Weight Loss Thread
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Warmuth
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I don't recall ever saying it makes no difference. Clearly more is better on a person by person basis. Comparison between two individuals is not the same thing with regards to who's got the higher number, unless it's some absurd amount. Hypogonadal vs. normal, normal vs steroids, that sort of thing. We're talking natural, healthy, men.
Khane
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Right, you're saying there is no difference between a male who is at 400 and a male who is at 1000 because both are in the normal range. But there is a difference between a man who is at 1000 and a man who is at 1100 because one has what is considered hypergonadism. I'm sorry but your argument is silly.
900 is triple the amount of 300, if 3x as much isn't an absurd amount more what is?
900 is triple the amount of 300, if 3x as much isn't an absurd amount more what is?
Itlan
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Hm. So what if a dude with 300 T performs the same as a dude with 900 T? Same overall performance in athletics, same aesthetics, etc, because 300 is his natural baseline while the other dude is naturally at 900. If a doctor were to think Mr. 300 is "low" and gives him some test, that dude is obviously going to feel better and more energized if he's out of his normal range. Wouldn't the same thing happen to Mr. 900 if he were to take TRT as well?
Unless you're saying Mr. 900 will invariably outperform/look better than Mr. 300 simply based on those numbers and no external forces. So test levels are absolute? Holy shit I have no idea what I'm saying anymore. Fuck your thyroids, I'm getting some green tea.
Unless you're saying Mr. 900 will invariably outperform/look better than Mr. 300 simply based on those numbers and no external forces. So test levels are absolute? Holy shit I have no idea what I'm saying anymore. Fuck your thyroids, I'm getting some green tea.
Cad
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If the old hydroxycut with ephedra didn't make you lose weight, you must have had mccheese eating discipline.
Itlan
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Convo
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Dunkin Donuts has some awesome Unsweet Iced TeaNo one gives a shit about your new made up marketing disease. T counts are just another thing to sell you new pills.
Thread is now about favorite iced teas.
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Who needed hydroxycut? I remember back in the 90s you could buy pure ephedrine pills straight from GNC. A few of us used to take them at work for that extra morning "kick". Then all the reports of people dying from the shit started to emerge.
Cad
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A guy at work took ephedra for a while but he was fucking sweaty sitting at his desk and had jitters. It was ridiculous haha.
Warmuth
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Come on, you know there are outliers in anything. Normal range is what is expected, what is commonly seen. Falling outside of it is no guarantee of anything. There will be a certain amount of people both above and below normal range exhibiting no symptoms either way. A combination of both numbers and symptoms are used. Not everyone falling slightly outside range will have any issues. Just as some few will have symptoms within it. It's a guideline.
You've got to get it out of your head that everyone responds to test in the same way. Two men ,both with a level of 900 ,and HEALTHY, would not generally have the same amount of free test, aromatization, shbg or receptor sensitivity. This is why you can't assume total test numbers inherently grant some magical advantage. The guy with 400 could have better metrics in how it's utilized and outperform the guy with 900. He also could not, either outcome is possible.
Cad
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I think we all get it that there are a lot of factors that affect how you can use hormones and everyone will respond differently. 500 in one guy isn't the same as 500 in another. Don't think anyone will dispute that. But all things being equal, higher is better until it gets "too high". Same with thyroid function (well, except with TSH, lower is better... ) you want more but not "too much." There's obviously going to be factors with each person that affect what the number means, but when you say "outliers" I think it's a stretch to say that the sensitivity and aromatization can vary so much that a guy with 3x the test level will respond worse than a guy with 1/3rd as much as him. Thats the outlier, not the converse.
Cad
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Khane
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900tt Cad has a distinct advantage in all but the edge cases. 300tt Warmuth is gonna be considered "hypogonadal" as you put it in about 5-10 years because t levels drop as you age. Cad will have no such issue. That's using your own argument against you.
Warmuth
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You're right 300 is where you'd look for symptoms, 400vs1200 would be better if you want to stick to your 3x amount. I'll still argue that overall genetics matter way more than a total tt number all day. Maybe when we're 60 that'll turn around. Test levels in healthy males drop about 1% a year so it'll take some time. Mine is still sky high at 43.
Not to mention that once hypogonadism hits you're no longer comparing two healthy people are you? That's a legit, diagnosed, medical condition.
Not to mention that once hypogonadism hits you're no longer comparing two healthy people are you? That's a legit, diagnosed, medical condition.