are correct, that leaves placating the hardcore TES fanbase as the only logical explanation for the decision. Everyone who was in closed beta knows how loud and vocal this segment of the test community was.

The thing is, it would be beyond simple to put in a toggable configuration setting to either display or not display nameplates and that would make both sides of the debate happy.

Which is worse?
The Seahawks call to throw the ball from the 1 yard line in the Superbowl.
or
Paul Sage's call to get rid of nameplates?

Paul sage's call ... go ... hawks... :-(

Tuco_sl said:

I reject the assertion that it matters. Hiding behind placating a fanbase that has never played MMOs is as incompetent a thought as any reason they claim led to disabling nameplates.

Utnayan is making unsubstantiated claims that Sage did it purely because it looked like WoW. You're following the company line that they did it to follow the TES franchise. Bottom line it was a monumentally dumb idea that Sage stuck to like he had Stockholm syndrome. I'd say that it killed ESO but it doesn't really matter. It was just one shit-turd in the pile that was ESO.

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The company line straight from the horses mouth is that nameplates were removed because they didn't look good and that they would eventually get added back in. If you don't believe that was the real reason,
if you reject the possibility it was because of performance issues, and you reject the possibility it was to placate the hardcore TES fanbase, then unless you can come up with some other plausible explanation the only thing left is to agree with Utnayan.

Only reason I asked you earlier what Wheeler's position on the issue was is because I couldn't remember what all came out of the ZOS/PRX PVP summit. Once 1.6 goes live, there is a 2-3 month window before the console version is released. If nameplates are not put back in before the console release then they may never be.

Now put aside your biases and follow my line of thought.

While you and I (both of us MMO vets) agree taking nameplates out was a bad decision, will the typical console gamer have the same opinion as us? Skyrim sold over 20 million units on the console so it is within the realm of possibility what us MMO vets think was a stupid decision the console community may have no problems with whatsoever. I have never played a console game so I really don't have a clue what kind of gamelay the console community is going to expect from TESO.

Tuco we all know that skyrim kids are going to want multiplayer skyrim from ESO. They're not going to get it and they're going to get real mad.

CoDboyz want score screens and KDR leaderboards = Nope

SkyrimBoyz want to pick pocket their friends, get lost in well written side quests, find a cave and spend 30 minutes in it. Almost die to the traps of a dungeon that takes an hour to clear. Fight a mudcrab that will 1 shot you if you don't block it's attack.

Nope. Nope. Nope. Battleaxe Mudcrab? Nope.

Tuco_sl said:

That's my perception too. And I'll reiterate that throwing some network code onto skyrim to turn it into a coop game or a small MMO game with non-persistent worlds and ~100 active people at a time would be awesome.

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Just don't invite me to your server or I'll stack a bunch of dead mudcrabs on your front door so you can't use it.

Or I'll fill your barrels full of lusty argonian maid books.

Utnayan_sl said:

I am making the claim based on what a person who worked there at the time told me what had happened when the meeting took place and Sage said what he said inside that meeting.

I want my beer.

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Yeah but where's your proof?

Draegan_sl said:

Which is worse?
The Seahawks call to throw the ball from the 1 yard line in the Superbowl.
or
Paul Sage's call to get rid of nameplates?

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Paul Sage's, at least the Seahawks call had a chance to be successful.

Utnayan_sl said:

Not when Lynch is 17/20 in those situations for touchdowns. Their reasoning is ridiculous. 2nd down pass play with the thinking of having one time out left and an incomplete pass if unsuccessful bringing them to 2 more run chances and a time out after one, which locks them into a predictable pattern for the last 2 downs was a horrible thought process. . Also, Lynch was wide on the left in the end zone on that play, which makes it even more embarrassing for their Offensive Coordinator. Wilson should have thrown the ball away at that point to be safe but also had plenty of time to see Lynch wide left. Glad it was picked though. I won $125.00. And that's a hell of a great story for Butler.

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The Seahawks wanted Wilson to be named the game's MVP instead of Lynch, who will be a free agent this off season.

I am making that claim based on what I was told by a Seahawks employee (who happens to be a member of my guild) who was on the sideline and overheard the conversation between Carroll and the OC on what play to call.

I'm going to see how thing shape up, but I gotta tell you guys - these last few months have left a really bad taste in my mouth. It's become quite clear that MMO PC gamers are of very little concern to the suits at ZOS. I'm pretty sure that from day one, Paul Sage has been planning to use this last year as a test bed to flesh out and polish the console release. I think that Matt Firor had great plans and hopes for this MMO, but I think that the console love-fest that Bethesda has become over the last decade corrupted the fuck outta him. I think they marginalized him and basically said, look, if PC sales aren't stellar, you better have plan B ready. Plan B, being a complete refocus of the company on a PVEconsoleexperience overhaul. Us PC suckers just paid them to create a better console game. There's been no real end game content added since October, and that content was a vet dungeon and a fucking boring ass raid (excuse me, TRIAL) that takes 20 minutes once your guild has it down. The previous two raids (er TRIALS) can be done in 10 minutes. The loot is boring and the experience was old 7 months ago.

Vet dungeons and monster helmet sets are cool, but man, you can't fucking live off that shit for a year! Champion system is neat - it adds a lot of life to character development, but how are us vets supposed to gain 3600 champion points without slitting our wrists? We've already done all the content 300 times. The PVP could be an answer, but they stuck Brian Wheeler in a closet 8 months ago and nothing's been done for PVP. Matt Firor might be marginalized, but at least he spoke bluntly on a recent reddit AMA: He said that there will be NO NEW CONTENT until console release has "settled down." So.... fucking August maybe? A tiny bit of new content in October, and nothing new until MAYBE August? That's a long time to expect people to grind out 400k xp per champion point on very old, limited end game content.

The point of my previous paragraph was basically to point out that they don't give a fuck about us people that are bored to tears with the current content. There's PLENTY of fucking content for the console kids to keep busy until the first DLC pack drops around August or September.

Put it this way - I'll be dropping my sub and just checking in rather infrequently until some content drops. I'm probably going to be disappointed, because they're going to cater to fucking console baddies.

My only ray of sunshine is that I imagine B2P will bring a lot of noobs in to the various PVP campaigns and me and my gank squad can farm the shit outta them, until even that becomes boring.

Here's hoping that Wing Commander MMO pans out. Or the Shadowbane sequel, thingy, Crowfall.

For the record: I don't really blame Matt Firor - I think his vision was cool, but the ES fan base wouldn't support a DAOC two in ES skin. Utnayan... Utnayan... Utnayan, I think you were right about Paul Sage. Mother fucker.