Weight Loss Thread

Eidal

Eidal

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Ossoi_sl said:
I'm pretty sure Charles Poliquin knows a thing or two about strength & conditioning of professional athletes
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I'm sure he does -- but until he cites a source other than ("I'm Charles Poliquin andI know."), his article quality suffers. I was about to link that shit to friends who are interested in soccer but the entire thing reads like a terrible cracked article. None of us know who this guy is so why the fuck would they jump out of their office chairs and shout ("Fuck, guess I have to go do exercises Ihatebecause some guy on the internet that Ossoi knows says I should.")

If he was citing anything other than his own ego, he'd be more persuasive.
 
McCheese

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He should just toss in some fake citations, cause who reads that shit anyway amirite?!
 
Ossoi

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Eidal_sl said:
I'm sure he does -- but until he cites a source other than ("I'm Charles Poliquin andI know."), his article quality suffers. .
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I'm pretty sure the number of Olympic/Professional athletes he's trained give him all the credibility he needs.

Please tell me exactly what he has said that is "scientifically" wrong and also, please link me to relevant studies that he should have cited.

Also, you do know what the word "reflections" means in the context of that article? - an opinion.

Besides, the gist of both articles was that soccer players can benefit from doing more strength and conditioning work. Players with bodies like Ronaldo are the exception. Why exactly would you need studies to prove that?
 
Khane

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Ossoi_sl said:
Besides, the gist of both articles was that soccer players can benefit from doing more strength and conditioning work. Players with bodies like Ronaldo are the exception. Why exactly would you need studies to prove that?
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Because you can't just say shit and magically have it be true. You need to prove it, there needs to be evidence other than some guy saying it's true.
 
Ossoi

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Yes, I'm sure evaluating the lower back strength of professional footballers is a worthy scientific endeavor

The guys 30+ years of experience training pro athletes makes him a qualified and credible source on this subject

Anyone with half a clue about football would realise he's talking sense
 
Cad

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I guess the question would be whether increased fitness would be determinative in any football matches, or if the drivers behind wins are all being "fit enough" and utilizing skill with passing/shooting/positioning. For every hour spent training they run the risk of injury (and decrease the risk of other injuries as they strengthen their core, but still), and if that isn't going to help in a normal way - because the determining factor is ball handling and positioning skill, not fitness, as long as you are "fit enough" - then maybe that extra fitness time isn't helpful?

Speculation here.
 
Khane

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Signed up for a new gym yesterday after having been out of a routine for almost a year and a half. I had rotator cuff surgery 6 years ago on my left shoulder and can feel the scar tissue limiting movement and causing issues again and in February of 2013 separated my right shoulder. So I decided to talk to a trainer who supposedly has a background in PT because every time I've tried to do the PT exercises I did after my surgery I ended up tweaking out my right shoulder.

When the hell did gym trainers get so expensive? It's $240 for 4 half hour sessions. That's $120/hr. What the fuck?
 
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Disp_sl

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As soon as people stopped paying them and realized they're mostly a waste of money since you can get everything they tell you online for free.
 
Foggy

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I work out at LA Fitness and just laugh at the "workouts" trainers put their clients through. Thirty minutes on bodybuilding will net more knowledge and a much better workout plan.
 
Khane

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Well this isn't for basic workout technique or knowledge. It's for essentially physical therapy with weights because every time I've done PT in the past it's been really low intensity and there are so many clients there they say "OK go do your stretches and then do your band work, I'll see you when you're done for your bullshit electrotherapy". And I figured it would be better to talk to someone who can actually work with me on range of motion exercises with actual weights and gym equipment. Don't get me wrong, I like resistance bands but wanted some free weight shit to do as well. But this is fucking ridiculous.
 
Foggy

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Did your insurance not cover PT visits after surgery? Don't ask some dumbfuck gym trainer, go to a proper PT.

Evidently it covered class PT? Strange to not have one on one. Also, maybe you should do what the PT said instead of, "hurr but I want free weights." And therapy is suppose to be low intensity. It takes months to properly rehab a shoulder. You cannot just start ripping weights above your head.
 
Khane

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Foggy_sl said:
Did your insurance not cover PT visits after surgery? Don't ask some dumbfuck gym trainer, go to a proper PT.

Evidently it covered class PT? Strange to not have one on one. Also, maybe you should do what the PT said instead of, "hurr but I want free weights." And therapy is suppose to be low intensity. It takes months to properly rehab a shoulder. You cannot just start ripping weights above your head.
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OK so to give you more background. I've gone to PT several times. Every time it was "one on one" meaning I would show up the first day, and they'd show me some shitty exercises that they obviously give to every single shoulder injured patient. Every time I'd go back they'd send me off to do my exercises while they sat in their office or went to go "electro massage" one of their other patients. I've gone to three different PT places, one before my rotator cuff surgery (left shoulder) which was about 7 years ago (which didn't help at all), one right after my shoulder surgery (which I suppose helped but it's hard to tell because the surgery clearly helped), and one after I separated my right shoulder in February of 2013 which also didn't do shit. So I've been to 3 different "proper PTs" and none of them helped me. They all had obviously "canned" routines they give to every single one of their patients for any shoulder injury regardless of what it is.

I am not "hurr durring" free weights. I have been out of the gym for a year and a half because of this latest shoulder injury, I've tried a few times to go back and each time the first day I attempted very limited exercise with resistance bands and low weight and felt pain so I stopped. Separated shoulder injuries suck because it's basically just "rest until it feels ok and learn how to deal with it, we could do surgery but chances are it'll just separate again so it ain't worth it". I have never even once done an overhead press since my shoulder surgery. Not even once in over 6 years, and I never will again because there are other ways to strengthen my shoulders.

I appreciate that you think I'm a moron who hasn't consulted doctors or gone to PT but that isn't the case. I specifically asked them if they had a trainer with a PT background, they told me this guy does. That's why I'm going to him. I've already gone to a free session and he seems to know what he's talking about. Insurance covers PT but I am on a high deductible insurance plan so I'd be paying out of pocket until I hit my deductible (approximately $1000 away from that and it's close to the end of the year so there is no benefit in doing so), meanwhile my company will subsidize the gym visits by $35/mo so this is the better option... maybe. I'm trying this out.
 
Eidal

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Foggy_sl said:
I work out at LA Fitness and just laugh at the "workouts" trainers put their clients through. Thirty minutes on bodybuilding will net more knowledge and a much better workout plan.
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On Monday, some trainer had this scrawny kid in the power rack with 185lb (about 100lbs too much) on his back teaching him to squat by having him just collapse onto a box. It was gruesome -- you could literally see his back/spine compressing. There is just zero way to "intervene" and say ("Oh hey bud I've only been lifting a few months, but I read a ton of shit on the internet and thistraineris full of shit.")

It should be fucking criminal for these "trainers" to do shit like that, and I see it EVERY DAY at my gym. The most common "wtf" occurances are obese people doing ridiculous HIIT shit -- if someone is fat they have no business hopping around while gassed doing crazy box jumps or what not. That's just a grievous ankle injury waiting to happen.

Semi-related; my wife and I got three free lessons with a PT with our membership. So, the first one is a meet/greet where they put you on a scale and explain BMI/BMR/TDEE and other shit. Already knew that but good stuff; many people don't. We didn't want to schedule our second on the spot so we said we'd be in touch, ran into the guy next week after seeing some other trainers set up circuits for people... the trainer says: ("Oh hey man, when are you going to schedule that session? I got something in mind that will have you sore for days!") Uh, pass you fucking idiot. If I wanted to be sore for days I'd just do 30 minutes of burpees and 30 minutes of lunges -- but that's when it occurred to me, the fucking newbs that bungie in and out of gyms for their entire life associate soreness with "good workout". They never actually get strong enough to really hurt themselves, so form isn't a priority. Part of me feels bad for them, but the other part is like: ("Everything you fucking need is a weekend of googling away.")

tldr; fuck personal trainers.
 
Khane

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I hope you realize all the awesome research you've done on the internet on how to lift and all the youtube videos you've watched are from trainers. I mean yeah, most of them are retarded, especially ones at major chain gyms, but they aren't all retarded.
 
Foggy

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Khane_sl said:
OK so to give you more background. I've gone to PT several times. Every time it was "one on one" meaning I would show up the first day, and they'd show me some shitty exercises that they obviously give to every single shoulder injured patient. Every time I'd go back they'd send me off to do my exercises while they sat in their office or went to go "electro massage" one of their other patients. I've gone to three different PT places, one before my rotator cuff surgery (left shoulder) which was about 7 years ago (which didn't help at all), one right after my shoulder surgery (which I suppose helped but it's hard to tell because the surgery clearly helped), and one after I separated my right shoulder in February of 2013 which also didn't do shit. So I've been to 3 different "proper PTs" and none of them helped me. They all had obviously "canned" routines they give to every single one of their patients for any shoulder injury regardless of what it is.

I am not "hurr durring" free weights. I have been out of the gym for a year and a half because of this latest shoulder injury, I've tried a few times to go back and each time the first day I attempted very limited exercise with resistance bands and low weight and felt pain so I stopped. Separated shoulder injuries suck because it's basically just "rest until it feels ok and learn how to deal with it, we could do surgery but chances are it'll just separate again so it ain't worth it". I have never even once done an overhead press since my shoulder surgery. Not even once in over 6 years, and I never will again because there are other ways to strengthen my shoulders.

I appreciate that you think I'm a moron who hasn't consulted doctors or gone to PT but that isn't the case. I specifically asked them if they had a trainer with a PT background, they told me this guy does. That's why I'm going to him. I've already gone to a free session and he seems to know what he's talking about. Insurance covers PT but I am on a high deductible insurance plan so I'd be paying out of pocket until I hit my deductible (approximately $1000 away from that and it's close to the end of the year so there is no benefit in doing so), meanwhile my company will subsidize the gym visits by $35/mo so this is the better option... maybe. I'm trying this out.
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Fair enough. You made it sound like you went a couple of times, thought it was bullshit, and quit. It still seems like you are against PT because they provided a pre-planned exercise. It also sounds like you have had shit luck with PT. When I have had PT, the therapist explained what exercises I was doing, why I was doing them, and where we were headed. At the same time, they are going to have a similar program for every single person with the same surgery. You have to establish a baseline and then augment as you see how that particular person's body reacts.

Good luck with the shoulder. They suck to deal with. I have issues with mine from time to time but surgery has never been required.

edit: regarding Trainers, ya there are good ones but they are hard to find at major gyms. You will have better luck at nice country clubs and more personalized gyms.

@Eidal, I see the same damn thing at LA Fitness. Most of the clients are really small and just starting out or woefully out of shape. They put them through plyo and low intensity machine weight work. They never improve or look noticeable different. It is so dumb. At the same time, if you paid a trainer and he said, "Get on a diet and a treadmill," he probably wouldn't be paid.
 
Khane

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Foggy_sl said:
Fair enough. You made it sound like you went a couple of times, thought it was bullshit, and quit. It still seems like you are against PT because they provided a pre-planned exercise. It also sounds like you have had shit luck with PT. When I have had PT, the therapist explained what exercises I was doing, why I was doing them, and where we were headed. At the same time, they are going to have a similar program for every single person with the same surgery. You have to establish a baseline and then augment as you see how that particular person's body reacts.

Good luck with the shoulder. They suck to deal with. I have issues with mine from time to time but surgery has never been required.
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The biggest problem I have is I went twice a week for 3 months and they never changed or augmented my exercises. And when a strong 26 year old is sitting next to a feeble 70 year old doing the same exercises, yea. Something is wrong. But this happened at all three places (well not sitting next to a 70 year old, but them never changing or modifying the routine based on progress). In fact, they never even came over to watch me after the first day to see if this was too easy or if I was even doing it right. So I'm trying something else before I google physical therapy for separated shoulder videos.
 
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Khane_sl said:
The biggest problem I have is I went twice a week for 3 months and they never changed or augmented my exercises. And when a strong 26 year old is sitting next to a feeble 70 year old doing the same exercises, yea. Something is wrong. But this happened at all three places (well not sitting next to a 70 year old, but them never changing or modifying the routine based on progress). In fact, they never even came over to watch me after the first day to see if this was too easy or if I was even doing it right. So I'm trying something else before I google physical therapy for separated shoulder videos.
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I swear you were in the NYC area..if you are, and you want to revisit PT, check out SPEAR. I kind of had the same experience as you with previous PTs, but then ended seeing SPEAR for 6 months for a back issue. They were pretty good and it was similar to foggy experiences. It wasn't cheap though. Hopefully insurance will cover it, but you may need a dr to right a request for the PT.
 
Cad

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The LA fitness trainers are nothing more than desk monkeys in different shirts that walk around with you. One of my friends got hired as one and he has literally no qualifications. There might be trainers at other gyms that are actually helpful.
 
Khane

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matsb84_sl said:
I swear you were in the NYC area..if you are, and you want to revisit PT, check out SPEAR. I kind of had the same experience as you with previous PTs, but then ended seeing SPEAR for 6 months for a back issue. They were pretty good and it was similar to foggy experiences. It wasn't cheap though. Hopefully insurance will cover it, but you may need a dr to right a request for the PT.
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Close to NYC, but not close enough to do PT there haha. I live in CT.
 
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