Volkswagen gets busted.

The worst part is, I hate VW's and Audi's! And idiots are making me defend them!

What is the deal with diesel being so high in the states? Shit is retardedly popular in Europe.

Agraza_sl said:

What is the deal with diesel being so high in the states? Shit is retardedly popular in Europe.

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Dunno, what is it in Europe? Currently diesel is about $0.15 more per gallon than gas here in the US. Bought gas today for $1.85 and diesel was $2.00/gallon.

I believe it's fourteen twinklecoins per pentalitre-newton-hour in Europe.

Pretty sure it has to do with subsidies.

While I dont think it is possible... wish this somehow leads to Volkswagen selling camper vans in the US again. Living in a beach city in California see old ones every where, and a 25 year old one can go for 20k. The demand is there. They even called the newest one "California"

The Long, Strange Trip Continues with New VW Camper Bus -?*News - Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog

Hoss_sl said:

This is probably a stupid question, but do we have the same diesel? Do you have the ultra low sulphur whatever gobbelty Faulty Armor? Cause it got a lot more expensive when they started requiring that. It used to be cheaper, now it can be as much as twice as much.

Maybe we don't refine enough stateside.

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I did some of the desulfurization units. They started off at $1 billion each and apparently they have a short life span as they are starting the rotation to replace them now. I assume they will be cheaper this round since they are a "proven" tech on this scale and they won't require the labor to make room for them etc...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwint...buy-vw-shares/

Feeling Brave? Now Might Be The Time To Buy Volkswagen Shares

*edit adding this article

It seems like VW got some buddies now.

Four more carmakers join diesel emissions row | Environment | The Guardian

Hoss_sl said:

Maybe we don't refine enough stateside.

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I have a buddy who works as an operator at a refinery here, and he dumbed down the process to basically explain it that when you refine unleaded gasoline, diesel is a byproduct of that process. Vice Versa if you are making diesel. It is only recently that his refinery (Shell) started to purposely make diesel and was adding the capacity/equipment/whatever to do so, with many other refineries following suit of course. That is why we've only just recently seen diesel prices fall to be more in line with unleaded gasoline. I know when I first bought my TDI in 2012 diesel was typically more expensive than premium in my area, now it is almost the same cost as regular.

Please keep in mind this guy is also my #1 drinking buddy so many conversations we have include some level of inebriation so I may have misheard or misunderstood some technical details he was trying to explain to me about the process, but that is what I remember the TL;DL version being.

Before the mandate for Ultra Low Sulfur diesel it was priced about 20-30 center cheaper per gallon than gas. The mileage of vehicles that ran diesel than were much better as well. I have a 2000 Ford F250 7.3 diesel and it still gets around 19 and new it was around 20mpg. For a while after the introduction of ULSD new ones were getting 14-15mpg and now it has gone up, but you have to add urea in a separate tank which adds to the cost. If you run out you can drive in limp home mode at 5mph.

I've been offered 75% of what I paid for my truck and it's 15 years old now.

I have worked in a highly regulated industry as a software engineer with multiple auditors going over our software development process several times a year. As a manager I would have to write reports and let auditors spot check our code and have explain anything they asked. There wasn't a single line of code, including any extra curly brace etc that I couldn't report on. I could show documentation on what business need or bug fix required that line. Who requested it. Who tested it. When they tested it. What new tests were created to test it etc. Regardless of what an engineer checked it in, I could still trace it back to a specific person from a specific business group that made the request for the change. We didn't have huge overhead for this level of tractability either.

I've also worked as a consultant for BMW and seen the testing/documentation they put together for their software and it is very detailed. At a bare minimum VW must have some type of source control system and it can be viewed to see who checked what in.

At the same time the M Performance Power kit software installed on my ECU is treated like some fort knox as far as accessing its software vs the other software on the ECU. The software change gives me an extra 30+ hp/torque but I won't question it and what it does to my emissions =p. I'd be mad if I had to remove it if it uses a different test mode for emissions. But at the same time does my Sport+/Sport Transmission mode need to be tested during emissions? Or can I put it in regular drive/Eco mode for emissions. This just seems like a loopwhole where as the driver, I have the ability to turn on effective emissions mode vs high emissions mode dynamically.

No they can definitely affect other things. To give an example, my car changes throttle response. When in normal mode, the engine hangs on the throttle and changes FAM when I clutch in for a few seconds because otherwise immediately shutting off the throttle (fuel) causes a chunk of extra fuel to get burnt up at higher temps because of the now lean conditions and increases emissions.

In track mode it cares a lot less about saving the whales. There's also the practical issue of stomping on gas will always cause more emissions just because you use more and you can't fix that. Same is true for an auto transmission that shifts later, you are burning more fuel hence more emissions.

AladainAF_sl said:

Some of this is a bit disingenuous, though. First of all saying it emitted "way more NOx under 'normal driving conditions'" is very vague. Are these the same 'normal driving conditions' that the EPA says I can get 40 mpg out of my car, even though I've never once even made it to 35 no matter how I drive?

While VW having software to cheat is no question a bad thing, I think it's a little unfair to knock other car makers under the guise of "normal driving conditions". Additionally, there should be investigations into how specifically these emission tests are done. Even with VW and their cheat software - why must it be that way. Why wouldn't you do an emissions test under very specific and defined driving conditions?

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Because that's hard and stuff, duh.

Also, yes, if you are going to knock all manufacturers for not meeting 'normal' markings, every car maker on the planet is screwed from the EPA standpoint because as soon as you leadfoot you kill 10 trees.