War with Syria

fanaskin

fanaskin

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1.) we are saying the same thing really
2.) I thought it was obvious, the sea and air power that went into BoB and the preparations for sea lion, planes and ships. re-tasked to sink shipping.
3.) nobody really believes this, the decision to attack Russia without finishing off England is universally seen as stupid even at the time you can read a lot of people commenting this way in period pieces. historians come afterwords and show the numbers and equipment lost at Stalingrad and say "turning point" but really the war was lost opening up a second front, Stalingrad was just an example of why it was strategically stupid, there wasn't the resources specifically oil to try and conquer a territory that was 4x the size of Germany AND fight a 2-3 front war at the same time.
4.) is a funny way of agreeing with me then declaring i'm wrong somehow
 
hodj

hodj

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The thing about Hitler is, see, he made the trains run on time.

So he wasn't all bad.

Just, you know, mostly bad.

But hey if you had to get to work on time, Hitler was basically your national hero.
 
Aaron

Aaron

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hodj_sl said:
The thing about Hitler is, see, he made the trains run on time.

So he wasn't all bad.

Just, you know, mostly bad.

But hey if you had to get to work on time, Hitler was basically your national hero.
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That was Mussolini.
 
Heylel

Heylel

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What saddens me the most about this is that we're about to have an entire generation of voters who have never known a single year in which we weren't at war. We're going on 13 years in Iraq and Afghanistan, and now we're adding Syria. Yes, I realize that war is the more natural state of international affairs and that peace is an aberration, but it bothers me to think that we don't even get any downtime between them anymore.
 
khalid

khalid

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Heylel_sl said:
What saddens me the most about this is that we're about to have an entire generation of voters who have never known a single year in which we weren't at war.
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It isn't as if it effects anyone other than those in the military. Sure, we are at war but our country is hardly at a war state. We aren't suffering rationings and you have to follow the news pretty hardcore even to see the casualties. Even the casualties are very low over time compared to pretty much any conflict, and when compared to natural deaths are a simple drop in the bucket.

Don't get me wrong, I am against getting involved with Syria. However, our poor nation isn't suffering from our current war and probably wouldn't suffer from going into syria. If anything the problem is that we are too insulated from the conflicts.
 
Eomer

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Heylel_sl said:
What saddens me the most about this is that we're about to have an entire generation of voters who have never known a single year in which we weren't at war. We're going on 13 years in Iraq and Afghanistan, and now we're adding Syria. Yes, I realize that war is the more natural state of international affairs and that peace is an aberration, but it bothers me to think that we don't even get any downtime between them anymore.
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A limited intervention in Syria is hardly a "war" in the context of past US wars and interventions. Otherwise you're going to have to extend your timeline way back. Kosovo was 98/99 I believe, Iraq was bombed intermittently throughout the 90's, Afghanistan more or less the same, Sudan was bombed in 98, Bosnia had a UN sanctioned no-fly zone in 93, other shit was going on throughout the former Yugoslavia prior to that, Gulf War was in 90/91, and I don't think we even need to get in to how many proxy wars were fought all over the world throughout the 60's, 70's, and 80's.

So yeah, with the exception of the second Iraq invasion in 2003, I really don't see anything particularly exceptional about the last 13 years as compared to any other part of modern history since WW2. If anything you can make the argument that shit in the 90's and 00's has been a lot calmer as compared to the 50's (Korean War), 60/70's (Vietnam and a fuckload of others), and the 80's (lots of fun shit in South America).
 
Heylel

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khalid_sl said:
It isn't as if it effects anyone other than those in the military. Sure, we are at war but our country is hardly at a war state. We aren't suffering rationings and you have to follow the news pretty hardcore even to see the casualties. Even the casualties are very low over time compared to pretty much any conflict, and when compared to natural deaths are a simple drop in the bucket.
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That's the worst part. It's just how we live now, and no one even feels it.
 
fanaskin

fanaskin

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Heylel_sl said:
What saddens me the most about this is that we're about to have an entire generation of voters who have never known a single year in which we weren't at war.
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I would argue that the american civilian population has little/no feedback or daily reminder that 'war" is even going on because we aren't in a war time economy, there's no supply shortages or shared sacrifice going on.

yes we've been at war for over a decade but does anyone not in or related to people in the military in america even feel the effects of it beyond some gas price fluctuations? you can't even really say their paychecks are smaller because it was made clear after the soviet union collapsed that there would be no "peace dividend" on military spending.
 
fanaskin

fanaskin

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Russia says it's compiled 100-page report blaming Syrian rebels for a chemical weapons attack


Russia says it has compiled a 100-page report detailing what it says is evidence that Syrian rebels, not forces loyal to President Bashar Assad, were behind a deadly sarin gas attack in an Aleppo suburb earlier this year.

In a statement posted on the Russian Foreign Ministry's website late Wednesday. Russia said the report had been delivered to the United Nations in July and includes detailed scientific analysis of samples that Russian technicians collected at the site of the alleged attack, Khan al Asal.

Russia said its investigation of the March 19 incident was conducted under strict protocols established by the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, the international agency that governs adherence to treaties prohibiting the use of chemical weapons. It said samples that Russian technicians had collected had been sent to OPCW-certified laboratories in Russia.

The report itself was not released. But the statement drew a pointed comparison between what it said was the scientific detail of the report and the far shorter intelligence summaries that the United States, Britain and France have released to justify their assertion that the Syrian government launched chemical weapons against Damascus suburbs on Aug. 21. The longest of those summaries, by the French, ran nine pages. Each relies primarily on circumstantial evidence to make its case, and they disagree with one another on some details, including the number of people who died in the attack.
 
Eomer

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Heylel_sl said:
That's the worst part. It's just how we live now, and no one even feels it.
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Other than Vietnam, Korea and the two Iraqs, which of the dozens of conflicts the US has been involved in has the general US populace "felt" in the past 60 years? I'm genuinely curious how you think that it's any different today than it was 20 or 40 years ago. Because I just don't see it.
 
Tuco

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fanaskin_sl said:
Russia says it's compiled 100-page report blaming Syrian rebels for a chemical weapons attack


Russia says it has compiled a 100-page report detailing what it says is evidence that Syrian rebels, not forces loyal to President Bashar Assad, were behind a deadly sarin gas attack in an Aleppo suburb earlier this year.

In a statement posted on the Russian Foreign Ministry's website late Wednesday. Russia said the report had been delivered to the United Nations in July and includes detailed scientific analysis of samples that Russian technicians collected at the site of the alleged attack, Khan al Asal.

Russia said its investigation of the March 19 incident was conducted under strict protocols established by the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, the international agency that governs adherence to treaties prohibiting the use of chemical weapons. It said samples that Russian technicians had collected had been sent to OPCW-certified laboratories in Russia.

The report itself was not released. But the statement drew a pointed comparison between what it said was the scientific detail of the report and the far shorter intelligence summaries that the United States, Britain and France have released to justify their assertion that the Syrian government launched chemical weapons against Damascus suburbs on Aug. 21. The longest of those summaries, by the French, ran nine pages. Each relies primarily on circumstantial evidence to make its case, and they disagree with one another on some details, including the number of people who died in the attack.
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Too bad we can't read that report. I don't trust the intel report from the US govt and I trust the intel report from Russia even less.
 
Jozu

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I love how Russia has a HUNDRED PAGE report! Good ol Russian government. They always did believe in quantity over quality (Strelets, WW2 etc), so its no surprise that their assesment of the chemical attack has produced a 100 page report which finds the opposition at fault. Now, we cant actually read this report, but it does have ONE HUNDRED PAGES, guys, so we have to take it seriously!

lol.
 
Araysar

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He's already stuck in new england, living in a basement. The gulag might actually be an improvement
 
khalid

khalid

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Jozu_sl said:
Good ol Russian government.
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Yep. They didn't ask for a report on the causes. They said "produce a 100 page report that blames it on the rebels". I wonder if they actually bothered to manufacture evidence up to 100 pages or just did alot of double and triple-spacing.
 
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