Very interested how my name got up there because I sure as hell havent said EQ was magic in any sort of way. Feel free to quote where I said EQ was magic.
The Elder Scrolls Online
- Thread starter Anomander Rake
- Start date
Laura
Lord Nagafen Raider
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- 109
*nods* I agree.
I guarantee you that very few people like the "quest-driven" MMORPG design (a.k.a WoW clone, exclamation marks, quest-hubs, quest grinds..etc).
Proof?
Remove rewards (XP, items, class progression...etc) from these quests and see if anyone cares to take quests and turn them in for the "Story". No one wants to talk to an NPC then walk for 5 minutes to grab a Book somewhere in the map and Right click on it then to go back to that same NPC and click "accept" just to read some garbage text. People do this boring errand because it gives them 1,000 XP.
Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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This is a ridiculous statement. Sorry. As stated before by Draegenm it's the same shit over and over, just dressed in a different pair of pants.
Whether it is grinding out mobs ala EQ, BAFing Trows in Spindehalla in DAOC, running instances in WoW or running through quests, or dinking around with dynamic events in Guild Wars 2, it's all the same shit. Progression masked in different ways to make it not seem like a leveling treadmill.
If you took out the progression driven factor and threw those story quests in a sandbox with about 70 other things to do and made the quests interesting with a deep story, not the $10/hour hacks that replaced most game story writers in 2006+, I would bet you would see quite a few people like it. But that doesn't mean people do not like it now. For everyone that raids in these games, I can show you another two who are standing in one spot reading or watching a cut scene.
Abefroman
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
- 12,597
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Well no fucking shit. Remove those same things from all the mobs in GUK, you think anyone would go there?
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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You are a moron. I have consistently said throughout the history of this thread that what I am looking for is a mix of new and old. With a particular wish for a return of a sense of danger.
Dude, you should be proud you suck the giant flacid cock that is EQ. Wear that shit like a badge of honor dude.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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The skill level of EQ going to level cap was much higher than WoW, but it had to do with knowledge. Knowledge of safespots, pulls, spawn timers and rares. Things like that. Comparing entering a dungeon with a group of people who knew their shit to a group of clueless newbies was like night and day. A solid group would let you level very fast and have a chance of good loot while a bad group would cause you exp loss. In WoW the first time you entered an instance you knew that the end boss would die no matter who was with you. Like the first time I entered Stratholme with a shaman tanking. How much shit did you suffer through in EQ before you found people who you could actually progress with? For me it almost got me to quit the game early on.
Raiding in WoW was severely cheapened by strat guides out within a week of the world firsts. My guild had a few top tens so we were up there, but we always knew what to do going in to an encounter. The most difficult part with WoW raiding was weeding out the retards who couldn't stay focused for more than a minute, and then try not to replace them with someone with similar mental problems. Those people weren't always spotted in the application process. I stopped playing EQ early Velious so I didn't raid much, but I'm going to assume it was the same thing there.
One last thing. I never saw any noticeable differences between people within classes on the dps meter in WoW that couldn't be explained by gear or randomness. Same goes for healing. Wonder why.
Raiding in WoW was severely cheapened by strat guides out within a week of the world firsts. My guild had a few top tens so we were up there, but we always knew what to do going in to an encounter. The most difficult part with WoW raiding was weeding out the retards who couldn't stay focused for more than a minute, and then try not to replace them with someone with similar mental problems. Those people weren't always spotted in the application process. I stopped playing EQ early Velious so I didn't raid much, but I'm going to assume it was the same thing there.
One last thing. I never saw any noticeable differences between people within classes on the dps meter in WoW that couldn't be explained by gear or randomness. Same goes for healing. Wonder why.
Laura
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 582
- 109
Laura
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 582
- 109
They go there because that's how the game is designed, to tackle the challenges of the dungeon and get phat l00t.
Quest-Driven MMOs (for the leveling part at least) are designed around completing a successive series of quests (pre-defined path). Not only you're discouraged from grouping most of the time (sometimes forced to solo) but you're also forced to play the game the way the designer wants you to. You must run for no reason towards points A, B, C...etc collecting mushrooms, apples, pressing buttons for no apparent reason.
As for a different game style (since you mentioned GUK, we'll use EQ
Oh and EverQuest is by far not a perfect game, it's flawed. But instead of making a dumbed-down version of it... why can't we evolve the genre. More freedom and more options that suits every playing styles without this stupid hand-holding/spoon-feeding content.
Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
- 16,829
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Which is.... Grinding. Quest grinding, mob grinding, kite grinding, solo grinding... it doesn't matter. Also, no one stopped you from playing WoW the exact same way you played EQ. You could pull a ton of mobs and AE them down. You could run instances over and over again (similar to staying in one spot and camping the same mob rotation over and over) Yes the game rewarded using the questing system. That doesn't mean you were forced into it.As for a different game style (since you mentioned GUK, we'll use EQ) I'm free to choose what I want to do. I can solo, group, duo with a friend... anything. Not everyone did Guk 24/7 I know I quad-kited with my druid, kited with my SK as solo for some time. I grouped, I duoed, I was free to play the game the way I want... why force people to do a pre-defined set of quests and make them the way to progress (because of the XP)? I don't understand it.
EQ never gave you the option of doing anything but either camping in a zone pulling the same mobs for a possible drop, taking LARGE amounts of time to solo due to slow regen and finding a good camp spot, or kiting while hopefully not running into a different NPC path to mess that up, or having the few select paths taken.
Either way, those aren't options to playing the game the way you want, those are accessibility/design scope challenges also forcing you to play a game a certain way. As Draegen stated, just another pair of pants over the progression system. I would also like to know (at least in Vanilla I am unsure of the timeframe you played EQ in) how you solo'd GUK unless you were over geared and over leveled and even then it still was impossible. Everything in Lguk was camped to hell and high water in those days and your reputation would get fucked if you stole spawns/named from those camps.
Rose colored glasses are on for just about everyone it seems. Either that, or people have played EQ at much different times then when you needed a clarity to stand a chance at leveling solo as a caster, much less at all, while staring at a spell book.
Abefroman
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
- 12,597
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Nothing is forcing you to just quest in games like WoW. You ca do BG's, gathering, dungeons or grind to get a rare drop. You still have those choices. Questing just happens to be the best exp for most people. The same way quad kiting was the best exp for me in EQ. It's all exp and killing a bunch of shit no matter how you cut it. With the questing they at least try to put a fancy wrapper on killing shit over and over. Quest hub or grind hub, at it's core it's the same.As for a different game style (since you mentioned GUK, we'll use EQ) I'm free to choose what I want to do. I can solo, group, duo with a friend... anything. Not everyone did Guk 24/7 I know I quad-kited with my druid, kited with my SK as solo for some time. I grouped, I duoed, I was free to play the game the way I want... why force people to do a pre-defined set of quests and make them the way to progress (because of the XP)? I don't understand it.
Ambiturner
Ssraeszha Raider
- 16,153
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Hahahahaha. You should have tried soloing as a warrior. You get a 5 minute fight with a mob 5 levels below you and then afterwards get to sit around for 15-20 min while your hp regens 3000 hp at 2 hp a tick. Or duo with another melee and you get to kill 2 of those mobs before resting for 15 min.They go there because that's how the game is designed, to tackle the challenges of the dungeon and get phat l00t.
Quest-Driven MMOs (for the leveling part at least) are designed around completing a successive series of quests (pre-defined path). Not only you're discouraged from grouping most of the time (sometimes forced to solo) but you're also forced to play the game the way the designer wants you to. You must run for no reason towards points A, B, C...etc collecting mushrooms, apples, pressing buttons for no apparent reason.
As for a different game style (since you mentioned GUK, we'll use EQ)I'm free to choose what I want to do. I can solo, group, duo with a friend... anything. Not everyone did Guk 24/7 I know I quad-kited with my druid, kited with my SK as solo for some time. I grouped, I duoed, I was free to play the game the way I want... why force people to do a pre-defined set of quests and make them the way to progress (because of the XP)? I don't understand it.
And you DO NOT HAVE TO FOLLOW THE QUEST CHAINS. I don't know why you keep repeating this over and over. There is no penalty for going out and grinding endless mobs Eq style. They give you the option of breaking that up with occasional turn ins, but you are in no way forced to do them. Last time I played I leveled to cap doing nothing but dungeons. And you know what? Nobody came to my house and arrested me or shot tear gas through my windows.
I also don't know where you get the idea that EQ had more freedom. You had no choice but to go to zones appropriate for your level and mindless grind mobs for hours and hours. There were very few quests worth doing and nobody ever did them.
Kirun
Buzzfeed Editor
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The genrehasevolved. Those harkening back to the glory days of EQ are the ones who haven't evolved.
Most of the people who get nostalgic about EQ are the types of players who like that style of gameplay or like playing a game a certain way and they want that choice to be forced onto others becausetheythink it's the greatest shit since sliced bread. Games nowadays offer a shitload more freedom to be "you" and play the game the way you want to play it. The devs absolutely forced you to play EQ a certain way. Any freedom you had in that game was almost always by fucking accident. The only thing that has changed is that gamers aren't forced to put up with bullshit anymore. If they don't like the gameplay they have plenty more options. Not to mention, they have plenty of other avenues of play within the game itself. It's no longer a "do it or quit" scenario like it was with EQ.
Laura
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 582
- 109
Try playing Aion and pass the first zone without doing quests. Not possible.
When I say WoW I usually mean Vanilla WoW since I quit the game just after BC, as far as I can remember you'd be at a very big disadvantage in terms of gear and level-speed if you skip quests. *shrugs*
God I would kill for a game with EQ-like grind. Being with friends trying to go to the deepest of befallen collecting keys was a hell of fun. You compare this to "Kill 10 foozles"? that's just... doesn't process in my brain but I accept your opinion.
Running away for your life in the castle in Crushbone because your extra-enthusiast puller pulled Dvinn and your tank just died in a heart-beat that experience is equal to Running from hub-to-hub doing quests collecting mushrooms and flowers or god forbid escort an NPC? *sigh*
I don't know... you guys might be right, but I have my opinion. *pouts*