The NSA watches you poop.

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a_skeleton_03

<Banned>
29,948
29,763
Snowden's revelations will do the following:

1) Slow the expansion of the surveillance state with the worry about it being exposed ever more present and by allowing Intelligence Committee senators to bring up the subject in more detail publicly
2) Hopefully remove the supreme court's excuse that there is no proof that the surveillance is occurring and therefore will have to allow the cases against the programs to proceed
3) Make the traitors involved in the domestic spying more suspicious and less trusting of themselves
4) Allows regular people to opt-out of the spying by abstaining from facebook, google, etc. by either not using them or by using proxies now that they know they are being monitored
Wrong.

Snowden's revelations will do the following:

1) They will go into an even more secretive mode about everything.
2) The intelligence community will be slowed down by lengthy court cases.
3) The people will change nothing about their information usage and sharing habits.
 

Torrid

Molten Core Raider
926
611
1) They will go into an even more secretive mode about everything.
2) The intelligence community will be slowed down by lengthy court cases.
3) The people will change nothing about their information usage and sharing habits.
1) the deeper they go down the hole, the more it motivates more whistleblowers
2) good
3) of course most people won't, but at least now they have a chance, and the privacy minded current events aware individuals can opt-out
 

a_skeleton_03

<Banned>
29,948
29,763
1) the deeper they go down the hole, the more it motivates more whistleblowers
2) good
3) of course most people won't, but at least now they have a chance, and the privacy minded current events aware individuals can opt-out
Now they have a chance? Are you kidding me? They always had a chance to proxy they just never needed to and still don't need to.

Deeper they go the more whistleblowers will come forward? Do you read before you hit post? That is ridiculous. The amount of deep cover things this country does would probably astound you. The only things that have come out are two morons just data dumping to thumb drives and CDs for notoriety. We aren't exactly overflowing with useful whistleblowers for decades now.
 

Mire_sl

shitlord
270
3
Serious question....

If another 9/11 happened tomorrow, would you guys be in favour of expanding the NSA and its activities or be opposed to any further expansion because it failed to help stop it?
 

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
43,950
52,725
Serious question....

If another 9/11 happened tomorrow, would you guys be in favour of expanding the NSA and its activities or be opposed to any further expansion because it failed to help stop it?
Well, I'm not a retarded panicky sheep, so I wouldn't make either decision as a knee-jerk reaction to a terrorist attack.
 

a_skeleton_03

<Banned>
29,948
29,763
And that's why evil will always win. Because good is dumb.
Well and "evil" isn't really all that evil any more. It's dark grey at best and anyone with common sense can spot it a million miles away.

I am baffled at how much credit is given to the government.

I joined an IRC channel while on in flight wifi that had a topic of "Kill President Obama, Fuck the NSA" and did I get any kind of notification at all? I didn't get stopped when I landed, nothing. You would think stuff like that would be monitored, on a plane with real time chat to coordinate an attack and all in plain text, not even SSL. yet you guys are convinced the government is assassinating people driving their C class Benz .......
 

W4RH34D_sl

shitlord
661
3
Well and "evil" isn't really all that evil any more. It's dark grey at best and anyone with common sense can spot it a million miles away.

I am baffled at how much credit is given to the government.

I joined an IRC channel while on in flight wifi that had a topic of "Kill President Obama, Fuck the NSA" and did I get any kind of notification at all? I didn't get stopped when I landed, nothing. You would think stuff like that would be monitored, on a plane with real time chat to coordinate an attack and all in plain text, not even SSL. yet you guys are convinced the government is assassinating people driving their C class Benz .......
Of course they can see! Haven't you seen CSI and NCIS!?!
 

BoldW

Molten Core Raider
2,081
25
Well and "evil" isn't really all that evil any more. It's dark grey at best and anyone with common sense can spot it a million miles away.

I am baffled at how much credit is given to the government.

I joined an IRC channel while on in flight wifi that had a topic of "Kill President Obama, Fuck the NSA" and did I get any kind of notification at all? I didn't get stopped when I landed, nothing. You would think stuff like that would be monitored, on a plane with real time chat to coordinate an attack and all in plain text, not even SSL. yet you guys are convinced the government is assassinating people driving their C class Benz .......
So if they're not monitoring terrorist activity, what exactly are they doing with all our information?

They probably were monitoring the IRC channel and realized you were in there. Being you, they knew there was nothing to worry about.
 

a_skeleton_03

<Banned>
29,948
29,763
So if they're not monitoring terrorist activity, what exactly are they doing with all our information?

They probably were monitoring the IRC channel and realized you were in there. Being you, they knew there was nothing to worry about.
Nothing to worry about? Because I am a government employee? That was a good plan for Snowden wasn't it .....
 

W4RH34D_sl

shitlord
661
3
So if they're not monitoring terrorist activity, what exactly are they doing with all our information?

They probably were monitoring the IRC channel and realized you were in there. Being you, they knew there was nothing to worry about.
They sort it for nudes to run their porn site that is only available outside the US. Why do you think so many people want to come to America?
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,533
599
Serious question....

If another 9/11 happened tomorrow, would you guys be in favour of expanding the NSA and its activities or be opposed to any further expansion because it failed to help stop it?
Better question.

When the next 9/11-level bomb/attack/wtf happens, as it will, will a_skeleton_03, chaos and co. still feel the illegal activities were justified, despite the fact it failed to stop the aforementioned bomb/attack/wtf?
 

BoldW

Molten Core Raider
2,081
25
a) Of course they will, as it is currently stopping the mass bombing of America - sometimes one slips through.

b) To Mire's original Q, expanding the NSA's secret activities no one knows the details of and is already, in my mind, encroaching on my rights? Nope. But I'm sure it will get spun like as you say.
 

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor
17,324
4,839
a) Of course they will, as it is currently stopping the mass bombing of America - sometimes one slips through.

b) To Mire's original Q, expanding the NSA's secret activities no one knows the details of and is already, in my mind, encroaching on my rights? Nope. But I'm sure it will get spun like as you say.
Well... doesn't that happen, though? Is there any such thing as 100% security?

As for the NSA expanding their activities, of course they would. And the people would welcome it, just like they did with the Patriot Act and FISA amendment. People are easily frightened and swallow all manner of shit. Even, and I have to say this again, some of the same people all outraged about the NSA's activities now, the same people who were totally ok with these laws passing and giving the government expanded powers. Or with the expansion of Homeland Security, or whatever it is. People rolled over before, now 10 years later it's outrage time, and if something else happens people will roll over again.
 

Torrid

Molten Core Raider
926
611
Deeper they go the more whistleblowers will come forward? Do you read before you hit post? That is ridiculous. The amount of deep cover things this country does would probably astound you. The only things that have come out are two morons just data dumping to thumb drives and CDs for notoriety. We aren't exactly overflowing with useful whistleblowers for decades now.
William Binney, J. Kirk Wiebe, and Thomas Drake blew the whistle on the NSA's Trailblazer project, another domestic spying program, in 2002. Obama's administration indicted Thomas Drake under the espionage act in 2010.

John Kiriakou blew the whistle on the use of waterboarding in 2007. Obama decided he should go to jail instead of the torturers.

Former Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and "Obama's favorite general" General James Cartwright is the prime suspect in the stuxnet virus leak.

Then there are more less notable leaks, like Stephen Jin-Woo Kim telling Fox News reporter James Rosen that North Korea was planning another (not the first) nuke test. (oh the horror) That was enough to get Kim indicted under the Espionage Act, Rosen's phones tapped, and Rosen being labeled a 'criminal co-conspirator' and a 'flight-risk'.

The drone program was heavily leaked about long before it was publicly acknowledged. Everybody knew about that 16 year old American kid being dead.

Then there are the beneficial leaks that administration(s) like to ignore if not outright contribute to. Leaks about the Osama raid to make that propaganda film for example. Or Bush ordering leaks that bolstered his case for war.

Obama implemented an 'Insider Threat Program' which criminalizes failure to report 'high-risk persons or behaviors' and labels leakers as 'enemies of the state'. Seems a bit overboard if there isn't a leak problem.

People rolled over before, now 10 years later it's outrage time,
Yes, but keep in mind that a key argument in the debate is that the laws are being reinterpreted to no longer mean what the authors intended. PATRIOT's author Jim Sensenbrenner included:

techdirt_sl said:
the Republican congressman from Wisconsin reiterated his concerns that the administration and the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court have gone far beyond what the PATRIOT Act intended. Specifically, he said that Section 215 of the act "was originally drafted to prevent data mining" on the scale that's occurred.
And the DoJ is keeping their new interpretations of these laws secret.
 

khalid

Unelected Mod
14,071
6,775
Even, and I have to say this again, some of the same people all outraged about the NSA's activities now, the same people who were totally ok with these laws passing and giving the government expanded powers. Or with the expansion of Homeland Security, or whatever it is. People rolled over before, now 10 years later it's outrage time, and if something else happens people will roll over again.
Yes, you keep saying it again and again, but I think you misrepresent it yet again. Just because someone supported the Patriot Act or thought we needed increased surveillance at the time, doesn't mean they supported at any point the scope and type of surveillance that is going on now. Now maybe they were stupid to believe that the government wouldn't take what was allowed and keep pushing it to allow more and more. Yet it is disingenuous to act like all those people were fine with this level of surveillance at the time and only changed their mind later.
 

Tanoomba

ジョーディーすれいやー
<Banned>
10,170
1,439
Yes, you keep saying it again and again, but I think you misrepresent it yet again. Just because someone supported the Patriot Act or thought we needed increased surveillance at the time, doesn't mean they supported at any point the scope and type of surveillance that is going on now. Now maybe they were stupid to believe that the government wouldn't take what was allowed and keep pushing it to allow more and more. Yet it is disingenuous to act like all those people were fine with this level of surveillance at the time and only changed their mind later.
People supported the patriot act?
 

khalid

Unelected Mod
14,071
6,775
People supported the patriot act?
Obviously or it wouldn't have passed so easily
tongue.png
.

I feel like Chaos keeps trying to make this into a partisan issue. "See, those silly republicans, they supported the Patriot Act and now complain about it!". I think this is an issue that both sides should be rightly upset about. Liberals obviously because for the most part we were against it at the time. Conservatives, because even those that supported it at the time probably didn't expect the courts to essentially just rubberstamp anything that comes across their desk.