The Official Conservative Political Thread

Great link Fanaskin. I really wonder what life experiences Dumar had that makes him put Marx on a pedestal and above all other knowledge.

Marx is certainly on a pedestal, a tall one, of that there is no question. But I didn't put him there: academia did. There's a reason for it too. However, he's not above criticism and did get things incorrect (like every other super scholar genius, including Einstein).

With that said, if you want to truly analyze capitalism, how it works, how our socioeconomic processes flow at the highest level, as well as taking a microscope to the extreme lowest, there's none better. His analyses range from economical, sociological, psychological, to philosophical. There were recent comments in the Wolf of Wall Street thread about how money is portrayed as an evil thing, and texts of Marx and Marxian scholars, for example, provides us both an understanding ofwhymoney might be portrayed this way by the media (controlled by the very people that have tons of it) and also a real good argument of why, actually, money could be an objectively bad thing. Without Marx, we wouldn't have this and many other scholarly toys. And then of course, the biggest and most pronounced difference: unlike anyone else, he tried to do something about what he discovered through those analyses.

I've read all of Chomsky, and he is probably the greatest mind of our generation. He says similar things about all Marxian scholars (like Fromm). But he's always all talk.

As far as me personally, I consider myself a fairly well read individual. Marx is an inspiration as others are. But, there's no other person whom I've read that not just puts to pen the naked truth of how our society truly works, but is so apparently pissed off about it. That's why I like his writing so much. He pretty much mocks the discipline and institution of economics in some passages, as an example.

Dumar_sl said:

Without Marx, we wouldn't have this and many other scholarly toys.

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So he was a unique snowflake and without him, these "truths" wouldn't have come to light? If so, that is probably an indication that those aren't scientific truths at all.

khalid_sl said:

So he was a unique snowflake and without him, these "truths" wouldn't have come to light? If so, that is probably an indication that those aren't scientific truths at all.

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I'm sure someone else would've. Engels could've replaced him as the most hated person in modern western history. You'd see banners of Engels's mug strewn up on Maoist and Soviet propaganda instead of Marx's. You'd see Obama being called a Engelarian or Engelsist (which sounds better?) instead of a Marxist, haha.

Like I said, really what separates him from every other genius, (post-)Enlightenment scholar, etc is that he was pissed off about what he saw and tried to find ways to fix it, getting kicked out of every country in Europe along the way (and not just writing about it like Chomsky).

So you can't really hardly imagine his level of indignation and ferocity if he were alive to see modern events in our culture, like Dimon's recent payraise despite his firm's illegal activities or the HSBC billion-dollar drug scandal. Chomsky writes about those events. Marx would be doing something about them and probably either getting exiled (again) or executed.

fanaskin_sl said:

unemployment is down while overall growth is weak and the difference can be accounted for in working age people dropping out of the labor pool.

stocks are high and housing prices have been reinflated somewhat but the underlying economy isn't doing well

the numbers for the economy AREN"T good when you have to reinvent the way you report them.

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Sounds like you just said " The economy is doing better" and added a bunch of qualifiers the regurgitated some line about "the underlying economy" which you probably don't understand. Again, according to the metrics they use to measure it, the economy is better. They didn't reinvent shit, brah. Same shit as 10 years ago.

The economy is doing *better.

























* For the 1%.

Has it ever been measured differently?

chaos_sl said:

Has it ever been measured differently?

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No because then they would have an argument based on fact, something Merlin and garglechimp have never let stand in their way before when making stupid ass arguments.

Dumar_sl said:

I'm sure someone else would've. Engels could've replaced him as the most hated person in modern western history. You'd see banners of Engels's mug strewn up on Maoist and Soviet propaganda instead of Marx's. You'd see Obama being called a Engelarian or Engelsist (which sounds better?) instead of a Marxist, haha.

Like I said, really what separates him from every other genius, (post-)Enlightenment scholar, etc is that he was pissed off about what he saw and tried to find ways to fix it, getting kicked out of every country in Europe along the way (and not just writing about it like Chomsky).

So you can't really hardly imagine his level of indignation and ferocity if he were alive to see modern events in our culture, like Dimon's recent payraise despite his firm's illegal activities or the HSBC billion-dollar drug scandal. Chomsky writes about those events. Marx would be doing something about them and probably either getting exiled (again) or executed.

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Marx was an ass, and Marxism is a religion not a philosophy. I had to read his bullshit in College and I got to experience it on a kibbutz - closest thing to true Marxism. Shit only works on a small scale when everyone is a true believer. Take your indignation elsewhere, millions of people have died because of Marx, the same can't be said of Dimon.

fanaskin_sl said:

unemployment is down while overall growth is weak and the difference can be accounted for in working age people dropping out of the labor pool.

stocks are high and housing prices have been reinflated somewhat but the underlying economy isn't doing well

the numbers for the economy AREN"T good when you have to reinvent the way you report them.

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The opposite is happening, economic figures are historically GDP growth and UE-3 unemployment - when both are improving and you have to find other excuses that's changing how you report them...

Vaclav_sl said:

The opposite is happening, economic figures are historically GDP growth and UE-3 unemployment - when both are improving and you have to find other excuses that's changing how you report them...

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Changing the narrative to fit their world view, facts will never deter idiots like Merlin and garglechimp, shares a lot of the same characteristics of religious people but it's just a coincidence that most republicans are deeply religious. Though I will admit it is funny to watch them butcher and mangle reality to support their beliefs, it's like getting to watch first hand a study on mental illness at work.

a_skeleton_03_sl said:

So we are basing how influential a person is just on how many people debate and read his stuff?

I guess Jesus wins over Marx then, right Dumar?

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Ya but Marx was an actual real person and it's easy to verify that he actually wrote all that shit. Jesus...not so much.

a_skeleton_03_sl said:

So we are basing how influential a person is just on how many people debate and read his stuff?

I guess Jesus wins over Marx then, right Dumar?

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They do try to turn him into Jesus. Intentionally I think while vehemently denying what they're doing. It may possibly be unintentional. The time spent in contemplation of Marx may preclude them from immersing themselves in the culture of religion.They might not actually realize what they're doing.I don't know that that's any worse, but I do know it's not any better.

Much of Marx's analysis is valid. His solutions less so. I would respect it more if it were framed as a religious argument, and not this astrology-esque pseudoscience they try to push.

Karl Marx, the secular Jesus.

Lyrical_sl said:

Marxism is as big a joke as Communism, which is why both of those systems have disappeared. I can't believe, that in 2014, people still talk about those systems. If they worked, countries would be using them, instead of eschewing them enmasse.

Please spare us the "no one has done it right yet" line of thought.

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You do realize thatSocial Democracy, aka theNordic Model, has been wildly successful. While not fully Marxism (Marxists and Social Democrats were actually political rivals in 19th century Germany), social democracy was HEAVILY influenced by his philosophy and analysis of capitalism.

Dumar_sl said:

There's plenty such things.

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That shit scares me so much, when does the electorate will be educated enough to understand something need to be done before there is no coming back, how much wealth the elite have to accumulate on the back of this planet before the majority realise what's going on ? The level of education/understanding necessary to realise something's wrong with the current system is frightening... Given how much time we usually take to react to issues we're are gonna be fucked way long after it's too late.

Ho yeah and if it's not the capitalist way, it's obviously only the fucking commie marxist way. There is, of course, no other choice...