The NSA watches you poop.

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TomServo

<Bronze Donator>
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@JusticeSotomayor said:

"More fundamentally, it may be necessary to reconsider the premise that an individual has no reasonable expectation of privacy in information voluntarily disclosed to third parties. E.g., Smith, 442 U. S., at 742; United States v. Miller, 425 U. S. 435, 443 (1976). This approach is ill suited to the digital age, in which people reveal a great deal of information about themselves to third parties in the course of carrying out mundane tasks. People disclose the phone numbers that they dial or text to their cellular providers; the URLs that they visit and the e-mail addresses with which they correspond to their Internet service providers; and the books, groceries, and medications they purchase to online retailers. Perhaps, as JUSTICE ALITO notes, some people may find the ?tradeoff? of privacy for convenience ?worthwhile,? or come to accept this ?diminution of privacy? as ?inevitable,? post, at 10, and perhaps not. I for one doubt that people would accept without complaint the warrantless disclosure to the Government of a list of every Web site they had visited in the last week, or month, or year. But whatever the societal expectations, they can attain constitutionally protected status only if our Fourth Amendment jurisprudence ceases to treat secrecy as a prerequisite for privacy. I would not assume that all information voluntarily disclosed to some member of the public for a limited purpose is, for that reason alone, disentitled to Fourth Amendment protection. See Smith, 442 U. S., at 749 (Marshall, J., dissenting) (?Privacy is not a discrete commodity, possessed absolutely or not at all. Those who disclose certain facts to a bank or phone company for a limited business purpose need not assume that this information will be released to other persons for other purposes?); see also Katz, 389 U. S., at 351?352 (?[W]hat [a person] seeks to preserve as private, even in an area accessible to the public, may be constitutionally protected?)."
This entire discussion hinges around this idea right here, and all the herp derping and straw-man-ad hominem douchery is all fucking noise signifying nothing.
 

Agraza

Registered Hutt
6,890
521
On the old foh it seems like that would have summoned the lawyers to lawyer at each other for several pages of boring. They've been rare spawn round here though. I see what she's saying though. Our legal definition of privacy and/or secrecy should probably be more broadly construed to the benefit of the individual, rather than the state.
 

iannis

Musty Nester
31,351
17,657
("[W]hat [a person] seeks to preserve as private, even in an area accessible to the public, may be constitutionally protected")."
I have never understood this syntax of quoting.

[a person] I can wrap my head around. I can see the use and need for that.

[W]hat seems absolutely excessive. Like you're just throwing extra punctuation in there to make it look cooler.
 

TomServo

<Bronze Donator>
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Rights are always interpreted broadly, and laws are mean't to be far more narrowly applied. THEN they eventually will be ruled on by the Supreme Court as far as constitutionality.
 

Agraza

Registered Hutt
6,890
521
Legalese is the new latin. Priests didn't want you to READ the bible and find out shit they doing ain't in it. Same shit with the law. They don't want you to understand it. This way you're always guilty of SOMETHING. You don't fart enough, misdemeanor. It's probably in there somewhere.
 

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor
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4,839
Chaos I suspect you don't hold an sort of meaningful clearance if you are on the boards all damn day shilling.
Bro, I work in front of a computer supervising knuckleheads who monitor and maintain networks. I tend to have some downtime occasionally.
 

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor
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4,839
Yeah, totally the same thing. Remember when Daniel Ellsberg got a job at the Pentagon with the explicit purpose of finding information, any information, to leak? And remember when he fabricated keys to gain access to information he didn't have using administrator access? And remember when instead of trying to take his concerns to people, perhaps Congress or the Senate or IG or any of a hundred places, he just fled the country and began leaking information to people he met through his film studio contacts? The similarities are eerie, really.
 

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor
17,324
4,839
Oh man if Obama had offered him a pardon even -I- would be raged. And I certainly don't think that Snowden deserves to DIE (capital offense -- that means our righteous government is threatening his ass with summary execution) for his crime. But an Obama pardon?

Tad would have had to made some room on the conspiracy bench, cause my ass would be sitting right next to him and we'd play a fun game of "who can yell the loudest?"
Well I don't really go for capital punishment in general, certainly not for this. But to say he should have been pardoned, like to actually expect that as a possibility, is just ludicrous.
 

Agraza

Registered Hutt
6,890
521
I wonder if he's a conspiracy type of guy? He seemed pretty calm and normal in that short interview (in hong kong?) a week or whatever ago. When I heard, I figured he'd be some loonie or this shit would be hardcore. My characterization of him is still developing. I guess maybe the EU thinks its hardcore. Isn't it normal for us to spy on each others' embassies? They're all in the capital anyway right? It's not like they park them in Wyoming for privacy.
 

Agraza

Registered Hutt
6,890
521
bitch you linked that before, when I made some statement about how I'm cool with surveillance because I'm legit. I enjoyed reading it. I am concerned, and it has colored my perception of this shit.
 

Torrid

Molten Core Raider
926
611
Isn't it normal for us to spy on each others' embassies? They're all in the capital anyway right? It's not like they park them in Wyoming for privacy.
Kerry's response to the bugging was amusing. 'It's not unusual, everybody does it!' 1) just because something is commonly done, doesn't make it right, and 2) not everybody does it. You think Luxembourg bugs embassies?

England and the US have a history of clandestine operations/spying/deception. WW2 is full of stories where England made Hitler look like a dumbass such as inflating tank balloons to deceive recon aircraft, fooling bombers to bomb fake cities at night by powering lights in the desert, and deceiving Hitler to believe that Patton was going to land at Calais so strongly that he refused to move two panzer divisions for 14 days after the invasion began. Every country doesn't do this stuff; we're unusual. There is a reason James Bond is British. The US learned from its closest ally.

What makes it worse is that the US hosts the United Nations building and spied there, which is sort of a betrayal of trust and an abuse of the privilege. Not to mention we're supposed to be the 'moral leader' of the world. People expect this crap from Russia, but we're supposed to set a higher standard. To write it off as commonplace and also claim moral superiority is hypocrisy. And Snowden's leak revealed why it was done: for economic advantage.

Germany in particular has a revulsion for this sort of thing because of their history with the Soviets and the Stasi. They don't do this stuff. There were growing calls in Germany to grant Snowden asylum and I was hoping Snowden might have been able to go there.
 

Loser Araysar

Chief Russia Reporter. Stock Pals CEO. Head of AI.
<Gold Donor>
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Statement from Edward Snowden in Moscow

Monday July 1, 21:40 UTC

One week ago I left Hong Kong after it became clear that my freedom and safety were under threat for revealing the truth. My continued liberty has been owed to the efforts of friends new and old, family, and others who I have never met and probably never will. I trusted them with my life and they returned that trust with a faith in me for which I will always be thankful.

On Thursday, President Obama declared before the world that he would not permit any diplomatic "wheeling and dealing" over my case. Yet now it is being reported that after promising not to do so, the President ordered his Vice President to pressure the leaders of nations from which I have requested protection to deny my asylum petitions.

This kind of deception from a world leader is not justice, and neither is the extralegal penalty of exile. These are the old, bad tools of political aggression. Their purpose is to frighten, not me, but those who would come after me.

For decades the United States of America has been one of the strongest defenders of the human right to seek asylum. Sadly, this right, laid out and voted for by the U.S. in Article 14 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, is now being rejected by the current government of my country. The Obama administration has now adopted the strategy of using citizenship as a weapon. Although I am convicted of nothing, it has unilaterally revoked my passport, leaving me a stateless person. Without any judicial order, the administration now seeks to stop me exercising a basic right. A right that belongs to everybody. The right to seek asylum.

In the end the Obama administration is not afraid of whistleblowers like me, Bradley Manning or Thomas Drake. We are stateless, imprisoned, or powerless. No, the Obama administration is afraid of you. It is afraid of an informed, angry public demanding the constitutional government it was promised - and it should be.

I am unbowed in my convictions and impressed at the efforts taken by so many.

Edward Joseph Snowden

Monday 1st July 2013
 

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor
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"My basic right to evade prosecution for my crimes." It must be lonely up there on that cross.
 

Malakriss

Golden Baronet of the Realm
12,756
12,145
"This kind of deception from..."

What the fuck does he think he was doing while stealing the information, pokerfacing?
 

Loser Araysar

Chief Russia Reporter. Stock Pals CEO. Head of AI.
<Gold Donor>
81,724
163,443
"My basic right to evade prosecution for my crimes." It must be lonely up there on that cross.
A "crime" due to a law passed by the criminal to prevent citizens from exposing its crimes *snert*.

Pardon me while I laugh at that line of reasoning.
 

Hekotat

FoH nuclear response team
12,406
12,215
Sadly after all this is said and done U.S. citizens still won't give a fuck and just take it as per usual and the government won't learn anything form it either.


images
 

Loser Araysar

Chief Russia Reporter. Stock Pals CEO. Head of AI.
<Gold Donor>
81,724
163,443
Kremlin: Snowden has given up on plan to stay in Russia
By Matt Smith and Jethro Mullen, CNN
updated 9:16 AM EDT, Tue July 2, 2013

Edward Snowden breaks his silence
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
Russian official says NSA leaker has changed his mind and does not want to remain there
WikiLeaks files Snowden asylum requests with 19 more countries
Other countries on the list include China, India, Brazil, France and Germany
Washington tries to scare "those who would come after me," Snowden statement says
(CNN) -- Edward Snowden has abandoned his effort to seek asylum in Russia after President Vladimir Putin warned that he would have to stop leaking information about U.S. surveillance programs if he wanted to stay, a Russian official said Tuesday.
The anti-secrecy group WikiLeaks said it had submitted asylum requests to 19 more countries for Snowden, the ex-National Security Agency computer contractor who has admitted providing secret documents on surveillance programs to reporters.
Snowden has been holed up at Moscow's Sheremetyevo International Airport for more than a week.
"Snowden did voice a request to remain in Russia," Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Tuesday, according to the Russian news agency RIA Novosti. "Then, yesterday, hearing President Putin outline Russia's position regarding the conditions under which he could do this, he withdrew his request for permission to stay in Russia."
Putin said Monday that Snowden "must stop his work aimed at harming our American partners" if he wanted to stay in the country.
Putin: Russia is not extraditing anyone Putin: Russia is not extraditing anyone Snowden claims U.S. spied on EU Bush on Snowden: He damaged the country
The other countries where WikiLeaks said it had submitted asylum requests on Sunday range from Latin America through Europe and on to Asia.
On Tuesday, Poland said it grants asylum if the country's interests are at stake.
"This particular premise would not be met," the Foreign Ministry said about Snowden's case.
Snowden had already sought asylum in Iceland and in Ecuador, which had said it was considering the request. But recent comments from the Ecuadorian president suggest the South American country's support for Snowden's flight across the globe may be waning.
The United States has been pressing countries to refuse Snowden entry and hand him over to face espionage charges. His disclosures have created a political storm at home and diplomatic headaches abroad for President Barack Obama.
WikiLeaks released a statement attributed to Snowden late Monday in which he blasted the Obama administration for trying to block his efforts to seek refuge.
"These are the old, bad tools of political aggression," Snowden said. "Their purpose is to frighten, not me, but those who would come after me." But he added, "I am unbowed in my convictions and impressed at the efforts taken by so many."
'A stateless person'
WikiLeaks, which has been assisting Snowden's effort to find a haven from the U.S. charges, said that the documents it had submitted for the latest asylum requests "outline the risks of persecution Mr. Snowden faces in the United States and have started to be delivered by the Russian consulate to the relevant embassies in Moscow."
Asylum requests have been sent to the following countries

Austria

Bolivia

Brazil

China

Cuba

Finland

France

Germany

India

Ireland

Italy

The Netherlands

Nicaragua

Norway

Poland

Spain

Switzerland

Venezuela
Peskov said Tuesday that Snowden's asylum requests had been forwarded to 15 countries, the semiofficial Interfax news agency reported. It didn't specify which of the requests hadn't been forwarded.
Snowden has said he was the source of NSA documents leaked to British and U.S. newspapers that revealed details of secret American surveillance programs. He flew to Moscow from Hong Kong after the United States requested his extradition.
Russian officials have said he is in the transit zone of the airport and hasn't passed through immigration into the country's territory. But so far, no reporters have caught sight of Snowden in the expansive area for transiting passengers.
In addition to Russia, WikiLeaks said it had sent new asylum requests to representatives of Austria, Bolivia, Brazil, China, Cuba, Finland, France, Germany, India, Ireland, Italy, the Netherlands, Nicaragua, Norway, Poland, Spain, Switzerland and Venezuela.
In Monday's statement, Snowden criticized the Obama administration for yanking his passport once criminal charges were filed, "leaving me a stateless person." But he said the administration isn't afraid of people like him or others accused of disclosing U.S. secrets.
"No, the Obama administration is afraid of you," he said. "It is afraid of an informed, angry public demanding the constitutional government it was promised -- and it should be."
Ecuador says it's up to Russia
And while Ecuador has said it was considering Snowden's request, President Rafael Correa told the British newspaper The Guardian that the American fugitive would have to reach Ecuadorian territory for his request to be considered.
"Are we responsible for getting him to Ecuador? It's not logical," Correa told The Guardian, one of the recipients of Snowden's leaks. "The country that has to give him a safe conduct document is Russia."
He added that the decision to issue Snowden temporary travel documents that allowed him to leave Hong Kong was "a mistake on our part," The Guardian reported.
Over the weekend, Correa said Vice President Joe Biden has asked Ecuador "to please reject" Snowden's request. And Obama said Monday that Snowden had traveled to Russia without a valid passport or legal papers and that he hoped that Moscow would handle the case as it would any other travel-related matter.
Obama confirmed that the United States and Russia have had "high-level" discussions about Snowden, after an earlier report from Russia that the two nations' top law enforcement officials were working together to resolve the situation.
Snowden says he leaked the classified information because he believes the U.S. surveillance programs he revealed exceed constitutional limits.
But U.S. government officials have defended the measures, describing them as necessary, legal tools in the effort to counter threats against the United States.
Europe fuming over report
Snowden has also disclosed information alleging U.S. spying on other governments.
The German news magazine Der Spiegel reported Sunday that information from Snowden detailed NSA bugging of European Union offices in Washington and New York, as well as an "electronic eavesdropping operation" that tapped into an EU building in Brussels, Belgium.
That report has fueled mounting anger throughout Europe, with French President Francois Hollande threatening to halt talks with the United States on trade and other issues unless the bugging is stopped.
Obama responded to the latest furor Monday, saying that all nations, including those expressing the strongest protests, collect intelligence on each other.
Asked at a news conference in Tanzania about the latest leaks involving Snowden, Obama said he needed more information on the specific programs cited in the Der Spiegel report, but made clear such spying was commonplace.
"I guarantee you that in European capitals, there are people who are interested in, if not what I had for breakfast, at least what my talking points might be should I end up meeting with their leaders," Obama said. "That is how intelligence services operate."
CNN has not independently confirmed the allegations in the Der Spiegel report.
Nations respond to requests
Below is a list of countries' comments on Snowden's asylum requests:
. Austria: His request is not valid, because applicants must be in Austria and submit their applications in person.
. Bolivia: "Yes, why not," Bolivian President Evo Morales said, according to Russia's state-run Itar-Tass news agency, which cited the Russia Today news network. "We are worried at the demeanor of countries such as U.S.A." However, despite WikiLeaks' statement, Morales said Bolivia has not received a request for asylum on Snowden's behalf, Itar-Tass reported.
. Brazil: The country won't grant asylum or even respond to the request, Reuters reported Tuesday, citing a Foreign Ministry spokesman.
. China: The Ministry of Foreign Affairs said Tuesday it had no information to offer on Snowden's case.
. Cuba: No response yet.
. Ecuador: The South American country has said that it's considering Snowden's request but that he needs to reach its territory.
. Finland: No response yet.
. France: No response yet.
. Germany: No response yet.
. Iceland: Officials have said asylum seekers need to be in Icelandic territory in order to apply.
. India: Ministry of External Affairs spokesman Syed Akbaruddin said Tuesday that India will deny the request.
. Ireland: The Irish Justice Ministry declined to confirm whether it had received a request on Snowden's behalf, but said Irish law requires that applicants reach the country's borders before a request can be considered.
. Italy: The Italian Foreign Ministry said it received an asylum request by fax. The country accepts requests done in Italian territory or at the border, the ministry said.
. The Netherlands: No response yet.
. Nicaragua: No response yet.
. Norway: The country confirms the receipt of his request, but usually, asylum seekers must be in the country already to be allowed to apply. The Ministry of Justice is considering whether or not to process his application.
. Poland: Snowden's request for asylum doesn't fulfill requirements, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said Tuesday.
. Russia: Snowden has withdrawn his request for permission to stay in Russia, Kremlin spokesman Peskov said Tuesday, according to the news agency RIA Novosti.
. Spain: The country is not reviewing Snowden's request because it must be made from within or on its borders, a Foreign Ministry spokeswoman said.
. Switzerland: No response yet.
. Venezuela: "We haven't been asked for help, but when he asks, he will have an answer," President Nicolas Maduro said Tuesday.