The Last of Us

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pharmakos

pharmakos

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TJT said:
Bro it takes more than an operational manual in this case.

I love these kinds of discussions but what you are actually doing is fitting a power generation system designed to feed into a greater system and redesigning it to feed to one town that used to be on that system.

This requires various complicated skills and understanding. Not just reading a manual or even being a electrician. You would need an extraordinary polymath kind of guy to do all of this with some level of competence.
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Yeah bro, tested literal top of my class in high school despite barely doing homework or studying. As a trained chemist (sadly no degree -- My last semester of school I had to start chemotherapy instead) I have a working understanding of electricity, not to the level of a physicist but certainly a giant head start over many of the other people in the apocalypse.
 
pharmakos

pharmakos

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Seananigans said:
IRL footage of pharmakos explaining to the retards how he can do this, complete with end result:

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Yeah but Frank Grimes really was a genius. He was just driven to insanity by being surrounded by stupidity.

Great microcosm of what it's like to spend time on FoH.
 
BrutulTM

BrutulTM

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I think his point is that having a "working understanding" of stuff isn't good enough anymore. It's not that you're stupid, it's that things have gotten so complex that everyone is a specialist. Back in the 50's if you were a good mechanic you could work on any vehicle, and make it work with baling wire and duct tape if the real shit wasn't available. Now it's getting close to the point where mechanics have to specialize on a specific brand of car because they can't afford to have all of the electronic diagnostics and the specialized tools that are required for every brand of motor vehicle.

It's the whole "no one person knows how to make a pencil" thing. Our technology is so complex and dependent on so many people all over the world than in a real near extinction scenario a stunning amount of it will be lost and unrecoverable. Just the fact that no one is building spare parts will mean everything will stop working within a few years and you don't just need to go find the place where they built the spare parts, you need to be able to make steel and plastic to make them out of and the people who know how to make steel don't know how to do it in the medieval way, they know how to do it with massive machines and huge amounts of coal or natural gas and electricity which are also not available anymore. We wouldn't be back to the stone age immediately, but even getting back to the middle ages level of tech would take a while and no one will be building an iphone for a few hundred or thousand years.
 
pharmakos

pharmakos

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BrutulTM said:
I think his point is that having a "working understanding" of stuff isn't good enough anymore. It's not that you're stupid, it's that things have gotten so complex that everyone is a specialist. Back in the 50's if you were a good mechanic you could work on any vehicle, and make it work with baling wire and duct tape if the real shit wasn't available. Now it's getting close to the point where mechanics have to specialize on a specific brand of car because they can't afford to have all of the electronic diagnostics and the specialized tools that are required for every brand of motor vehicle.

It's the whole "no one person knows how to make a pencil" thing. Our technology is so complex and dependent on so many people all over the world than in a real near extinction scenario a stunning amount of it will be lost and unrecoverable. Just the fact that no one is building spare parts will mean everything will stop working within a few years and you don't just need to go find the place where they built the spare parts, you need to be able to make steel and plastic to make them out of and the people who know how to make steel don't know how to do it in the medieval way, they know how to do it with massive machines and huge amounts of coal or natural gas and electricity which are also not available anymore. We wouldn't be back to the stone age immediately, but even getting back to the middle ages level of tech would take a while and no one will be building an iphone for a few hundred or thousand years.
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20 damn years tho! I'm not saying I'd figure it out in a weekend. What do you think people did before the internet? They went to the university and read textbooks in the library. It's not like all the knowledge in the world went poof.
 
BrutulTM

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pharmakos said:
20 damn years tho! I'm not saying I'd figure it out in a weekend. What do you think people did before the internet? They went to the university and read textbooks in the library. It's not like all the knowledge in the world went poof.
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Sure but what if it won't work without an o-ring? Where are you going to get a new one? And it's not a standard one you can go find at the Pep Boys, it's a special order from some company in China that doesn't exist anymore and you don't even have any way of knowing that. It's definitely not in some book at the library.
 
pharmakos

pharmakos

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BrutulTM said:
Sure but what if it won't work without an o-ring? Where are you going to get a new one? And it's not a standard one you can go find at the Pep Boys, it's a special order from some company in China that doesn't exist anymore and you don't even have any way of knowing that. It's definitely not in some book at the library.
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If it was run decently then they likely have all needed replacement gear in storage somewhere on site, naw? As far as the little shit that's designed to break first so that the big shit doesn't break, at least?

Tho we are talking about American infrastructure so I admit perhaps that isn't a fair assumption.
 
TJT

TJT

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You would immediately need a machine tooling shop that you could operate without electricity. As you would need to be able to use a machine tool such as a lathe to create makeshift components to fit to stuff.

A machinist is in itself and entirely difficult skill to learn and you would also need to source metal to shape in the first place.
 
pharmakos

pharmakos

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TJT said:
You would immediately need a machine tooling shop that you could operate without electricity. As you would need to be able to use a machine tool such as a lathe to create makeshift components to fit to stuff.

A machinist is in itself and entirely difficult skill to learn and you would also need to source metal to shape in the first place.
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Why would you need to make components? Anyway, I've got some minimal experience programming robots from working in a factory (I used to make frunkliners for the Tesla Model S on a waterjet robot that fucked up all the god damn time, had to adjust the program constantly) and (I know this is gonna sound convenient but it's the truth, genuinely) my #1 friend I would make sure to team up with if the apocalypse happened is a doomsday prepper who is a CNC operator by day.

My old man was the head of all skilled trades at the largest factory in the Thumb of Michigan and taught me a thing or two as well. I picked up a lot of knowledge between working in that factory and the other factory I mentioned. Also, old man had an engine repair shop in our back yard where he taught me a lot as well.

Anyway, you could get a CNC machine running with a big enough gas generator bro. Lol. Most factories already have backup generators on site.
 
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Phazael

Phazael

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To be fair, the older power plants in small rural towns like that one are much simpler than the more complex modern ones. And with good maintenance, these older ones can last forever. Available raw materials for that maintenance is the biggest concern, particularly lubricants as stated, as well as the transformer station being altered.
 
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pharmakos

pharmakos

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Phazael said:
To be fair, the older power plants in small rural towns like that one are much simpler than the more complex modern ones. And with good maintenance, these older ones can last forever. Available raw materials for that maintenance is the biggest concern, particularly lubricants as stated, as well as the transformer station being altered.
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Yeah not to cite sci-fi over actual science, but there's a reason that so many sci-fi writers use hydroelectric plants to host computer setups that last decades without human maintenance. Because it's very feasible that those turbines keep spinning for a long time as long as the river keeps flowing.
 
pharmakos

pharmakos

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Funny enough, I have a feeling that my factory and their lack of concern for quality control is part of why this recall happened lol:

www.thecarconnection.com

Tesla Model S recalled for risk of hood flying open

A misaligned secondary hood latch in the Tesla Model S could cause the hood to pop open while driving.
www.thecarconnection.com www.thecarconnection.com

The hole where the latch goes through the liner we made is one of the things that used to migrate, that we had to adjust the program for. The materials were so expensive that our bosses ended up shipping liners that didn't match specs. Us operators did our best but there was only so much we can do when the bosses are breathing down our necks pushing us.
 
pharmakos

pharmakos

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Sorry for multiple posts but pondering it, I concede that perhaps my position here in Mid-Michigan, where the manufacturing industry has been one of the main employers for over 100 years, gives me a different take on it. There's probably dozens of CNC operators within a mile of me right now. Shit I know guys that could tool a whole new die for a part if we needed, factory I used to work at used to build metal frames for some pretty big machinery. Lots of welders around. Etc.. We'd figure that shit out even if I didn't do it on my own.
 
Cybsled

Cybsled

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Right. Plus being only 20 years out, you would still have a lot of people with 1st hand experience working these sorts of things. It’s not like a Fallout situation where 150 years have gone by
 
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BrutulTM

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Maybe, but 95% of people are dead or gone now. The more specialized something is, the less likely that someone who knows about it will still be around, and those CNC mills last for 30 years but the tools don't, or coolant/lubricant. Most of them run on 3 phase power too so you don't just plug them into a generator and of course you won't be able to replace filters or parts that break or the vise you chopped in half when you put 20 instead of 2 into your CNC program. Ever used a 20 year old computer?
 
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Edaw

Edaw

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BrutulTM said:
Maybe, but 95% of people are dead or gone now. The more specialized something is, the less likely that someone who knows about it will still be around.
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Having above average intelligence and practical skills would, I hope, account for a greater chance of survival, so the population demographics probably shift considerably pre/post-apocalypse.
 
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pharmakos

pharmakos

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BrutulTM said:
Maybe, but 95% of people are dead or gone now. The more specialized something is, the less likely that someone who knows about it will still be around, and those CNC mills last for 30 years but the tools don't, or coolant/lubricant. Most of them run on 3 phase power too so you don't just plug them into a generator and of course you won't be able to replace filters or parts that break or the vise you chopped in half when you put 20 instead of 2 into your CNC program. Ever used a 20 year old computer?
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"General intelligence" is both a great predictor of level of technical knowledge of skilled trades AND a great predictor of ability to survive in this type of apocalypse. Most of those 95% are the morons of the world.

Up here in rural Michigan, the skilled trades guys are also the doomsday preppers.
 
Penance

Penance

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"You can't know everything. But you have to believe you can learn anything" great quote from John Carmack
 
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Khane

Khane

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The more the world moves toward technology the worse a "reset" event would be. Books? Where the fuck would you even finds books to teach you shit nowadays? Once the internet is gone most "knowledge" is lost. You don't even need to remember anything anymore. Any information refresh you need is seconds away. Technological advances used to be slow. Learning cutting edge technology in 1920 meant you were essentially an expert for life. Now? You're an expert for about 2 years and you better be constantly learning and adapting.

It wouldn't even have to be an apocalyptic population Wipeout event. Some kind of perpetual electric storm that acted like an EMP would throw all modern societies into pure chaos.
 
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