The NSA watches you poop.

Soriak_sl said:

A billion per day doesn't sound like much? According to wiki answers, that's about 10% of global phone calls. That seems fairly substantial for one agency.

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Wasn't the media throwing around a 3 billion number just for US provider call records? The US is far less than 30% of the share of phone calls in the world, so I'm betting that figure is far out of date.

Fromhttp://www.democraticunderground.com/10023048236just for the US there's 2 billion calls per day (2012) and 5 billion texts (2009). Worldwide there's 294 billion email messages per day with 90% junk ratio.

So yes, 1 billion a day really doesn't sound like much even before waste and junk ratios are considered.

I haven't followed the story much because media sensationalism and story-telling rather than news reporting has kind of turned me off, but from what little I read, it appears this man exposed wildly unconstitutional acts by the NSA at great peril to himself. Sounds like a hero to me. What am I missing? He stole the information? Is that it? Rarely do whistleblowers have the luxury of not breaking some rule to expose the truth. I couldn't care less about that.

The saga of the Bolivian president's plane rolls on:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...en-asylum-live

It's a very confusing picture. Austria says they looked and Snowden is not on board but the Bolivians say no-one was allowed onto the plane. The Bolivians and Austrians say France and Spain refused to allow the plane to cross their airspace because they thought Snowden was on board, but France and Spain both deny it and say the plane was free to travel.

*edit* The Bolivians now say the plane was searched and is "an act of aggression and a violation of international law"

What is certain is that the Bolivians are very annoyed indeed and are going to call a meeting of South American countries over the way their president has been treated. I think the chances of Snowden getting asylum there have shot up, if he can make it out of Russia. The Austrians are also pissed off because they feel France and Spain dumped the problem into their lap.

Dabamf_sl said:

I haven't followed the story much because media sensationalism and story-telling rather than news reporting has kind of turned me off, but from what little I read, it appears this man exposed wildly unconstitutional acts by the NSA at great peril to himself. Sounds like a hero to me. What am I missing? He stole the information? Is that it? Rarely do whistleblowers have the luxury of not breaking some rule to expose the truth. I couldn't care less about that.

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http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate...a_secrets.html

Nothing that has been released so far is illegal and he was not compelled by any sense of patriotism. He went there to grab as much as he could and release it, straight up intending to commit espionage from day 1.

Frankly, with a huge leak from a person like that I expected something much more damning would already be released, but it hasn't. The media would (and presumably has) choose the most shocking and rating-grabbing stories first. So the biggest awe value was US privacy concerns? That they're getting court orders for call records and some data from the big companies? Color me not impressed at all. But who knows, maybe the media has some long suspense plan building and we're actually going to see something that won't be bumped from the news by the latest "Squirrel!" celebrity story or scandal.

Malakriss_sl said:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate...a_secrets.html

Nothing that has been released so far is illegal and he was not compelled by any sense of patriotism. He went there to grab as much as he could and release it, straight up intending to commit espionage from day 1.

Frankly, with a huge leak from a person like that I expected something much more damning would already be released, but it hasn't. The media would (and presumably has) choose the most shocking and rating-grabbing stories first. So the biggest awe value was US privacy concerns? That they're getting court orders for call records and some data from the big companies? Color me not impressed at all. But who knows, maybe the media has some long suspense plan building and we're actually going to see something that won't be bumped from the news by the latest "Squirrel!" celebrity story or scandal.

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They keep threatening that he is going to release some new, world-altering stuff. Instead him and the reporter just keep talking about it instead of releasing it.

Araysar_sl said:

It's hilarious how high some people set the bar just because they instinctively dislike whistleblowers. "Real time recording of all email, IMs and a billion phone calls a day without warrants is not good enough for me! Unless he has a jar with an alien fetus in it from Area 51, I don't give a shit!"

What would you exactly consider damning?

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Let me ask you straight up, what the hell do you think their job is? It isn't to serve warrants and subpeonas to foreign companies for every terrorist and spy in the world and politely ask for their info. I only expect court order and warrants if it's US based where our laws actually apply. Which evidently is exactly what's happening.

What I would consider damning is if they're actually taking over cars and sending them out of control to kill people (in any country). Damning would be completely advanced technology way beyond what's publicly available. Damning would be mass conspiracy against the US population. Haven't seen any of that. I don't know why people would expect them to have information on aliens or whatever, too many people watching bad movies.

The problem is the disconnect between what they are saying and what they have released. They have released information about programs that fall well within the realm of applicable laws and point to collection that we gave them authorization to do, collectively. But then they say stuff about them intercepting all internet traffic or manning death rays or whatever. To me, it hurts their credibility. If you have something that shows the NSA actually intercepting internet traffic in such a way, show it. If not, shut up. You're just another conspiracy nut at that point.

The problem is basically trust. Do you trust the people who are making these decisions? The Snowden case for me shows that you really can't trust them.

For example, last year the director of the NSA said that stories claiming they had millions of records on peoples communications was "completely false." The director of national intelligence this year stood up before the Senate Intelligence committee and was directly asked about these allegations:

"[when asked whether] the National Security Agency (NSA) collected "any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?"
Clapper answered, "No, sir."

A few months later we find out both men were knowingly telling lies; in the latter case to the very people who are supposed to be checking they do not exceed their mandate.

So the question comes back to: do you trust them?

What specifically is this "data on Americans" you are referencing. Please try to frame this in the context that wouldn't make every advertising company in the world laugh at you and high five each other since you're not asking the "do you trust them" question in their direction.

Bro, EVERY DOCUMENT that has been released has related to foreign surveillance.

I don't think Araysar knows what each agency's responsibilities are... this is sad.

Edit: That's probably why he didn't answer what he thought their jobs are.

It's fucking disgusting how far our politicians go to appease Obama. Why do we even bother with elections if they take their orders from the White House? Imagine some country grounding Air Force One until they get to search it.

To make it even worse, they're so fucking two faced about it. Hollande demanding a stop on PRISM against France, but when it comes to capturing Snowden, he's more than willing to bend fucking over and help.

Prism is vile. Tempora is vile. It needs to be stopped and the whole notion of secret services needs to be reviewed. If our supposed free and liberal societies only work with that much secrecy and behind closed doors decision making, then apparently the whole society idea needs to be reviewed.


Remember the NSA faked evidence to get the US involved in Vietnam? Lessons learned, I guess.

Nothing that has been released so far is illegal and he was not compelled by any sense of patriotism.

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First, that is your claim about patriotism. He obviously could have a different idea whether the US should engage in something such as Prism.

And with it being legal, why is it in secret? Big Data (replacing Big Brother) is not about collecting all these tiny pieces of information, but about combining them into profiles about everyone. 30 of your states use exactly this type of data to decide whether a criminal gets released on parole. Not how he acts or how he presents himself, but what the odds are that he'll be involved in another crime within 12 months. and that is what prism is about. not about the present but about what people will do in the future.

And behind this whole Snowden thing this is getting pushed into the background, that is why Snowden won't be captured for another week or however it takes until the whole thing blows over. The news about his chase will outlast the news about Prism.

Malakriss_sl said:

I don't think Araysar knows what each agency's responsibilities are... this is sad.

Edit: That's probably why he didn't answer what he thought their jobs are.

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NSA- Digital Spies
CIA- Conventional Spies
FBI- Aliens

It is in secret because we don't want ya'll motherfuckers knowing how or why we collect intelligence. Is that even a serious question?

I hope they do catch him and he really does have a dead man switch. Let's see all this shit instead of hearing him or the reporter talk about it.

Weird, for some reason I thought France was one of the top five hacker countries but googling shows Germany instead. So I'll just raise an eyebrow in Quineloe's direction.

chaos_sl said:

It is in secret because we don't want ya'll motherfuckers knowing how or why we collect intelligence. Is that even a serious question?

I hope they do catch him and he really does have a dead man switch. Let's see all this shit instead of hearing him or the reporter talk about it.

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So it's so secret that lying to congress about it is A-ok?

Weird, for some reason I thought France was one of the top five hacker countries but googling shows Germany instead. So I'll just raise an eyebrow in Quineloe's direction.

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What nonsense are you putting into google and how are the results relevant here?