Transgender Facts vs. Fictions

Lendarios · Oct 9, 2019

Vanessa said:
That is why this thread is this thread. Less troll work, more actual civil adult discussion on where we disagree because, call me crazy, but I feel like when people have dialogues and actually talk and listen to each other rationally instead of slinging poo at each other, understandings can be met.

Understanding with whom you?

Ok let me ask you. What mainstream position of the board do you disagree with? Because you keep jumping back and forth trying to be an attorney by proxy of a mainstream position you don't agree to begin with.

Vanessa · Oct 9, 2019

Lendarios said:
Ok let me ask you. What mainstream position of the board do you disagree with?

How to appropriately give care to children who are suffering with Gender Issues. Anyone who's familiar with my thread knows this is the real center of contention with this.

The mainstread board position is: Adults are adults and can freely choose to be what they want to be. On that stance, yes, I think some of the more radical members and I would clash but in GENERAL there would be very little strife and disagreement when discussing adult transgender care.

Kids are a sensitive topic, y'know? See the issue is, I want to protect and care for kids JUST as much as you guys want to protect and care for kids. Let's be clear and upfront about that. Where it becomes a heated issue of debate is how to do that. How to ensure kids... ALL kids... are protected and cared for. That includes kids with mental issues. That includes kids with gender dysphoria. Which is why I think taking them to GOOD doctors like Zucker that I mentioned in the FIRST post is crucial.

But can we agree that which doctors are good, and in fact, if doctors AT ALL are good for kids who seem to be having some issues, isn't as black and white and cut and dry as it might seem?

Let's talk about THAT because I think that's where many feel the crux of misunderstanding lay... on both sides of the debate.

maskedmelon · Oct 9, 2019

Vanessa said:
Rather, let me take the Steven Crowder approach and let's agree to definitions first, instead of saying distinction.

What is the DEFINITION we can agree on of what Sex is and what Gender is?

How about rather than attempting to agree on middle ground definitions of existing contested terms, we just use unambiguous language:

biological sex
gender expression

Lendarios · Oct 9, 2019

Vanessa said:
Let's talk about THAT because I think that's where many feel the crux of misunderstanding lay... on both sides of the debate.

Didn't you already agreed on the AMA thread that puberty blockers are bad?

I guess I would agree with this thread more if it was titled "Good responsible Doctors Vs Tranny mentality."

syzy where r u??

fanaskin · Oct 9, 2019

Vanessa said:
If it's that easy, why have a dichotomy of terms here:

Sex

Gender

You are calling an apple red red. in terms of both color and hue.

What is the distinction between Sex and Gender in your opinion Zyyz?

If you just want to wear makeup and shake your ass why does that require you to pretend your something your not and invent a made up subjective category with no clear definition? why aren't there just effeminate males, why go through the delusion psychosis part of it?

my big problem with all this is it's just reinventing something we already had in my mind and fetishing it and making sub catagories and exploring every shade of gender expression ect is further fetishising minute differences mostly in subjective ways.

TJT · Oct 9, 2019

Vanessa said:
How to appropriately give care to children who are suffering with Gender Issues. Anyone who's familiar with my thread knows this is the real center of contention with this.

The mainstread board position is: Adults are adults and can freely choose to be what they want to be. On that stance, yes, I think some of the more radical members and I would clash but in GENERAL there would be very little strife and disagreement when discussing adult transgender care.

Kids are a sensitive topic, y'know? See the issue is, I want to protect and care for kids JUST as much as you guys want to protect and care for kids. Let's be clear and upfront about that. Where it becomes a heated issue of debate is how to do that. How to ensure kids... ALL kids... are protected and cared for. That includes kids with mental issues. That includes kids with gender dysphoria. Which is why I think taking them to GOOD doctors like Zucker that I mentioned in the FIRST post is crucial.

But can we agree that which doctors are good, and in fact, if doctors AT ALL are good for kids who seem to be having some issues, isn't as black and white and cut and dry as it might seem?

Let's talk about THAT because I think that's where many feel the crux of misunderstanding lay... on both sides of the debate.

Well per the original article here the Woke Gender Theory Cultists actively got a good doctor with decades of experience in this particular issue fired from his job/career. Essentially the cultists compared his very reasonable practice of transgendering should be the absolute last option as something akin to gay conversion therapy in backwater Alabama.

Got a bunch of bullshit people said he did and posted it online for the world to see with no other evidence and canned him on the spot.

This tells us that Woke, "doctors" are what the field wants so kids should be even more wary of a topic than they were before.

Bandwagon · Oct 9, 2019

Vanessa said:
People in the troll tranny thread RIGHT NOW are saying "why didn't you tell this person you were trans before they moved in with you?" It's an interesting conundrum. Don't talk about it over and over... we don't want to hear it repeatedly. Trust me, I got it, totally. But then, you form bonds and relationships with people and people will expect you to tell someone ASAP.

I'm barely paying attention because it's busy at work and this is a quick rant, but these are completely separate issues you're talking about.

You're supposed to tell someone if you're starting to date...and pretty damn quick. That's important, just like whether or not you have STDs, if you're in the military and deploy often, if you're allergic to bodyhair, wtf ever. That's when you're supposed to talk about it. You're not supposed to talk about it in your Monday morning meeting at work, in the grocery store checkout line, in a super bowl commercial for fucking vodka, etc.

You're a name and an avatar to us, not a potential mate. Other than topical conversation (like this thread), you being trans matters fuckall elsewhere on the forum and that includes when people are discussing night elf physique, hair care products or tomato basil bisque.

iannis · Oct 9, 2019

I find the Gender versus Sex argument to be a distinction without a difference.

I don't think it's necessary. XY = Male, XX = Female, sexual preferences beyond heterosexual and homosexual are irregular, individual, and not analytically important in a group context. This is a very simple 4 box square that we're drawing and there are only 2 types of combinations, 3 specific combinations. The base pair is why you have a pair and only need a pair of descriptors.

If you want to get more abstract than that, it's fine. It really is. It's not scientific though. At that point you're having a cultural discussion. Nothing wrong with that, but trying to misrepresent what is being discussed as something else is the foundation of a lie. If a person is seeking truth it does not seem to me like a lie is the best way to find it.

The Gender versus Sex argument is only relevant to the individual, and even then I don't think it's necessary. The individual does not require a classification of their sexuality being as that it is the only one that they have.

There are as many variants of Heterosexuality as there are variants of homosexuality. Classification will show one primary fact -- individuals vary. The trouble is that in doing so it will constrict and confuse. Which is not the goal, or at least should not be. The goal should be to explain and understand.

I used to put a bit more stock in Gender v Sex. I did. My opinion has changed in the past ten or fifteen years. I thought that it could go somewhere that it really hasn't gone.

fanaskin · Oct 9, 2019

saying you want to be a women is like saying "I want to cook and clean" if genders are mere role based.

Lendarios · Oct 9, 2019

I hope Garland splits the difference and gives protections to gays, but not transgendered.

Vanessa · Oct 9, 2019

BoozeCube said:
FTFY

Heh, FTFY, yup yup.

So when I said to you all that no matter where I go, the trolls will follow, and they follow... it is MY fault?

I'm not the victim. I'm not Tanoomba. I'm Vanessa.

Go ahead and ban me; I'll be fine, I promise! I said no alt accounts and I will honor that.

I loved this forum, and I take responsibility for what I have done to get me to this moment. I'm not even going to mention his name, but he won, no poll needed. The community has spoken. He played an impressive troll game, and deserves credit

Later gators; I know I won't be missed, but it's all good. ...and NO you retards, I'm not going to an hero if that's what you're worried about. I'm not Jerle either. Like I said, I'm Vanessa. Always have been!!!

Ban away.

Cad · Oct 9, 2019

Vanessa said:
If it's that easy, why have a dichotomy of terms here:

Sex

Gender

You are calling an apple red red. in terms of both color and hue.

What is the distinction between Sex and Gender in your opinion Zyyz?

In all seriousness, I don't see any difference in those terms. They are effectively synonyms. Your gender is your sex.

I think there is a lot of grey area; for example there can be a masculine woman (butch) or an effeminate male... but they are still men/women male/female. They just have additional behavior characteristics. These do not override the terms sex or gender.

Redefining words is how they control your thought.

chthonic-anemos · Oct 9, 2019

(I didn't read this thread.)

Transgender activism is a big pharma and biomedical research lobby. An indoctrinated, castrated, indebted and industry dependent inquisition for wealthy trans-humanists(not gender or sex; life extension). Sword and shield against moral, academic or legal criticism. Flunkies and victims that literally kill themselves after you've used them up, a perfect mafia. Hillary emoji + wet emoji

Don't be a bigot. Use tax dollars and government authority to send them more children.

Who Are the Rich, White Men Institutionalizing Transgender Ideology?

Exceedingly rich, white men who invest in biomedical companies are funding myriad transgender organizations whose agenda will make them gobs of money.

thefederalist.com

iannis · Oct 9, 2019

Who the hell is talking about banning you?

Calm your tits. Foler lost, and he should have lost. He picked a stupid fight because he was bored.

Nobody's getting banned. Not you and not foler. Unless foler decides to double down on stupid, then someone probably will ban him for being too much of a jackass.

Koushirou · Oct 9, 2019

Vanessa said:
Heh, FTFY, yup yup.

So when I said to you all that no matter where I go, the trolls will follow, and they follow... it is MY fault?

I'm not the victim. I'm not Tanoomba. I'm Vanessa.

Go ahead and ban me; I'll be fine, I promise! I said no alt accounts and I will honor that.

I loved this forum, and I take responsibility for what I have done to get me to this moment. I'm not even going to mention his name, but he won, no poll needed. The community has spoken. He played an impressive troll game, and deserves credit

Later gators; I know I won't be missed, but it's all good. ...and NO you retards, I'm not going to an hero if that's what you're worried about. I'm not Jerle either. Like I said, I'm Vanessa. Always have been!!!

Ban away.

This was a thread that didn’t need to be made. And I have no idea what you’re going on about in this post. We’re not out to get you or some shit. You also Lee on doing this shit where you claim you’re peacing out totally for real this time, and it just comes off as yet another cry for attention like 90% of the shit you post on the forums/your constant avatar changes with your picture/etc. I’d wager the vast majority of people don’t want you to leave or get banned or whatever, but maybe just want you to try changing it up a bit? Is being a tranny literally all there is to you? If so, that’s pretty sad. If not, why not post with that side of yourself in mind? Idk, it’s just annoying to see this same shit play out over and over.

j00t · Oct 9, 2019

i mean... if you don't want vanessa to talk about being a woman... stop reading/posting in vanessa's threads? it's sort of like all those people who watch fox or cnn or whatever just to say how terrible it is. i mean, if that's your kink, then more power to you but don't complain about the fire while you throw gasoline on it.

anyway... my entire problem with the TG and to a lesser degree the lgbtq community as a whole is two-fold. one, language. people say things like "the gender you were assigned at birth." no one ASSIGNED your birth. don't put that in the same category as going to a guidance counselor and having them saying "you should be a programmer/actor/teacher/whatever." the doctor that "assigned" your gender didn't do some complex algorithm or scantron test and come up with you being male. they looked at whether or not you had a dick and whether or not you had XY chromosomes.

secondly, no one... NO ONE feels comfortable in their own skin. that's part of being human. no one is BORN racist... they learn that from the people around them. just like no one is born thinking "i'm the wrong gender" unless people put that in their minds. people are uncomfortable with who they are as a biological imperative to seek improvement. so you say, "i AM seeking improvement by becoming the gender i'm supposed to be!" well, who told you that would make anything better? because it doesn't. arguably it makes things worse because you have to deal with now being labeled as "Transgender" as opposed to "Steve."

if you are religious, it breaks down because God (or whatever greater power you believe in) created you as you are on purpose. so you aren't born wrong. if you aren't religious, it falls apart because when nature creates an "accident" like an albino tiger or something, they RARELY live to adulthood because nature fixes it's mistakes by killing them. they've lost their ability to survive and must be removed from the genepool. someone becoming transgender is so abhorrent because without society shouldering the burden, they can't survive either. and this is where people get pissed. society at large has to make arduous changes just to allow an EXTREME minority to make anti-social changes.

so, now that that's all been said... don't think me dis-compassionate. i don't like transgender-ism because it doesn't fix the problem. facts clearly state that the suicide rate hasn't gone down AT ALL, so changing genders doesn't make any difference. America has a mental health issue in that we are johnny-on-the-spot with saying someone has a mental health diagnosis but then pretty much drops the ball with doing anything tangible about it. this is coming from a mental health professional. the system is not set up to fix people. it's set up to medicate them. so, here have a reassignment surgery and also here's some hormones that you need to take regularly for years. also, you'll need to take hormone blockers for a while. and there's some side effects so you should probably take some etc, etc, etc

wormie · Oct 9, 2019

j00t said:
no one is BORN racist... they learn that from the people around them.

This has been shown time and time again to be incorrect. We are not born a blank slate.

And to stay on topic, transgenderism is a mental disease that has been elevated to be something socially celebrated. And since most of the trannys are dudes, this is just more proof that men can and will outcompete women in every way possible if given the chance.

Izo · Oct 9, 2019

wormie said:
And to stay on topic, transgenderism is a mental disease that has been elevated to be something socially celebrated. And since most of the trannys are dudes, this is just more proof that men can and will outcompete women in every way possible if given the chance.

While funny, it's the opposite in academics where I live. Females now dominate university uptakes both total and in the studies where outstanding grades are the key to admission, and have for several years. School up to univesity masters are free. One can only wonder why men don't excel any longer, leveled playing field, economically anyway.

wormie · Oct 9, 2019

Izo said:
While funny, it's the opposite in academics where I live. Females now dominate university uptakes both total and in the studies where outstanding grades are the key to admission, and have for several years. School up to univesity masters are free. One can only wonder why men don't excel any longer, leveled playing field, economically anyway.

In what fields is this true? Also wait until the male trannys will claim to be women and start applying for all the diversity fellowships and grants that women are benefiting from right now.

j00t · Oct 9, 2019

wormie said:
This has been shown time and time again to be incorrect. We are not born a blank slate.

has it? i mean legitimately? source? i'd love to actually read how they proved that. not arguing, i'm actually really curious

Transgender Facts vs. Fictions

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