The NSA watches you poop.

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hodj

hodj

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We've been prosecuting and locking up tens of millions of Americans for decades for using drugs and things like prostitution, with some of the top incarceration rates world-wide, and it takes a top secret NSA spying program for people to start thinking we're "leaning" towards an authoritarian police state.

Murrica sure is dumb sometimes. (all the time)
 
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azeth

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hodj_sl said:
We've been prosecuting and locking up tens of millions of Americans for decades for using drugs and things like prostitution, with some of the top incarceration rates world-wide, and it takes a top secret NSA spying program for people to start thinking we're "leaning" towards an authoritarian police state.

Murrica sure is dumb sometimes. (all the time)
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incepting laws prohibiting drugs and prostitution doesn't make our legal system hypocritical regarding this spying program, at all.

i don't necessarily agree with the drugs & prosititution laws, but it's not like the man in charge can just snap his fingers and undo what's been done.

is murica stupid? perhaps. i don't know if that's why though.
 
hodj

hodj

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I think you missed my point.

My point is that the progress towards an authoritarian state started decades ago, mostly under Johnson and Nixon.

Everything since then, all this stuff, is just the ball getting bigger as it picks up more shit while it rolls downhill.
 
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azeth

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i got ya. which actions toward society most stick out in your mind regarding making things more authoritative?
 
hodj

hodj

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Nixon and the drug war and all the bullshit surveillance laws and justifications that the Supremes have been allowing since then in order to fight the war on drugs.

All this NSA stuff is just expansions on government procedures that had their roots in the drug war.
 
Phazael

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Reagan greased the wheels a lot with setting the precedent of the executive bypassing congress when it wanted to do something illegal, as well. Cheney did more to centralize power in the executive branch than any single man in American history. Obama is mainly just formalizing a lot of it. Not that I am happy with that, either, but I am resigned to the fact that the digital age means this sort of thing was inevitable and that some very evil men used 9/11 to move up the time table on it a bit.
 
bytes

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Frustrating how history keeps repeating itself. And the first thing people do, is turning this into some kind of debate about left or right; as if it would make any difference on who's president in this matter.

And i like the guys saying "i have nothing to hide" or, "this thing can't do shit, they didn't catch the Boston bombers either". Because it will just stop here, right. At the moment, the NSA seems to be struggling with storing, moving and shifting through this massive amount of data, this database is the first of its kind afterall.

But in ten years, when everyone has either forgotten about this news, or accepted it, the damn thing will be vastly more powerful. Minority Report, here we come.
 
Malakriss

Malakriss

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And one day they will have copies of all of the music, movies, and porn traversing through the US and the MPAA/RIAA will have secret orders to get copies of all of your torrent downloads... Minority Report 2!

That's literally the argument people are making.
 
hodj

hodj

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I'd say the real issue is that they have all this information sitting there like a weapon, which they can utilize to destroy basically anyone.

Search histories, conversations, if you've ever had any skeletons ever in your closet, don't bother running for office, don't bother protesting a government action you disagree with, as soon as you become a recognizable face to the body politic, they could unload everything you've ever done online against you to destroy you, your credibility, everything.

This may not be a problem right this second, but think about in twenty years when people who have grown up entirely with the internet have every single major action they've ever taken documented in their lives. Now suddenly mistakes you made at 15 and 20 are coming back and possibly destroying your career, your life, whatever.

Its a bit of a slippery slope argument, which I'm not a fan of generally, but the potential for abuse is so great, that is what should be so concerning, not necessarily that at this very moment the program is being abused.
 
Phazael

Phazael

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Not only that, but they don't even have to do it directly. They can just "accidentally" slip your furry porn surfing history to 4chan the moment they want to torpedo you in the public eye.
 
hodj

hodj

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They can't accidentally slip it if I do it first!

PREPARE FOR THE TSAR BOMBA OF FURRY PORN DROPS!
 
Phazael

Phazael

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Edit- Just so we are clear, I really wish we had real privacy again, but the cherry has been popped on that one. I feel that the best use of public grassroots outrage is to make the best of a bad situation, which means tons of oversight and byzantine levels of administration to prevent it from being used casually without setting off a shit ton of red flags. Wishing we could go backwards is a waste of time and effort. Its better to focus on what CAN be done to make the situation livable.

The real irony to me is that this may effectively put an end to a lot of anonymous trolling on the internet, which is something a lot of people pine for. For myself, someone who acts the same online as in person and does not generally hide information about themselves, this whole thing is relatively not a big issue. But to people like StEvelys or Rav, who live double lives and/or prey on others' ignorance with their anonymity giving them a layer of protection, this is going to end their whole way of life.
 
Chukzombi

Chukzombi

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the "i have nothing to hide, so i dont mind my privacy being taken away" line is so flawed. say you are perfect and really have never done anything wrong. what about your friends and family? are they perfect too? if someone close to you told you on the phone or online some terrible and likely criminal secret about themselves, its on your head if the gubment body slams them. you could possibly be charged for withholding criminal info from the law. so basically when you say i have nothing to hide, you should also say, i will inform the police about everything you say to me.
 
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a_skeleton_03

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Maester Chuk_sl said:
the "i have nothing to hide, so i dont mind my privacy being taken away" line is so flawed. say you are perfect and really have never done anything wrong. what about your friends and family? are they perfect too? if someone close to you told you on the phone or online some terrible and likely criminal secret about themselves, its on your head if the gubment body slams them. you could possibly be charged for withholding criminal info from the law. so basically when you say i have nothing to hide, you should also say, i will inform the police about everything you say to me.
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Are you advocating harboring criminals here? It seems like you are. You have always been a moron though so not sure if I am reading it correctly.

Let me get it straight. You don't want the government data mining because some people might be guilty of bad things.....
 
Famm

Famm

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a_skeleton_03_sl said:
Are you advocating harboring criminals here? It seems like you are. You have always been a moron though so not sure if I am reading it correctly.

Let me get it straight. You don't want the government data mining because some people might be guilty of bad things.....
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No, no, because hisfriends and familymight be guilty. Keep in mind Astro is an Italian living in New Jersey...

But what I think he's trying to get across is that we are supposed to operate under presumption of innocence in this country, and these surveillance tactics would appear to indicate presumption of guilt. As I mentioned early on though, this is a seemingly timeless disconnect between our system of law and our agencies of law enforcement. In our adversarial style of justice, it really isn't too shocking that police and investigative departments are willing to "break a few eggs to make an omelet".

Anyway:

http://www.theonion.com/articles/are...2783/?ref=auto
 
Chukzombi

Chukzombi

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New laws make new criminals every day. Are you and your family aware of all the laws in your city, state and country? An innocent conversation can to certain ears be an admission to a crime.
 
Famm

Famm

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Beef Supreme_sl said:
Exactly.

The bold is the real takeaway here: With how big of an internet footprint the Tsarnaev brothers had and the amount of intel the Russians had on them, we can see how impotent PRISM really is (possibly). The more I think about this, the more it just seems as if it is the U.S. government's personal tool to snoop on the world.

Who watches the Watchmen?
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So its completely ineffectual yet insidiously nefarious all the same? What are they snooping for if not sedition and criminal intent? Looking at the pics you fap to? The Obamas are compiling a list of anyone who has ever called them the N word? What's the end game here? Because I personally feel like we are all already under a very Brave New Worldian self imposed slavery, the 1984 style oppression hardly seems necessary.

Maester Chuk_sl said:
New laws make new criminals every day. Are you and your family aware of all the laws in your city, state and country? An innocent conversation can to certain ears be an admission to a crime.
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NEBULOUS DIRE CONSEQUENCES AWAIT THOSE WHO MIGHT SOMETHING OR MIGHT NOT IT BE YOU??!!?!
 
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