The Official Conservative Political Thread

  • Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!



    Go here and give us your nominations!
    Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!

ZyyzYzzy

RIP USA
<Banned>
25,295
48,789
I'm not getting into another argument about what's 'real' science and what isn't, and that's where this always devolves. If you think economics, sociology and the rest of the social sciences aren't science, that's your opinion, one that isn't shared by academia.
I never said they aren't real science, but you can have opinions on those fields as an expert and publish papers.

You can have an hypothesis in other sciences such as genomics, but you need experimental data from your experiments to publish a paper.

edit - also, as a scholar you can critique any one of Marx's or another economists' papers (how many modern economists do you disagree with today?) , hard to go back and try and refute Newton's calculus.
 

Dumar_sl

shitlord
3,712
4
I never said they aren't real science, but you can have opinions on those fields as an expert and publish papers.

You can have an hypothesis in other sciences such as genomics, but you need experimental data from your experiments to publish a paper.
This is not genomics. There is more involved than just the empirical positivism of the natural sciences.
 

Asshat wormie

2023 Asshat Award Winner
<Gold Donor>
16,820
30,968
Yes indeed they are. Upward mobility has only been decreasing since democrats begin the "war on poverty" back in the 60s. That coupled with the rise of the ideologically liberal NEA has doomed the poor. Conservatives didn't come up with the idea of the projects and sticking all the poor together. That was you guys. We tried to encourage school choice and vouchers to allow poor kids to go to better schools, but that is a type of choice that doesn't meet with Democrat approval.
Yeah the poor had it so much better before the 60s.
 

TrollfaceDeux

Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
<Bronze Donator>
19,577
3,743
Yeah the poor had it so much better before the 60s.
low crime rate, lower single motherhood, low pretty much every fucking thing until "Black Revolution." And did I mention prestigious black college?

Thanks bro, emancipation from racism comes with price.
 

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
5,538
791
Lyrical, do you understand that we all agree that pure Statism and pure Capitalism are both terrible extremes, and we're all just quibbling over where the most optimal point on that sliding scale is?
I'll partially agree, but the scale needs to be closer to free markets. If you look really closely at the changes, they were dramatic, those countries shifted from a post Apocalyptic environment to heavy weight contenders within a few years.

However, what you see in China is some scary shit, some refer it as "naked capitalism." You can't let factories spew toxic chemicals into people's drinking water and ignore it, you can't make products that are dangerous to the consumer and know it. China has "taken the ball and run with it" as far ignoring consumer protections. It's like they are like we were at the start of the industrial revolution, where caveat emptor ruled the day. Also, you have to let people earn their way up the ladder. I know it's weird, but on my Dad's side, he has six siblings, and five of them have graduate degrees and PHd's. All of us are Black. That's a bit odd, but it was stressed on his side that you are going to hustle in life. They have had kids and Grand kids, and we've started earning our college diplomas, graduate degrees and PHd's. My sister just got hers in Psychology, and now she's billing clients at $100 an hour. We've all moved up, but that's because there was this internal drive as a family, that getting educated was the end all be all. And the neighborhood they grew up is full of crack houses, we come from dirt. To this day even though I've made 200-300k each year for the last five years, I still get lectures about how I need a PHd. Thanksgiving dinners get a little tense, as they ride me about how I'm not doing enough with my life, and lecture me about how getting another degree would give me power over my life and surroundings. Bullshit, I lived in a neighborhood full of doctors and make more than a lot of them.

Wanting to move up, either comes internally, by family or is helped by government. We all managed to get degrees and more pay (but also more school debt). Capitalism won't work in the long term if large segments feel as though they can't do better, or that it might be easier to move ahead if they take up arms. Plenty of people I grew up with seemed to think it would be easier to sell drugs or use a gun to get ahead.

Consolidation of wealth is a concern to me. I'll always be fine, as I cater to wealthy individuals. We don't mow lawns, we do high end projects. I'll always find something to sell, that's my gift. I'll be selling bullets in the Zombie Apocalypse. But I do believe that going Dumar's route would move the U.S. backwards. China and India are going to be more important than the U.S. eventually. They embrace the free market, while we continue to move more towards Socialism.

Here is one my professors, who is highly revered and could teach anywhere in the world says it. "They are playing by our rules, and we've torn up the book."

 

Agraza

Registered Hutt
6,890
521
TJ stop tainting my side of this argument by supporting it.
I fucking hate when people do that.
smile.png
 

ZyyzYzzy

RIP USA
<Banned>
25,295
48,789
This is not genomics. There is more involved than just the empirical positivism of the natural sciences.
Yes I know. All I am saying that the h index is a flawed metric because of this. Saying Marx is the most influential scientist ever is absurd and you seem to have just admitted to why.
 

Dumar_sl

shitlord
3,712
4
The aging body of capitalism paves the way for socialism. You can't have real socialism without going through capitalism first. It's not like you wake up one day and want to implement an economic system. We couldn't have capitalism without feudalism, just as we can't have socialism without capitalism, and communism without socialism before it.

It's a process, the progress of human society. You can't skip ahead (or go backwards, back into more lassez-faire capitalism).
 

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
5,538
791
I'm not getting into another argument about what's 'real' science and what isn't, and that's where this always devolves. If you think economics, sociology and the rest of the social sciences aren't science, that's your opinion, one that isn't shared by academia.
Economics is in the school of liberal arts for a reason. In my senior year, I switch from Economics to Accounting/Finance, when I started to realize how much a lot of it was bullshit. I can talk Economics with any of you, but realize when I switched to Finance, I started sitting there laughing at the retards over in Economics. As the running joke goes, "Economists predicted 11 of the last 9 recessions."
 

Asshat wormie

2023 Asshat Award Winner
<Gold Donor>
16,820
30,968
I'll partially agree, but the scale needs to be closer to free markets. If you look really closely at the changes, they were dramatic, those countries shifted from a post Apocalyptic environment to heavy weight contenders within a few years.

However, what you see in China is some scary shit, some refer it as "naked capitalism." You can't let factories spew toxic chemicals into people's drinking water and ignore it, you can't make products that are dangerous to the consumer and know it. China has "taken the ball and run with it" as far ignoring consumer protections. It's like they are like we were at the start of the industrial revolution, where caveat emptor ruled the day. Also, you have to let people earn their way up the ladder. I know it's weird, but on my Dad's side, he has six siblings, and five of them have graduate degrees and PHd's. All of us are Black. That's a bit odd, but it was stressed on his side that you are going to hustle in life. They have had kids and Grand kids, and we've started earning our college diplomas, graduate degrees and PHd's. My sister just got hers in Psychology, and now she's billing clients at $100 an hour. We've all moved up, but that's because there was this internal drive as a family, that getting educated was the end all be all. And the neighborhood they grew up is full of crack houses, we come from dirt. To this day even though I've made 200-300k each year for the last five years, I still get lectures about how I need a PHd. Thanksgiving dinners get a little tense, as they ride me about how I'm not doing enough with my life, and lecture me about how getting another degree would give me power over my life and surroundings. Bullshit, I lived in a neighborhood full of doctors and make more than a lot of them.

Wanting to move up, either comes internally, by family or is helped by government. We all managed to get degrees and more pay (but also more school debt). Capitalism won't work in the long term if large segments feel as though they can't do better, or that it might be easier to move ahead if they take up arms. Plenty of people I grew up with seemed to think it would be easier to sell drugs or use a gun to get ahead.

Consolidation of wealth is a concern to me. I'll always be fine, as I cater to wealthy individuals. We don't mow lawns, we do high end projects. I'll always find something to sell, that's my gift. I'll be selling bullets in the Zombie Apocalypse. But I do believe that going Dumar's route would move the U.S. backwards. China and India are going to be more important than the U.S. eventually. They embrace the free market, while we continue to move more towards Socialism.

Here is one my professors, who is highly revered and could teach anywhere in the world says it. "They are playing by our rules, and we've torn up the book."

You do realize that everything you just described is encouraged by the government in the same nordic countries you took a shit on a few post back? You do realize that part of the ability of your family to get degrees relies on social programs, same programs you derided just a few posts back? Or maybe you dont realize it and this is why your family thinks you need to get a bit more education.
 

Dumar_sl

shitlord
3,712
4
And what's the first rule of finance? Mathematics + $$$ = finance.

If economics isn't science, then finance isn't either. It's the study of a thing made up by humans, money, that doesn't exist in nature or reality outside those humans. So you're studying and modeling the mathematical rules and processes based on time/risk of something that was made up to begin with: valuation and management of valuation due to ... money.
 

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
5,538
791
You do realize that everything you just described is encouraged by the government in the same nordic countries you took a shit on a few post back? You do realize that part of the ability of your family to get degrees relies on social programs, same programs you derided just a few posts back? Or maybe you dont realize it and this is why your family thinks you need to get a bit more education.
I am not a big fan of touching the free market and making changes. If you are looking for me to talk about the Nordic model and speak well of it, I won't. I'm not opposed to a "social program" if people are paying you back. None of us have defaulted on our student loans, and we pay interest. Furthermore, people like my Dad found in Vietnam, and earned what they got by risking their lives.

There's huge difference between that and pure Marxism. I'm not going to allow you to reduce my argument because people are able to finance their educations, or go fight for their country and get an education for that, and I don't have a problem with that.
 

Sebudai

Ssraeszha Raider
12,022
22,504
The Nordic countries aren't purely Marxist. That's what you're not getting. You think you're arguing with all of us, but you're not, because you just don't understand what actually goes on in these Nordic countries.