The Expanse

Holden giving me vibes of that weiner main character on Mass Effect Andromeda, the pathfinder can't remember his actual name.

If you dislike Holden's actor now----and I'm no fan----it's just gonna get worse considering where the show is going. He COULD pull it off I think, but he needs to be more confident and mature. Mostly a LOT more mature.

This show is... weird? I just started watching this. The first 2 episodes are actually pretty good. They got me on board and there was a decent amount of intrigue in the 3 factions they set forth. Then the next 3-4 episodes are just... what?

It was like someone who actually knows how to write started the series off and then handed it off to some high school cuck who wished he could be as cool as the characters he was "creating" which makes them seem ridiculous.

I know you guys have said this is worth getting past but oof. Just oof.

Khane said:

This show is... weird? I just started watching this. The first 2 episodes are actually pretty good. They got me on board and there was a decent amount of intrigue in the 3 factions they set forth. Then the next 3-4 episodes are just... what?

It was like someone who actually knows how to write started the series off and then handed it off to some high school cuck who wished he could be as cool as the characters he was "creating" which makes them seem ridiculous.

I know you guys have said this is worth getting past but oof. Just oof.

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I wouldn't bother if you're not sold by the fifth episode. Although the ideas and the surrounding narrative gets a lot more interesting, the characters and their motivations will just irritate you more and more.

Also what the fuck is with the accents? One minute a character is trying to sound Creole and the next Chinese?

Khane said:

Also what the fuck is with the accents? One minute a character is trying to sound Creole and the next Chinese?

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Belter Creole has Chinese and German etc elements. And different parts of the belt have different flavors of it. Also, some of the actors do it better than others.

Belter is a mishmash of different languages as a result of the original people who went out to the belt.

Wow, apparently I could be a writer too.

"These budget actors can't do the accent we want"
"Just pretend it's every accent and hundreds of years still haven't solidified it, cuz that makes perfect sense and definitely happens, even though it doesn't and earth is actual proof"

I get it, if you like the show you're gonna defend it. But some things have to be chalked up to budget and just say "Yea... budget" instead of trying to pretend it makes sense.

Dom said:

The belters aren't a unified people. They're split up in clans across a huge amount of space so it wouldn't solidify into a common accent. Various words would carry inflections from various languages, the same way English does with all of its origin languages that you don't notice because it's natural to you.

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That's fine, but doesn't explain why a single character speaks in one accent in one scene and then switches in the next for no reason. Like completely switches... to the point where you think they're from another country entirely.

I'm not saying character A doesn't have the same accent as character B. I'm saying character A randomly switches between accents... in a very jarring way.

It's still early days for me in this show, and this has been the case in other shows I've watched early on that ended up nailing it down and being enjoyable in the end. But man... it's jarring.

Khane said:

Wow, apparently I could be a writer too.

"These budget actors can't do the accent we want"
"Just pretend it's every accent and hundreds of years still haven't solidified it, cuz that makes perfect sense and definitely happens, even though it doesn't and earth is actual proof"

I get it, if you like the show you're gonna defend it. But some things have to be chalked up to budget and just say "Yea... budget" instead of trying to pretend it makes sense.

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I like the show and I defended it by telling you that it doesn't work for you after five episodes, you probably shouldn't bother with it.

That's because the show does a GREAT job at least trying to stay consistent with the novels, where the belters represent dozens of cultures from areas spread out across the asteroid belt to the moons of Jupiter, with dialects going from Afrikaans to Tagalog----and they TALK LIKE THAT IN THE BOOKS.

If you didn't read the novels, then they're just speaking weird for no reason. The ships are firing their thrusters at the direction they're travelling at no reason. They do those magnetic boots all the time for no reason. People stay standing up after being shot dead in zero g for no reason. Because if you weren't in the books, NONE OF THE SHIT that happens in the show might happen for any discernible reason.

But it does happen for a reason, and it's great that the show tries to portray it accurately, and if it bugs you after five episodes, it just won't work for you ever.

Dom said:

Which scene?

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Episode 3, the British dude from Mad Men Jared Harris, who I know is a good actor.

khorum said:

I like the show and I defended it by telling you that it doesn't work for you after five episodes, you probably shouldn't bother with it.

That's because the show does a GREAT job at least trying to stay consistent with the novels, where the belters represent dozens of cultures from areas spread out across the asteroid belt to the moons of Jupiter, with dialects going from Afrikaans to Tagalog----and they TALK LIKE THAT IN THE BOOKS.

If you didn't read the novels, then they're just speaking weird for no reason. The ships are firing their thrusters at the direction they're travelling at no reason. They do those magnetic boots all the time for no reason. People stay standing up after being shot dead in zero g for no reason. Because if you weren't in the books, NONE OF THE SHIT that happens in the show might happen for any discernible reason.

But it does happen for a reason, and it's great that the show tries to portray it accurately, and if it bugs you after five episodes, it just won't work for you ever.

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Alright that's fair, I came here for exactly this type of response. But if all this does happen for a reason then why wouldn't I keep watching the show?

The intellectual problems you are describing but then say are answered would be a reason for me to continue, not a reason for me to stop. So your assessment doesn't quite make sense.

It reminds me of trying to explain to someone I recommended the Wool omnibus to. They started asking all kinds of intellectual questions regarding the state of the book universe and I had to say "just keep reading, all questions are answered". So is that what you're saying?

Khane said:

Alright that's fair, I came here for exactly this type of response. But if all this does happen for a reason then why wouldn't I keep watching the show?

The intellectual problems you are describing but then say are answered would be a reason for me to continue, not a reason for me to stop. So your assessment doesn't quite make sense.

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If you keep watching it, a lot more things will happen that will be elided from the books. There are only a couple scenes with the mormons that explain why they're building the largest spaceship ever built. There's only a couple scenes that explain why belter creole is a complete mishmash and why their language is as much sign language and tattooes. They do a good job putting a lot of weight on those few scenes to explain everything from why the Martians became such a focused and disciplined "Texans in space" or why Fred Johnson DOES NOT speak with the belter language yet seems to lead one of the biggest belter factions, but it expects a lot from the audience to fill in the blanks.

If you're fine with piecing those things together through the show then you'll enjoy it and you'll be rewarded. But if you're the type to be turned off by unresolved nitpicking over things that are explained only in the novels, then I'd say just don't bother, because all that stuff is the sort of SUBTEXT the fans of the books appreciate so much---the belters use sign language and tattoos because they lived and worked in spacesuits for so long where direct verbal communication wasn't always optimal, the mormons want to build a ship that will carry generations across the stars and Fred Johnson was a UN Colonel who switched sides after being ordered to massacre innocent civilians.

Okay, so the last two responses have me convinced this show has nuance and is worth watching. That's really what I wanted to know.

"Is what is happening on screen because there is a story that is unfolding slowly with intent, or is what is happening on screen because the writers are doing what most writers do and just trying to hamfist a bunch of ideas they think will hit hard in a given moment onto the screen with no intent at all"

You guys have answered my question. Thanks for the detailed responses. I will continue watching.

Dom said:

I assume you're talking about the dock scene and the following one, and I agree it's pretty jarring. One thing though that you wouldn't have been fully exposed to yet though is what kind of man Dawes (Harris) is and how he plays people and "the people" through his speeches. He hams it up for the belters as he's one of their leaders, but changes to a different person one-on-one with outsiders that he's using for one purpose or another. It's usually not as bad as those scenes though and I'd chalk it up to Harris still figuring it out.

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We wouldn't really see that aspect of Dawes till the next season TBH. We can only hope they were able to convince Jared Harris to come back and play Dawes again.

Jared Harris seems genuinely willing to do all sorts of projects. He's one of those actors who has nothing to prove and just seems to enjoy immersing himself in different roles.