Transgender Facts vs. Fictions

Lanx · Oct 10, 2019

chaos said:
So, this is what troubles me about the whole discussion. I get that transition is the "treatment" for gender dysphoria, and I have no reason to believe that isn't a real and valid thing. But like, it's a disorder, and for treatment, the best we can comes up with is indulging the disorder?

they're not treating shit, they're just placating to crazies.

it's not different from anorexia, with anorexia, this is the what the girl sees

image-1-for-coleen-16th-june-2011-gallery-440492834.jpg

(this is the sfw image, i could don't want to scare ppl with skelator)

and you know what, it's never enough, she'll vomit herself to skin n bones and still do it.

How do you fix it? you don't, they learn to live with their (in their mind) fat selves. they had a medical intervention where they almost died cuz they were basically the "living auschwitz", and just eat like not hungry normal ppl and not look in the mirror.

oh body dismorphia goes the other way as well, there's an entire GNC industry dedicated to it

at what point do you take away their barbell? it's never enough, they NEED that 10pack.

the tranny thing is just body dismorphia, we're just paying attention to it cuz ppl want to cut off their dick if they really mean it. (most are too pussy to)

and that brings us to

Body integrity identity disorder (BIID) where ppl wanna cut off a perfectly fine body part like their arm or leg cuz they "believe" it's like a fucking alien parasite or something.

do doctors do this for them? well eventually, why? cuz they're so crazy they self amputate, bleed all over the house, get brought in the hospital and then get real surgery.

and then?

and then nothing, then they develop "phantom limb" where they still believe the amputated limb is there and they can "feel it"

Hey, i've been reading up on how to install a new car headunit, and read horror stories of how a bad wire can lead to you making a left turn signal in order to increase the volume... wiring is fucked up, but the car still drives, same thing with all these freaks.

Punko · Oct 10, 2019

Lanx said:
they're not treating shit, they're just placating to crazies.

it's not different from anorexia, with anorexia, this is the what the girl sees

(this is the sfw image, i could don't want to scare ppl with skelator)

and you know what, it's never enough, she'll vomit herself to skin n bones and still do it.

How do you fix it? you don't, they learn to live with their (in their mind) fat selves. they had a medical intervention where they almost died cuz they were basically the "living auschwitz", and just eat like not hungry normal ppl and not look in the mirror.

oh body dismorphia goes the other way as well, there's an entire GNC industry dedicated to it

at what point do you take away their barbell? it's never enough, they NEED that 10pack.

the tranny thing is just body dismorphia, we're just paying attention to it cuz ppl want to cut off their dick if they really mean it. (most are too pussy to)

and that brings us to

Body integrity identity disorder (BIID) where ppl wanna cut off a perfectly fine body part like their arm or leg cuz they "believe" it's like a fucking alien parasite or something.

do doctors do this for them? well eventually, why? cuz they're so crazy they self amputate, bleed all over the house, get brought in the hospital and then get real surgery.

and then?

and then nothing, then they develop "phantom limb" where they still believe the amputated limb is there and they can "feel it"

Hey, i've been reading up on how to install a new car headunit, and read horror stories of how a bad wire can lead to you making a left turn signal in order to increase the volume... wiring is fucked up, but the car still drives, same thing with all these freaks.

Given the suicide rates in the transgender group, this should be the first group to have their "rights" revoked.

Probably the most self-destructive path to allow a person to take.

Governements across the world are campaigning to stop people from smoking, but something far more lethal is being promoted by having "role-models" described as "brave", and the choice, based on mental illness as "right".

Sickening.

chaos · Oct 10, 2019

Punko said:
Is this sarcasm or?

I can't even tell.

No. If I say "x amount of terrorist attacks are committed by muslims" yeah, that's true. But it isnt true across the larger population, it's only true for a subset of that population. If you try to run enforcement on 1.5 billion people because of a subset of however many thousand violent extremists, you're gonna have a bad day, both with resources and the impact. And, again, that's not even what profiling is. An actual, usable profile for "people committing terrorist acts" would contain ethnicity, religion, etc as data point to narrow the scope down so actions the profiling is supporting can actually be effective. It's a problem in our society because misapplication of it has poisoned even the word profiling, to the point where it used to be a slang term for racism.

Punko · Oct 10, 2019

chaos said:
No. If I say "x amount of terrorist attacks are committed by muslims" yeah, that's true. But it isnt true across the larger population, it's only true for a subset of that population. If you try to run enforcement on 1.5 billion people because of a subset of however many thousand violent extremists, you're gonna have a bad day, both with resources and the impact. And, again, that's not even what profiling is. An actual, usable profile for "people committing terrorist acts" would contain ethnicity, religion, etc as data point to narrow the scope down so actions the profiling is supporting can actually be effective. It's a problem in our society because misapplication of it has poisoned even the word profiling, to the point where it used to be a slang term for racism.

That isn't how statistics should be used.

You make statistics for a region, and apply the results from the statistics from that region, to that region.

If 80% of the crimes in Detroit are commited by blue people, it is perfectly rational to screen blue people first in Detroit, based on those numbers. Sure, there might be a majority of blue people living in Wakanda that don't cause issues at a statistically important level, but that isn't relevant in this case.

chaos · Oct 10, 2019

Punko said:
That isn't how statistics should be used.

You make statistics for a region, and apply the results from the statistics from that region, to that region.

If 80% of the crimes in Detroit are commited by blue people, it is perfectly rational to screen blue people first in Detroit, based on those numbers. Sure, there might be a majority of blue people living in Wakanda that don't cause issues at a statistically important level, but that isn't relevant in this case.

How is that not relevant? So we agree that even if most crime is committed by blue people, blue people overwhelmingly aren't committing crimes. And yet, the strategy would be to target blue people? Incomplete statistics work, bad application, wasted resources. To say nothing of civil rights concerns. And, again, not what profiling even is. It's just bad statistics, incomplete statistics. Like the people on social media trying to push how something like 90% of the domestic terrorism in the past 18 years has been committed by white males.

Punko · Oct 10, 2019

chaos said:
How is that not relevant? So we agree that even if most crime is committed by blue people, blue people overwhelmingly aren't committing crimes. And yet, the strategy would be to target blue people? Incomplete statistics work, bad application, wasted resources. To say nothing of civil rights concerns. And, again, not what profiling even is. It's just bad statistics, incomplete statistics. Like the people on social media trying to push how something like 90% of the domestic terrorism in the past 18 years has been committed by white males.

It doesn't matter what the global statistics are, if the statistics from group Y in region X are bad, its perfectly fine to screen group Y more often in region X.

I don't know how to explain this better.

Well, I do, the numbers should be representative for and relevant to the area they are applied to.

I understand this isn't simple, but given clear legislation, it certainly isn't too hard.

You mention wasted resources, but neglect the amount of resources that are being wasted by not using data-analysis more in this field. I couldn't care less about what people push on social media, trying to control our local loon is onerous enough.

chaos · Oct 10, 2019

Punko said:
It doesn't matter what the global statistics are, if the statistics from group Y in region X are bad, its perfectly fine to screen group Y more often in region X.

I don't know how to explain this better.

You can't because you're wrong, bro. You're saying "X% of actions are committed by Y people, so Y people commit these actions" but that isn't what the data says. You can't create a profile off one data point. Not all blue people are likely criminals, which is like the whole point of doing profiling. If the best we can do is "target a fifth of the population" then what the fuck are they even doing. Ethnicity is a part of it, but you can't just stop there. But, there's a big push to leave ethnicity out compeltely due to sensitivity over this, which is just as bad.

We should use this profiling tech to help the trannies, though. They need it.

Punko · Oct 10, 2019

See my previous post, we crossed.

Analyse a city of 1 million people, divide into research groups, see if the results are significant with a very low margin of error, if not, divide the 1 million people in 10 sections of 100.000 people, repeat statistical analysis, you'll probably recognize the Pareto effect in the results, and you target the 20% group with higher priority.

Punko · Oct 10, 2019

chaos said:
You can't create a profile off one data point.

Plenty of data-points to go by: Ethnicity, religion, criminal record, age, postal code, reported income, marital status, number of children, highest education level, vaccinated or not, health, these are literally all statistics our government has access to, and all of them get used (suggestions have been made to connect child support to vaccinations), except ethnicity and religion.

The topic annoys me. We have large towns, where there is about 7% unemployment. 90% of that 7% consists of immigrants from non EU-countries. These statistics are reality, but one has to source them from two seperate sources; one on unemployment, and one on the success of integrating immigrants.

Mentioning both of these facts in a single document is racist.

This means initiatives such as free language courses are organised, and these in turn result in people that speak the language well but still don't see why they should pursue a job. They live in streets where everyone else is in a very similar situation.

Spreading the location where people are allowed to live based on their background and ethnicity - the the most racist thing you've read recently? - yet it would help immigrants a ton if they didn't end up in an area which negatively impacts their future chances.

Vanessa · Oct 10, 2019

Cad said:
In all seriousness, I don't see any difference in those terms. They are effectively synonyms. Your gender is your sex.

I think there is a lot of grey area; for example there can be a masculine woman (butch) or an effeminate male... but they are still men/women male/female. They just have additional behavior characteristics. These do not override the terms sex or gender.

Redefining words is how they control your thought.

I actually like this. It's absolutist, but it's NOT wrong. Gender as a word, however, will remain a word and concept EVEN if people (which I doubt will happen) remove it as it to mean how people "feel" if they are male or female or even in between. There will always be gender for language insofar as the European languages... think Der Die Das in Deutsche; all 3 words are "The" but it's masc/fem/neut.

Koushirou said:
This was a thread that didn’t need to be made. And I have no idea what you’re going on about in this post. We’re not out to get you or some shit. You also Lee on doing this shit where you claim you’re peacing out totally for real this time, and it just comes off as yet another cry for attention like 90% of the shit you post on the forums/your constant avatar changes with your picture/etc. I’d wager the vast majority of people don’t want you to leave or get banned or whatever, but maybe just want you to try changing it up a bit? Is being a tranny literally all there is to you? If so, that’s pretty sad. If not, why not post with that side of yourself in mind? Idk, it’s just annoying to see this same shit play out over and over.

You need to take it up with mods. I wouldn't have made this had it not been suggested multiple times.

I will try in the future to not be a one trick pony as far as being "The token tranny" but you may not see how much people will remind me of that whether I like it or not on here. Thanks for your input though, and I DO take it to heart!

Vanessa · Oct 10, 2019

pharmakos said:
Would it be fair to ask that, if Vanessa is to quit bringing up TG shit in every thread, then other people should also be expected to not bring up TG shit just because Vanessa is IN a thread?

I just think making a rule about ANY of it is unneeded and adds to this "eggshell" mentality. I don't want this place to feel like eggshells litter the ground and neither would I wish that on anyone. The idea of policing language is exactly what I stand against.

If people ask me nicely to limit how much I bring up trans shit, I can either respect that or ignore it. I choose to respect it. I won't EVER not bring it up. But I can respect a lot of people's wishes. Will they follow suit? Not up to me; it's up to them~

j00t said:
i mean... if you don't want vanessa to talk about being a woman... stop reading/posting in vanessa's threads? it's sort of like all those people who watch fox or cnn or whatever just to say how terrible it is. i mean, if that's your kink, then more power to you but don't complain about the fire while you throw gasoline on it.

anyway... my entire problem with the TG and to a lesser degree the lgbtq community as a whole is two-fold. one, language. people say things like "the gender you were assigned at birth." no one ASSIGNED your birth. don't put that in the same category as going to a guidance counselor and having them saying "you should be a programmer/actor/teacher/whatever." the doctor that "assigned" your gender didn't do some complex algorithm or scantron test and come up with you being male. they looked at whether or not you had a dick and whether or not you had XY chromosomes.

secondly, no one... NO ONE feels comfortable in their own skin. that's part of being human. no one is BORN racist... they learn that from the people around them. just like no one is born thinking "i'm the wrong gender" unless people put that in their minds. people are uncomfortable with who they are as a biological imperative to seek improvement. so you say, "i AM seeking improvement by becoming the gender i'm supposed to be!" well, who told you that would make anything better? because it doesn't. arguably it makes things worse because you have to deal with now being labeled as "Transgender" as opposed to "Steve."

if you are religious, it breaks down because God (or whatever greater power you believe in) created you as you are on purpose. so you aren't born wrong. if you aren't religious, it falls apart because when nature creates an "accident" like an albino tiger or something, they RARELY live to adulthood because nature fixes it's mistakes by killing them. they've lost their ability to survive and must be removed from the genepool. someone becoming transgender is so abhorrent because without society shouldering the burden, they can't survive either. and this is where people get pissed. society at large has to make arduous changes just to allow an EXTREME minority to make anti-social changes.

so, now that that's all been said... don't think me dis-compassionate. i don't like transgender-ism because it doesn't fix the problem. facts clearly state that the suicide rate hasn't gone down AT ALL so changing genders doesn't make any difference. America has a mental health issue in that we are johnny-on-the-spot with saying someone has a mental health diagnosis but then pretty much drops the ball with doing anything tangible about it. this is coming from a mental health professional. the system is not set up to fix people. it's set up to medicate them. so, here have a reassignment surgery and also here's some hormones that you need to take regularly for years. also, you'll need to take hormone blockers for a while. and there's some side effects so you should probably take some etc, etc, etc

There's so much to digest with this post. It's a good one though and I can agree with the bulk of it.

"Your gender assigned at birth" is meaningless by every definition technically so you don't really have to worry about that one. It's "Your sex assigned at birth". But really, "Your sex assigned at birth" should just be "Your sex" LoL. People use "Your sex assigned at birth" when talking about their gender in conjunction with their sex. People cannot have their gender assigned at birth really.

j00t said:
well, who told you that would make anything better? because it doesn't. arguably it makes things worse because you have to deal with now being labeled as "Transgender" as opposed to "Steve."

So, as far as this... this is factually incorrect. Research has shown that transition is effective at the alleviation of Gender Dysphoria. In society's eyes, yeah you're now "a tranny instead of Steve" which raises different problems for the individual but, yeah.

The suicide rate of 41% is the suicide attempt rate. I don't have accurate numbers for how many of us actually kill ourselves but it's not 41%. Furthermore, the study is old. I can't wait to see new data... I assure you it WILL be lower but I don't want to say that that is a factual claim yet until the actual numbers are in and peer reviewed.

Trannies need to take meds for life, not just awhile. Your meds may change over time, but meds you will need to blend into society as best as possible as well to alleviate any mental dysphoria too.

Cad · Oct 10, 2019

Vanessa said:
I actually like this. It's absolutist, but it's NOT wrong. Gender as a word, however, will remain a word and concept EVEN if people (which I doubt will happen) remove it as it to mean how people "feel" if they are male or female or even in between. There will always be gender for language insofar as the European languages... think Der Die Das in Deutsche; all 3 words are "The" but it's masc/fem/neut.

My point is more about how normalizing things via language is how they normalize and accept things that you really shouldn’t accept.

Once they get you accepting that “gender” is not what you *actually* are, they can say, what, can’t I be the gender I really am?

And with “normal” language, that is very hard to argue with. Heck, yea, if thats your gender go for it.

But it’s not their “gender”... it’s their “gender identity”. But by normalizing the use of the word gender for that purpose, it makes it seem like, in every day language, that they are being reasonable, when in fact they are pushing fringe ideas.

The redefining of words and pushing acceptance of new, fringe definitions is exactly how they control your thoughts.

a_skeleton_03 · Oct 10, 2019

'Hundreds' of young trans people seeking help to return to original sex

A woman who detransitioned in 2018 says there are many people who have had gender reassignment surgery who wish they hadn't.

news.sky.com

I saw this article today and found it fairly interesting.

Vanessa · Oct 10, 2019

Cad said:
My point is more about how normalizing things via language is how they normalize and accept things that you really shouldn’t accept.

Once they get you accepting that “gender” is not what you *actually* are, they can say, what, can’t I be the gender I really am?

And with “normal” language, that is very hard to argue with. Heck, yea, if thats your gender go for it.

But it’s not their “gender”... it’s their “gender identity”. But by normalizing the use of the word gender for that purpose, it makes it seem like, in every day language, that they are being reasonable, when in fact they are pushing fringe ideas.

The redefining of words and pushing acceptance of new, fringe definitions is exactly how they control your thoughts.

So, to be 100% clear here, you, like MaskedMelon, feel "Gender Identity" is the more appropriate term to use in regards to tranny shit?

Gender = for gendered language "Der Die Das"
Gender Identity = someone's feels about their Male / Female self identity?

Concur Cad?

Vanessa · Oct 10, 2019

a_skeleton_03 said:
'Hundreds' of young trans people seeking help to return to original sex

A woman who detransitioned in 2018 says there are many people who have had gender reassignment surgery who wish they hadn't.

news.sky.com

I saw this article today and found it fairly interesting.

I find this fascinating regarding detransitioners:

Most people who fall into the definition of ROGD (Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria... i.e. social contagion of transgenderism that many people like me feel are the true frauds / poseurs) are biological females transitioning to males.

A quote from that article which admits their data is not based on actual research, merely the claims from ONE person who was a detransitioner herself that merely states she's been contacted by the hundreds the article mentions says (oh and btw, I DO believe her, I'm just stating that it is not actual research),

"I think some of the common characteristics are that they tend to be around their mid-20s, they're mostly female and mostly same-sex attracted, and often autistic as well. "

Autistic? A group of people who have a tendency to latch onto things very easily?

So mostly females who are transitioning via "social contagion" at a later age with no signs or evidence of childhood dysphoria tend to be the ones who are detransitioning too?

This makes perfect sense to me.

fanaskin · Oct 10, 2019

Cad said:
My point is more about how normalizing things via language is how they normalize and accept things that you really shouldn’t accept.

Once they get you accepting that “gender” is not what you *actually* are, they can say, what, can’t I be the gender I really am?

And with “normal” language, that is very hard to argue with. Heck, yea, if thats your gender go for it.

But it’s not their “gender”... it’s their “gender identity”. But by normalizing the use of the word gender for that purpose, it makes it seem like, in every day language, that they are being reasonable, when in fact they are pushing fringe ideas.

The redefining of words and pushing acceptance of new, fringe definitions is exactly how they control your thoughts.

The guy who invented the word, literally only meant social signaling in the form of roles. in relation to tranny's it's dude's who want to act like girls, perform different gender roles, shake their ass make me a sandwich, twirl a baton, dress like a flamingo it's all based on performative actions. it's not actually meant that you are something else because you mimic it, that's where it goes off the rails.

Sexologist John Money coined the term gender role in 1955. The term gender role is defined as the actions or responses that may reveal their status as boy, man, girl or woman, respectively.

Lanx · Oct 10, 2019

ZyyzYzzy said:
Who?

BoozeCube said:
It's just another one of his delusions much like pretending he's a woman.

apparently van thinks

pharmakos is an admin

Cad · Oct 10, 2019

Vanessa said:
So, to be 100% clear here, you, like MaskedMelon, feel "Gender Identity" is the more appropriate term to use in regards to tranny shit?

Gender = for gendered language "Der Die Das"
Gender Identity = someone's feels about their Male / Female self identity?

Concur Cad?

Those are the terms I’d use, yes. And I’m not necessarily hostile to adults being trans, and doing whatever they please. I don’t think it’s a good idea, but there’s lots of things people do that I don’t think are a good idea. It’s your body and your life. Chop it as you please.

Where I draw the line is asking me to alter my thinking/actions/behavior/language to accommodate your feelings.

pharmakos · Oct 10, 2019

ZyyzYzzy said:
Who?

BoozeCube said:
It's just another one of his delusions much like pretending he's a woman.

Lanx said:
apparently van thinks pharmakos is an admin

I was just repeating an idea Bandwagon suggested the day before that

Bandwagon said:
If you want to have a conversation/debate about transgenderism without nudity and with more enforcement to keep it respectful, start one in the grown up forum.

No delusions were had

maskedmelon · Oct 10, 2019

not all trannies do that or want to do that. many, like Vanessa are still attracted to women. now you obviously don't need a penis to remain attracted to women, but it precludes certain activities (for those who still want to engage that way whom are a minority), but more importantly GRS has wildly mixed results and there is a HUGE chance that you come out with non-working parts. It's more common to opt for orcbi thougfh simply so you don't have to deal with t-blockers. but then you end up with less material to work with later in in the event that you want to undergo GRS and you need exogenous t because even women need some t. Vanessa can answer for herself though. Those are just some general considerations.

Transgender Facts vs. Fictions

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