Waco pt2? Standoff in Nevada over cattle on BLM land

Much like the Buffalo problem, 1 gatling gun could solve this Bundy problem.

There is a much longer history to that specific idea than I personally know. We dealt with this shit in the south a very long time ago (and then lost a war because oops slaves, and then kinda had a new structure enforced on us). Midwesterners should have a better idea of the particulars.

What I do know is, "It makes a kind of sense. There are trade offs involved".

And it may even be that running working ranchers off of public land on the slim excuse of protecting the endangered turtle is complete bullshit. And that is most likely a valid concern that needs to be seriously addressed and adjusted. Power does concentrate and agendas which may not be in the public interest are often advanced with public resources.

Unfortunately Bundy isn't sayin ANY of that. He's not even an example of that. He's just spouting some sort of half examined Randian anarchy nonsense. One of those other ranchers that have been forced out before him is probably a better standard bearer in that particular fight.

frqkjt_sl said:

This isn't a fucking traffic stop. I gave a specific reason that I feel guns didn't matter in this case:


Specifically, with a decent size group of people (as compared to a few), non-lethal methods to forcibly remove people seem to be less effective, thus forcing use of excessive force, even if the guys aren't armed.

Either you didn't read, can't understand, or are trolling.

(I do not imply that I'm obviously correct. Maybe I'm wrong. But so far, the counter arguments are 'Nuh Uh' and 'lol he used exaggeration and I'm going to take it seriously.' So convincing.)

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It's like you've been completely blind and deaf the last decade if you missed how easily the police forces around the world ended peaceful protests with tear gas and water guns. Regular Police forces are now equipped to the point that thousands of people protesting in the street can be dealt with within a few days.

There have been multiple examples for both armed and unarmed protests bringing change or even a revolution. Your own fucking country is one of these. For BOTH types.


Why did guns work here? It's pretty simple: Before there was armed militia in the hundreds in the area, the BLM did as they pleased. They tackled grandmas to the ground and continued taking away cattle from Bundy. When the militia was there, they stopped doing that. Apparently, escalating the violence isn't what the feds do when there are heavily armed bystanders. You might say that it was the numbers, not the guns, but history proves you wrong on that. Didn't keep John Pike from spraying students in the face while he was surrounded by hundreds of hostile, unarmed people.

frqkjt_sl said:

You are the one going on about how these guys at the ranch were a bunch of badasses, yes? OWS were a bunch of marxist bums.

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so you're saying OWS should have brought guns because they're a bunch of skinny kids? "Marxist bums", such bullshit -.-

Tuco_sl said:

Seems like legally he's in the wrong here, but does it make sense to charge people to graze on public land? Is the federal government losing anything but letting the guy graze on federal land?

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someone from nevada on p99 forums said having all the foilage eaten greatly reduces the risk of a globally televised wildfire, so it's actually beneficial.

meStevo_sl said:

Bundy family, protesters making new demands for BLM - www.ktnv.com

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The more I hear about this guy the more I really hope the government does Waco his ass.

Tuco_sl said:

Seems like legally he's in the wrong here, but does it make sense to charge people to graze on public land? Is the federal government losing anything but letting the guy graze on federal land?

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The Federal Government has a duty to uphold the law without failure. If the law says X, then itmustdo X, otherwise laws are moot. Is it fair? Is it just? No one gives a fuck. Has this guy been there since Jesus was shitting his diaper? No one gives a fuck. The law says x, then x must be enforced.

If anyone had any balls, then this redneck would have had all his assets seized and him and all his inbred cronies held for income tax evasion at least. At very least.

Jesus christ, it's Dewey Crowe IRL.

I'm amazed that the list of demands doesn't end with, "And I want a fucking lifetime supply of Miller, too!"

Quineloe_sl said:

1)Regular Police forces are now equipped to the point that thousands of people protesting in the street can be dealt with within a few days.

2) Why did guns work here? It's pretty simple: Before there was armed militia in the hundreds in the area, the BLM did as they pleased.

3) so you're saying OWS should have brought guns because they're a bunch of skinny kids? "Marxist bums", such bullshit -.-

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Most of your post is gibberish, but
1) This is actually an attempt at a counter-example to refute me. I counter: regular police forces, and regular citizens, are not what we're dealing with here. It's Nevada desert, and the people are militia. Just because NY police can deal with unarmed urban trash easily, in the city, does not mean BLM could deal with determined, unarmed militia, in the desert, the same way.

2) What if they'd come without guns? You're assuming guns were the decisive factor in militia intervention. That is the exact claim I dispute, so you can't counter me by assuming it. Got it? See previous posts, where I tell you exactly how to refute my argument.

My position is not even close to unassailable. The only reason this goes on is due to complete lack of comprehension here on how to apply logic to counter a very simple argument. I've continued because I find it humorous to watch the fail. It's like a Monty Python skit.

3) I'm willing to grant you made a mistake of interpretation, and that this effort is not indicative of your ability to comprehend .. language. You're attributing to me the exact opposite of what I said.

I said OWS were a bunch of pussies. I said specifically protest should be non-violent, and protestors must have group solidarity, determination, courage, even when facing violence, to hold course and not break, at least to the point that it becomes politically untenable for a crackdown to continue.

I make this point to differentiate between protest and armed rebellion. Protest is a tactic to sway public opinion and influence elected politicians as a result - it only works in a democracy. In a totalitarian state, those in charge are not elected, care much less for public opinion, thus deal with attempts at protest harshly. See: China.

you are one condescending piece of shit.

a regular police force with riot gear ferried over from Las Vegas could have easily dealt with unarmed militia, and they would have.

CRUSH HIM, QUINELOE

They were impeding traffic on an interstate. I actually do doubt that any large out of county dispersal force would have been organized unless the disruption lasted for longer than a day. Guns or no guns, that shit costs money. It would basically be handled exactly like it was, either way.

It's just cheaper to let the rednecks piss off the truck drivers, making assholes of themselves in the process, and generating a popular sentiment to shut that shit down.

The response to these hillbillies has almost been TOO reasonable. It just emboldens them. But I do prefer that to joining them in the insanity.

meStevo_sl said:

The BLM has like 18k issued grazing permits, so this is a pretty common thing. He's even willing to pay supposedly but he wants to pay the state/county, not the government.

He's made all sorts of new demands now... including removing the toll booths at the nearby national parks, and demanding the BLM (who isn't even there anymore) surrender their weapons and come place them under an American Flag at their protest camp.

Bundy family, protesters making new demands for BLM - www.ktnv.com

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I'd be Ok with a drone strike to put an end to this idiot. Let's go 0bummer, get with the hellfires!

Quineloe_sl said:

someone from nevada on p99 forums said having all the foilage eaten greatly reduces the risk of a globally televised wildfire, so it's actually beneficial.

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I can't tell if you're trolling or not

Ambiturner_sl said:

I can't tell if you're trolling or not

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How is this trolling? I don't live there, I don't claim this to be fact. I do know that when half of your southwest burns to the ground due to wildfires, we see it in the news, so apparently it's not a made up problem.

The southwest does burn to the ground every 2 years, that's very true. But generally not this part of the southwest and even if it did 1,000 cows aren't going to make much of a difference either way. They might make the smoke smell better.

The parts of the southwest that do regularly turn into infernos have a lot more cows in them. I mean the stated benefit is just a bit exaggerated for effect.



That's just a snapshot, but you'll notice that Nevada is significantly less burny than arizona, texas, new mexico, or utah.

For reference: North Carolina is about the size of Germany, flipped 90 degrees.

You can find North Carolina a few ways. It's about halfway down the East Coast. It is the only State on that map which is actually important. And we have mastered the ancient discipline of how to set our portion of the ocean on fire.

We're god damn pyromancers down here. Best keep your yankee asses in Jersey, ifin you know what's good fer ya.

Quineloe_sl said:

How is this trolling? I don't live there, I don't claim this to be fact. I do know that when half of your southwest burns to the ground due to wildfires, we see it in the news, so apparently it's not a made up problem.

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It's almost entirely desert, it's not catching on fire.

Simple solution..

Kill cattle, have BBQ.

Iannis_sl said:

For reference: North Carolina is about the size of Germany, flipped 90 degrees.

You can find North Carolina a few ways. It's about halfway down the East Coast. It is the only State on that map which is actually important. And we have mastered the ancient discipline of how to set our portion of the ocean on fire.

We're god damn pyromancers down here. Best keep your yankee asses in Jersey, ifin you know what's good fer ya.

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The real question is North Carolina part of the South?