The NSA watches you poop.

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Beef Supreme_sl

shitlord
1,207
0
No one on this board truly knows how much data is being stored and with what tool(s) it's being analyzed with.

The problem is that through FISA, the government can rubber stamp pretty much anything without any oversight, and if anyone asks, then they all yell in unison. "National Security! Herp derp!".

There should be transparency where there is none. We 100% don't need this level of government spying as there is no value to the citizens of these governments. We aren't stopping terror, because we are the terrorists.
 

Dyvim

Bronze Knight of the Realm
1,420
195
Spying is never about terror (although they tell us so), its all about power.
 

BoldW

Molten Core Raider
2,081
25
I'm not saying "i know what I'm talking about because I have a clearance." I'm saying "BoldW doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about and doesn't bother to learn." I spent years attending briefings and training and shit related to opsec, intel oversight, classified markings, etc.
Dude, I, and the majority of the people in the country, can't and aren't going to spend years learning whatever you know. And it still does not change the facts. We've already gone over the Snowden thing, and I didn't mention anything that he said, I already said I don't care about him, and only referenced documents he produced, which, as of yet, have not been "debunked" and the general consensus, from people with your type of clearance or whatever, government officials, journalists who do research the stuff - and who have accountability and peer review processes, integrity (with major outlets if we're talking news), etc. - is that the documents are real. These documents shed light on extremely questionable policies and practices which very well may (and to me, do) show that my constitutional rights have been violated. As Beef said, there's no transparency and no accountability at this point. Because no one can prove otherwise, the evidence points to my private information being stolen by the government, and again, at this point, looks like there's very little oversight into what gets done with it. The fact that it's stolen in the first place causes my blood to boil.

Clearance or not (and I'm very happy for you that you took the time to learn all that stuff and get certified or whatever), it is the government's burden to prove to me that my rights aren't being violated.

P.S. I'm sorry I called you an Idiot.
 

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor
17,324
4,839
Dude, I, and the majority of the people in the country, can't and aren't going to spend years learning whatever you know. And it still does not change the facts. We've already gone over the Snowden thing, and I didn't mention anything that he said, I already said I don't care about him, and only referenced documents he produced, which, as of yet, have not been "debunked" and the general consensus, from people with your type of clearance or whatever, government officials, journalists who do research the stuff - and who have accountability and peer review processes, integrity (with major outlets if we're talking news), etc. - is that the documents are real. These documents shed light on extremely questionable policies and practices which very well may (and to me, do) show that my constitutional rights have been violated. As Beef said, there's no transparency and no accountability at this point. Because no one can prove otherwise, the evidence points to my private information being stolen by the government, and again, at this point, looks like there's very little oversight into what gets done with it. The fact that it's stolen in the first place causes my blood to boil.

Clearance or not (and I'm very happy for you that you took the time to learn all that stuff and get certified or whatever), it is the government's burden to prove to me that my rights aren't being violated.

P.S. I'm sorry I called you an Idiot.
Bro, I just do the required training, everyone who works in a cleared environment does it, it isn't like I work in security. This stuff is basic, though. Like the FISA courts having no authority over US citizens (you know, minus exceptions). Like, according to this guy, and only his word, the analysts at the NSA have the ability to tap any and every phone in the US with no oversight or warrant, US citizen or not. It just isn't true, and there is no corroboration beyond what he said, and it is being reported over and over. The PRIZM documents are the only ones I have seen, and I'm sure they are real. Why wouldn't they be? I don't think that is the full story on the program, and I believe Google and Facebook and the rest of them when they say they paint a very limited picture, and not very accurate without the full context. And I believe them when they say they fought these requests in the FISA courts.

I don't know if your constitutional rights have been violated, and neither do you. Like I said before, the government is doing what we, collectively, empowered them to do. It is a little late to get upset about that. But better late than never, I guess. You are never going to get the transparency that you are looking for.
 

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor
17,324
4,839
Who is "they?" The government in general? Of course. Some lone analyst with no oversight and no authorization? Of course not. It is ridiculous. We can't even use USB devices, but they are going to just give people the keys to the fucking kingdom? It doesn't make any logical sense, at all. I don;t understand why anyone would believe that, especially with the only evidence being "Snowden said."The case you cited was within the bounds of the Patriot Act and the FISA amendment. Start voting for politicians who will repeal this shit or something, i don't know. Who will do anything other than fake gun control and trying to repeal Obamacare over and over.
 

Magimaster

Trakanon Raider
559
1,390
Who is "they?" The government in general? Of course. Some lone analyst with no oversight and no authorization? Of course not. It is ridiculous. We can't even use USB devices, but they are going to just give people the keys to the fucking kingdom? It doesn't make any logical sense, at all. I don;t understand why anyone would believe that, especially with the only evidence being "Snowden said."The case you cited was within the bounds of the Patriot Act and the FISA amendment. Start voting for politicians who will repeal this shit or something, i don't know. Who will do anything other than fake gun control and trying to repeal Obamacare over and over.
Just to echo what chaos has said. The 'government' is not some nebulous spooky aliens machine. Its made up of people, there is no 'us vs them' its all just 'us'. Stop sending stupid ass people there and you might stop getting stupid ass shit out.
 

iannis

Musty Nester
31,351
17,660
Many different people from many different fields have clearances. To me it sounds like chaos is a security officer or something else to do with opsec.

Edit- if that is the case I get his point of view on the subject.
I'm 90% sure that Chaos works in MiniPlenty. I don't know exactly what he does, but I suspect it involves growing and then burning giant bonfires of cabbage just so the proles starve.
 

Big Phoenix

Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
<Gold Donor>
47,229
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Who is "they?" The government in general? O:-Of course. Some lone analyst with no oversight and no authorization? Of course not. It is ridiculous. We can't even use USB devices, but they are going to just give people the keys to the fucking kingdom? It doesn't make any logical sense, at all. I don;t understand why anyone would believe that, especially with the only evidence being "Snowden said."The case you cited was within the bounds of the Patriot Act and the FISA amendment. Start voting for politicians who will repeal this shit or something, i don't know. Who will do anything other than fake gun control and trying to repeal Obamacare over and over.
When is the last time you voted on the judges who sit on the circuit courts or the supreme court? Piece of shit politicians are part of the equation.
 

a_skeleton_03

<Banned>
29,948
29,763
You seriously think they dont have the power to tap any phone or access any electronic communication they want to?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepting_v._AT%26T

Governments should not keep secrets from its people.
Like I said having worked in a government switchboard after 9/11 they just don't do it. They do the paperwork, it's not hard. They bring the evidence they have and a judge gives them a warrant. They follow the letter as much as possible and 99.9% of the time it's done correctly.
 

Torrid

Molten Core Raider
926
611
Snowden is a patriot and a hero. Our corrupt government only validates his claims by charging him with espionage.

This makes the 7th indictment brought under the controversial 1917 Espionage Act from this administration. It had been usedthree times previouslyin the entire history of the nearly century old law. A law signed by a president (Wilson) who thought it didn't go far enough, reasoning quote: "Authority to exercise censorship over the press ... is absolutely necessary to the public safety" After Wilson's overt press censorship language was removed from the 1917 bill, he got what he wanted when his congress passed the short-lived Sedition Act of 1918. It was repealed in 1920.

The claims made that the NSA are only capturing metadata are bullshit. You don't build a 1.5 million square feet datacenter with its own power plant just to store metadata. They are storing everything they can get their hands on, storing it in their own secret database, and pinky swearing to us that they don't take a peek at it without a secret FISA rubber stamp-- a stampdenied 11 out of 33,900 times. The entire operation is administrated by Keith Alexander-- the 4 star generalwith the nickname 'emperor'who was also the guy who ordered the original illegal wiretaps after 9/11 which Obama liked enough to give him star number four and that Obama made 'legal' instead of terminating after campaigning against it. It is conveniently difficult to challenge the constitutionality of secret laws, hence the quotes.

Secret laws were common in Soviet Russia btw. Here in the US, you're supposed to have the right to know what you are being arrested for. How contradictory laws like this can exist, I don't know. Probably similar to how full scale data collection and storage of every communication in a government database doesn't apparently technically count as wiretapping as long as they don't look at their own database. Somebody in court for piracy should just claim that they never watched the movie they downloaded and therefore it was not piracy.

The Director of National Intelligence is James Clapper, who just lied under oath to congress a few months ago, and will not be punished for it; just like Obama failed to punish anybody who tortured in our names, or any of the crooks for the financial crisis-- even though we have emails of bankers admitting guilt saying point blank "Lord help our fucking scam". Of course Obama jails whistleblowers at rates never seen before in his self proclaimed 'new era of open government' and apparently has no problem executing American citizens without trial-- and oops! the 16 year old American son of one of the American citizens he authorized a kill order on, so it's not surprising he would care little about something as trivial as privacy.

Anybody who knows a goddamn thing about IT knows the admin has complete control. He has access to anything in his system. If he wants to look at something in the system, he can, and then erase the logs (if any) of his accesses afterward. All the so-called oversight means jack shit when the technological barrier is gone and the laws are unenforceable. The NSA answers to a committee that is comprised of congresspeople with a 10% approval rating and can barely use Twitter. The Intelligence Committee is chaired by the Senator most eager to ban guns and was born before televisions existed and I'm supposed to be assured that these programs have civilian oversight because these people were voted into office?

Government surveillance abuses like theFBI pressuring Martin Luther King Jr. to commit suicidedon't happen anymore, you say? Today's government is more professional and civic minded you say?

Wrong.

Faulk says he and others in his section of the NSA facility at Fort Gordon routinely shared salacious or tantalizing phone calls that had been intercepted, alerting office mates to certain time codes of "cuts" that were available on each operator's computer.

"Hey, check this out," Faulk says he would be told, "there's good phone sex or there's some pillow talk, pull up this call, it's really funny, go check it out. It would be some colonel making pillow talk and we would say, 'Wow, this was crazy'," Faulk told ABC News.
Even if you trust Obama and his NSA, we change administrations every 4 or 8 years. Kennedy died in '63. Nixon was elected in '68.

"We're a turnkey away from a police state." -- Daniel Ellsberg.
 

Dyvim

Bronze Knight of the Realm
1,420
195
Exactly Torrid and why you guys think they couldnt / wouldnt tap your phonecalls on a whim is beyond me.
Heck even my aunt knows they are getting spyied on when she calls her ex (hes some top dog in the army, my guess is counterintelligence) on the phone, they joke openly about it and let it happen.
Do you think someone asks her for permission to listen when she calls him from overseas?
The surveillance has been there and used for decades prolly, just today everyone gets potentially listened to and not only the top dogs who could be eventually charged with high treason or something.
 

Loser Araysar

Chief Russia Reporter. Stock Pals CEO. Head of AI.
<Gold Donor>
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The guy who wrote the expose that brought McChrystal down has just died in a 100+ mph car accident in LA by hitting a tree.

Apparently he wrote an email hours before his death that he was working on a big story re: FBI/NSA and that he was going to go off the radar for a bit. He also contacted the legal counsel for wiki leaks hours before his death.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...,2806628.story

If that's all true then its pretty scary what Snowden was really up against
 

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor
17,324
4,839
This makes the 7th indictment brought under the controversial 1917 Espionage Act from this administration. It had been usedthree times previouslyin the entire history of the nearly century old law.
Not true. For the second time in this thread. The reporter in question references using the law against "whistleblowers", not using the law period. The government doesn't consider him a whislteblower so it doesn't really apply, it is just a reporter framing a question i a certain way to try and make a point.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
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The guy who wrote the expose that brought McChrystal down has just died in a 100+ mph car accident in LA by hitting a tree.

Apparently he wrote an email hours before his death that he was working on a big story re: FBI/NSA and that he was going to go off the radar for a bit. He also contacted the legal counsel for wiki leaks hours before his death.
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...,2806628.story

If that's all true then its pretty scary what Snowden was really up against
Yeah this could be a crazy coincidence or it could be really conspiratorial.
 

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor
17,324
4,839
Exactly Torrid and why you guys think they couldnt / wouldnt tap your phonecalls on a whim is beyond me.
Heck even my aunt knows they are getting spyied on when she calls her ex (hes some top dog in the army, my guess is counterintelligence) on the phone, they joke openly about it and let it happen.
Do you think someone asks her for permission to listen when she calls him from overseas?
The surveillance has been there and used for decades prolly, just today everyone gets potentially listened to and not only the top dogs who could be eventually charged with high treason or something.
Everyone who uses government equipment consents to being monitored. Outside of that, no, it is silly. You think the NSA employs tens of thousands of analysts to screen every single phone call? That they give carte blanche to low level analysts to listen in on whatever they want, whenever they want? That they went through the trouble of creating this huge "FISA" thing, which is secret anyway, only to just install "Tap phone now!" buttons in every NSA cubicle? It is silly, it doesn't hold up to even the most basic logical scrutiny.
 

Dyvim

Bronze Knight of the Realm
1,420
195
Everyone who uses government equipment consents to being monitored. Outside of that, no, it is silly. You think the NSA employs tens of thousands of analysts to screen every single phone call? That they give carte blanche to low level analysts to listen in on whatever they want, whenever they want? That they went through the trouble of creating this huge "FISA" thing, which is secret anyway, only to just install "Tap phone now!" buttons in every NSA cubicle? It is silly, it doesn't hold up to even the most basic logical scrutiny.
No they they use the Tap phone buttons on people they deem worthy of it, and thats determined by analysing the data theyre collecting, everyone gets a score and if hits a critical point your under surveilance and everyone youre calling, mailing, handholding with you. Point is noone knows its own score, ore if the analysis about yourself is nearly correct, cause you know its all secret but 100% legal, they promised after all.
Back in they day you def had a small chance to know youre under suspicion cause the trenchcoats had to head out and recruit informants, (bribing, blackmailing, promising shit etc.) and that could be refused. Today all they need to do is fill out a paper and sent it to godknowswho for approval and be good to access all your data stored.