The Trayvon Trial

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Chukzombi

Chukzombi

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There really is no gray area about this fight and unfortunate result. There is sufficient physical and eyewitness evidence to show thar zimmerman's story is the complete truth. The only gray area that is mostly conjecture is what happened leading up to it. IMO that part doesnt matter because whoever acted right or wrong. The fact zimmerman suffered a beating before he used deadly force to fend off his attacker is all thats important.
 
khalid

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Arbitrary_sl said:
Second degree murder to me seems absolutely ridiculous.
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Yeah and it sucks that prosecutors can overcharge like that (either hoping for a plea to a lesser charge or just wanting to get a bloodthirsty jury) and not get penalized because of the lesser included charges.
 
Vaclav

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Maester Chuk_sl said:
There really is no gray area about this fight and unfortunate result. There is sufficient physical and eyewitness evidence to show thar zimmerman's story is the complete truth. The only gray area that is mostly conjecture is what happened leading up to it. IMO that part doesnt matter because whoever acted right or wrong. The fact zimmerman suffered a beating before he used deadly force to fend off his attacker is all thats important.
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"Complete truth"? Horseshit - you've got different people saying the conversation was different leading up to the altercation. You've got eyewitnesses saying contrasting things. You've got injuries that range from "minor" to "serious" depending on the report.

You've got very selective vision if you think there's "complete truth" here. There's "reasonable doubt" - that's why he's going to get off - not because it's absolutely clear.

And highest charge should've been something in the manslaughter line.
 
Araysar

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Maester Chuk_sl said:
There really is no gray area about this fight and unfortunate result. There is sufficient physical and eyewitness evidence to show thar zimmerman's story is the complete truth. The only gray area that is mostly conjecture is what happened leading up to it. IMO that part doesnt matter because whoever acted right or wrong. The fact zimmerman suffered a beating before he used deadly force to fend off his attacker is all thats important.
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I completely agree, but there is also the aspect of Zimmerman instigating this entire confrontation and ultimately killing someone.

You can't just let someone walk away from that. But its Florida so they probably will because that state is retarded.
 
khalid

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Maybe Cad knows this, dunno.

Have there been studies to see the effect of overcharging people on conviction rates? Does it tend to prejudice the jury towards being harsher or does the reasonable doubt of the actual charge lead to a lesser chance of a lesser included charge?

ie: If you know you just have evidence of manslaughter and its rocksolid but pretty much no evidence of 2nd degree murder, is there any negative whatsoever to just go for 2nd degree murder?
 
Vaclav

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Depends how he instigated - from the absolutes we know there's nothing he's done that would've absolutely put him at fault.
 
Vaclav

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khalid: I've heard people quote studies (although no idea which ones they were using) that overcharging does tend to get ALL charges dropped - that a large portion end up just considering the top charge and end up ignoring all lesser. But again I don't know which ones they were quoting or their validity.
 
Noble Savage

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I saw a 60 minutes (or one of those similar programs) that did a program about how prosecutors go about their jobs these days by over charging and adding on dozens of extra charges for every little thing just in hopes to throw them away or reduce down the main charge in a plea deal. They went on to show how badly this fucks people up that either can't afford a good lawyer or any lawyer at all. Its was basically a lazy tactic to get their conviction rate up so it looked like they were doing well in their jobs. Absolutely no repercussions were had by any of these lawyers when charges either get dropped or beaten.
 
Vandyn

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I think too many people get hung up on the fact that he was a) 17 and b) unarmed, as if he still didn't have the capability to seriously hurt or kill someone. If he was 50 pounds heavier and maybe 5 years older, you would of never heard of this case.
 
khalid

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Vandyn_sl said:
you would of never heard of this case.
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That and if the media hadn't tried to play up the racial aspect of it. From the editing of the 911 tape, repeatedly mentioning that Zimmerman was white, constantly showing images of a younger trayvon, to ABC saying initially that Zimmerman had no wounds on his head. Just horrible horrible coverage.
 
Noble Savage

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The media was a disgrace with the way they spun this case. They are solely responsible for stoking the racial tensions and have created a very dangerous situation. If GZ is acquitted there probably will be riots and people will be hurt. All just so the "news" agencies can advance their agenda.
 
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gunther_sl

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Gavinrad_sl said:
Spoken like someone who has never been in a fight in his life. If someone is still on top of you after having just beaten the crap out of you, they're still a threat regardless of whether or not they're currently distracted by someone shouting about having called the cops. You don't stop and think 'oh he probably wont continue beating my ass now', in fact you don't have time to stop and think anything. As soon as you regain your senses from having had your head pounded into the pavement, you immediately take whatever actions you have to in order to protect yourself.
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You sound like you've had your head pounded into the pavement quite a bit
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BrutulTM

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Turns out there's about 10 people on this message board that should have been called in as expert witnesses on this trial.
 
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Duppin_sl

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Araysar_sl said:
I completely agree, but there is also the aspect of Zimmerman instigating this entire confrontation and ultimately killing someone.
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No way. Zimmerman just happened to be walking behind Martin, probably while whistling a jaunty tune. I think he was just going to ask Martin if he wanted to go get a chocolate malted.
 
Famm

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noble savage_sl said:
Typical liberal faggotry........guns are bad and all white people are racist.
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Their agenda is sponsorship, driven by viewership, driven by sensationalist emotion based stories. AKA they are another form of entertainment, but they have real world ramifications.

Otherwise, yes the media fanned the flames on this shit and it could come back to ignite pretty bad.
 
khalid

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You seem remarkably ignorant about this case Duppin. From your proof of Zimmerman's racism being 40+ 911 calls about people of a different color in his neighborhood in one year turning out to be complete fabrication, to your insistence that somehow following someone for a bit and then turning around is enough provocation that you should be assaulted. You are embarrassing yourself.
 
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Duppin_sl

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No way man, I'm on your side now! Zimmerman is clearly an innocent man who just wanted to get close to Martin so he could compliment him on his choice of Skittles flavors, and he's being demonized by the horrible librul media.

He should be acquitted and given a medal.

Also, a seance should be held so that Martin can apologize to him for causing all this trouble.
 
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