The Last of Us

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Brodhi

I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.
<Donor>
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It was never that black and white (even If it was I still don't think its much of a moral dilemma.). Letting your kid die to "maybe" come up with a cure isn't something most people would do. It isn't like he had a lot of time to ponder about it, he made the choice any man would. Anyone who thinks he is the "bad guy" because of his actions makes for a good litmus test.
 
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Regime

LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
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This was only a moral debate for me before I had a kid.

I'd smash 8 billion people with a hammer to keep the one I care about happy. The only people that would give me pause are those that are in the Quiznos supply chain. Daddy gets grumpy without his honey bacon clubs.
Quiznos going bankrupt breh
 
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j00t

Silver Baronet of the Realm
7,380
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It was never that black and white (even If it was I still don't think its much of a moral dilemma.). Letting your kid die to "maybe" come up with a cure isn't something most people would do. It isn't like he had a lot of time to ponder about it, he made the choice any man would. Anyone who thinks he is the "bad guy" because of his actions makes for a good litmus test.

Yeah I'd agree with this, and I think that's why it resonated with people so much. Joel does A LOT of bad things but he is absolutely not a villian.

But again, there are consequences for our actions, good or bad. Joel went and killed A LOT of people. Sure most of those people were cannibals and whatnot, but plenty of them thought they were doing the right thing.

I'm absolutely not bagging on Joel, he's an amazing character. I'm just saying a story from the perspective of someone who lost someone close to them because of Joel being selfish could be interesting. IF it's done right I don't know if this is an example of that
 

Daezuel

Potato del Grande
23,404
50,184
Yes, we hate homosexuals, people of different color, and women all because we think your story is fucking retarded.

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Vorph

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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"People of color" was a term in the 90s?
Yes. Cobain was like the proto-sjw, born 25 years too early. That quote is from the liner notes for Incesticide, and the whole thing could easily be mistaken for some batshit insane leftist's blog entry.
 
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Mao

Trakanon Raider
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So, I would have a lot more sympathy for the 'Joel is a monster who damned the world' spin, if they didn't make it the absolute worst position possible for him. He is attacked, wakes up in a prison cell with none of his stuff. Ellie is missing. They tell him Ellie is going to get her head cracked open and die for the 'greater good.' He doesn't believe in the scientists really, cause why would he, he has no proof? And they are jumping straight to 'lets crack her head open.' and not like, lets draw samples and test. Also, they have him in prison with none of his kit, and are basically unspokenly threatening him. He asks to speak to Ellie, to get her confirmation. They refuse. So now he doubts that its her choice as well and has reason to believe she is now being murdered against her will. They make no attempt at all to better the situation, and from his point of view I would totally see them as people who are going to murder a young girl for their revolutionary ideology and hope of finding a cure to use it to not only save mankind from the disease but also usher in a 'better age.' Joel doesn't believe in the Fireflies. He never did. Given his complete lack of faith in such groups cause of his history, I see him as having no other real option that is acceptable.

Add to that the journal entries from the woman who was Ellie's caretaker, where its rather obvious she herself questions her course of action but sells herself on the faith of the ideology and saving the world? The Greater Good? Yeah, they could have done a lot of things to smooth over the situation with Joel, but they didn't and I can't really buy they were looking at a high probability of success.

On its face, its a 'the good of the one vs the good of the many' combined with Joel's apparent selfishness, but I can't help but see the Fireflies as being selfish and fanatical, committed to their ends no matter the cost. You see that at the very beginning when Joel and Trish are talking about the Fireflies terrorist attacks on the food center, iirc, and there is nothing shown to change that opinion throughout the game. That was one of the things I found interesting about TLoU. The Fireflies are the 'good guys' but only because of their propaganda. Their actions don't really seem any different and there is nothing to make you think they are actually 'good' presented in the game. Just propaganda broadcasts and flyers.

Edited to add in, cause I just remembered. He was attacked /while giving rescue breathing to Ellie/. If I recall, he actually asks for help from them and they beat him. That is not the action of people who you would trust and have faith in. They are not the good guys.
 
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Noodleface

A Mod Real Quick
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Yes. Cobain was like the proto-sjw, born 25 years too early. That quote is from the liner notes for Incesticide, and the whole thing could easily be mistaken for some batshit insane leftist's blog entry.
Only difference is when he was alive gay rights was a real issue. Now the LGTBQAWRXYZTSH+ community wants the only rights
 
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Ritley

Karazhan Raider
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Yeah I'd agree with this, and I think that's why it resonated with people so much. Joel does A LOT of bad things but he is absolutely not a villian.

But again, there are consequences for our actions, good or bad. Joel went and killed A LOT of people. Sure most of those people were cannibals and whatnot, but plenty of them thought they were doing the right thing.

I'm absolutely not bagging on Joel, he's an amazing character. I'm just saying a story from the perspective of someone who lost someone close to them because of Joel being selfish could be interesting. IF it's done right I don't know if this is an example of that
Until the end, who did he kill doing the right thing? And even then, they kidnapped the girl he was trying to protect and held him at gunpoint while they told him they were going to sacrifice her for research into a cure. Fuck yeah he’s going to murder his way out of that
 

Wingz

Being Poor Sucks.
13,043
40,311
Remember that bitch Anita Sarkeesian from Femenist Frequency was heavily involved in this.

 
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Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
<Gold Donor>
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You would have thought anyone in the industry by now would learned not to take that Anita piece of garbage on as a “consultant” after the ME:A disaster. But nope.

Sony better muzzle the fuck out of druckmann soon if they know what’s good for them.
 
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