Well, now what?

Lithose_sl said:

TLDR

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lol you spite negged me for saying your post was unnecessarily long.

kitsune_sl said:

I tried so hard man, I really wanted it to stick. I don't think the game is horrible per say, just that there's no reason to continue once you've played up to 50

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The trick for me was not getting wrapped up in giving a shit about what MMO's were on the horizon*, and just casually picking up a game or two to have fun with it - even if just for a few hours. I think what happened is, we got pulled into this fantasy world in Everquest that was everything we'd ever wanted from table-top > online game, and it hit us hard. We've been trying to recapture that magic this entire time, with an endless amount of games that mimic the original EQ, but you can never recreate the magic of your first time.

That's why I treat MMO's like women; let's kick it, I'll buy you a drink, I'll play with you for a few hours. We most likely will never see each other again after a few days. Keep it real, bitch!



*pun.

What we really need is better tools to create MMO's and cheaper hardware to run them. That's the next revolution in MMO design. It won't be some new way to make a game, it will be lowering the cost and difficulty of making them overall. Once that happens, and the investment horizon shrinks, you'll start to see people more inclined to create niche MMO's that might not appeal to broad markets but appeal to small, rabid fan bases of niche markets. That simply can't happen now because of the huge money and time investment from private sources (Though this might change with crowd funding)....Those sources essentially require an MMO be made appealing to as many people as possible.

But that will be the key--to eliminate that huge money sink and make it easier for independent labels to create and engineer good, quality MMO's. Given how complex the games are, I'm not saying it will happen soon. But hopefully someday.

Swagdaddy_sl said:

There is no tolerable "Required Group Play" MMOs out there. These new "Everything can easily solo" MMOs are fucking garbage.

"I can only play for an hour a week and don't want to fall behind" faggots ruined MMOs. I don't give a fuck if your a single dad/business owner/professional cup stacker/blahblahblah and need something casual, it's about time you found a new hobby instead of buying all these McMMOs (To coin someone else's phrase) and stop destroying the genre. It's retarded I'm stuck playing emus of ancient games.

There is probably some contradictory shit in my post but I really don't care, sick of playing emus and I'm mad as fuk pals.

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what are you mad as fuk about bra? Not everyone can raid hard modes in WoW, why aren't you doing it? It requires group play.

Group play shouldn't be reserved strictly for raiding/pvp it should be organic to the game itself.

Swagdaddy_sl said:

lol you spite negged me for saying your post was unnecessarily long.

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haha, complaining about negs. What a bitch.

First neg I've seen someone give for being negged instead of relating to a post, you obv mad as hell.

Back to the topic at hand, yeah most MMOs are the same regurgitated shit these days because everyone has to feel like they are "winning" regardless of time/effort commitment.

Swagdaddy_sl said:

First neg I've seen someone give for being negged instead of relating to a post, mad as hell.

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Nope, I went back and read your post. I saw that your views on MMO gaming were myopic and as bad as an old man screaming that everything is worse today--just because. I realized that the only posts you can make are short bursts of nostalgia addled shit that are incoherent, and angry due to your inability to understand what you want, and even less ability to communicate those desires. (Which you even admit, here.)

Swagdaddy_sl said:

There is probably some contradictory shit in my post but I really don't care, sick of playing emus and I'm mad as fuk pals.

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This leads you to produce the turd which you dropped in this thread, and then forces you to search out conversations clearly above your intelligence and shake your fists in anger, before flinging said turd, like a chimp might at his human zoo keepers. You got the neg for the shit quality post, combined with attempting to degrade the conversation down to your level. If I had gone up and seen something genuinely interesting, I'd have probably given you a +, but it was shit, so you got the neg.

Hope that clears it up, and yes I mad bro. You're as bad for MMO's as the retards who can't complete the new derp mode in WoW.

It has nothing to do with nostalgia, new MMOs are absurdly repetitive with WoW-like questing and easy mode solo abilities for every class. That's just the way it is, difficulty/social interaction nerfed into oblivion for the convenience of the most casual common denominator.

Also you went back and created a false excuse for the neg because you were mad I shit on your Stephen King like novel post, pathetic.

James_sl said:

Blizzard can't even make Diablo right anymore and they invented the goddamn genre

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Blizzard invented roguelikes? lolwat

I just think designers need to get back to creating big, expansive worlds. Stop allowing little timmy and sally soccer mom to dictate your game design. Make the game you want to make and make us play by the rules of said world. It can be rough and harsh. Take skill. Dungeons can be uninstanced and very numerous. Let there be some complex mechanics. Allow me to place my own stat points and risk fucking up my character. Allow me to make my character unique. Allow classes to have a purpose and fill a role. Allow them to be a little unbalanced and not be able to do everything. Allow the travel to be time consuming enough that one guild cant lock down every dungeon or raid mob. Allow many races that have limited classes from a lore perspective. That adds flavor. Stop catering to the solo, easier game, convenient crowd. Give me a game I can invest some time in and not be done in a month. And give me some unique items that really are rare and dont make them bind on pickup or equip. Bring back some sane developers.

Swagdaddy_sl said:

It has nothing to do with nostalgia, new MMOs are absurdly repetitive with WoW-like questing and easy mode solo abilities for every class. That's just the way it is, difficulty/social interaction nerfed into oblivion for the convenience of the most casual common denominator.

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Wow is more difficult from an individual player perspective than anything in MMO's before it. The introduction of scripting increased APM requirements by a massive amount. Unless you're confusing time spent with difficulty? And "repetitive"...yes, because nothing was repetitive in older MMO's, killing the same Froglok 30000000000000 times to get through a hell level was a cornucopia of new experiences.

Now, I fully agree older MMO's were superior in many ways, but those elements were specific and subtle--older MMO's were not better in EVERY way. But like the Mckids of this generation, you're unable understand what made them better, and what specific elements from those games would be GOOD additions to new games. And you groping at random ideas, hoping to recapture that experience is as bad for new MMO designs as the Mckid who is saying he wants to hit buttons see sparkles and get loot in an hour--you're just at the opposite end of the spectrum. (IE GIVE ME WHAT I THINK I WANT, instead of what actually might make the world better.)

Swagdaddy_sl said:

Also you went back and created a false excuse for the neg because you were mad I shit on your Stephen King like novel post, pathetic.

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Are you STILL crying about negs? Wash the sand out of your vagina Nancy, take a midol and get the fuck over it.

It was exactly a year ago in December when I stumbled upon a SMedy video and gave red99 a shot. Prior to that I hadn't played an MMO in years. I am afraid I have come full circle bro. I think I am going to put the keyboard away on games for a bit. I am not satisfied with the options available to me. I got a problem with every game these days. TBH man what I really would like to do is development. I've always wanted to develop games but don't have the background for it. Maybe it's time I accept my destiny and start learning this programming shit. There are 10 year olds Modding games, I don't see why I can't do the same. I would love to work on an eq pvp emu in particular, even if it were to never be anything other than a box some friends and I fuck around on, it would be more satisfying than the bullshit out there today.

Assumning I know nothing (I do know a thing or two about a thing or two,) how feasable would it be for me and a couple of guys to start work on our own pvp box? I don't want to have anything to do with Rogean so I am guessing using EQEmu as a starting point is out the window. Fuck just realized I have no idea where to start lol.

TLR I refuse to be a slave to this trade any longer. It is time to revolt and become the master.

Getting mad at WoW for ruining MMOs is like getting mad at the Ford Geo for ruining the car industry. There are people who like Ford Geos, can't afford a Lexis or want an F150 and I say good for them.

Dark Souls is a single player RPG that is very difficult, imo, to play. I'm sure pre-launch there were a lot of doubts as to Dark Soul's success, but it launched and it was successful. I don't see why a difficult MMO won't happen one day, if there is a market for it, it will happen.

Everyone wants something different. Some people want to go back to 1999 and play EQ. Some UO. Others want a return to vanilla WoW. Even if they did come out with a game that made 80% of this forum happy, there would be 20% that are unhappy.

The only solution I can see is one day MMOs will be so cheap and easy to make, everyone will have something tailored for them that they can enjoy.

This forum to a large extent comprises of a very specific group of people - those who were hardcore into mmos, (and hence would have joined foh forums back in eq's heyday), and now have generally grown up and no longer can commit to games in such a way. How many of you were 17 or 18 in '99 and are over 30 now? If you do +/- 3 years on either side of that you are probably talking about 90% of this forums members with join dates of 2004 or earlier.

Some of us have adjusted into the casual mmo lifestyle. For me, part of my burnout is, for the past 6-7 years or so, I just don't have time to game like I used to. Problem is, hardcore is the only way I know. I remember watching something on the news where some guy claiming to be a hardcore gamer said he played 35-40 hours a week, and i thought to myself- seriously? that would have been like a weekend for me.

I have tried - desperately tried - to get into various mmos for the past several years, but I am learning that if i'm not able to poopsock my way thru an mmo, doing and seeing everything first and generally beating the piss out of as many people around me as possible, there's just no fun in it for me. And I think that's part of the reason for more people than they realize on here as well. When I only have a few hours to relax, I'd much rather watch a good show, or play a good single player game with a good story, than jump on a shitty online game and do chores.

Lithose_sl said:

And "repetitive"...yes, because nothing was repetitive in older MMO's, killing the same Froglok 30000000000000 times to get through a hell level was a cornucopia of new experiences.

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Really, you can break any game down to that and say it's shit - you are not getting the point. It's like saying Monopoly is a bad board game because all you do is go round and round the same board all the time, how repetitive. It's the interaction with other people that makes the repetitive process somewhat different each time, and that's the point.

Killing a mob in WoW is exactly the same as the next because there are no outside interactions that can change that experience. If you can kill 1, you can kill 1000 no matter who goes past you or what they do, so you may as well be playing a single player game which is exactly what 90% of WoW has devolved into - a single player experience based on a server.

If there was a way of making the client un-hackable, you could play most of WoW offline and just connect for raids and heroics, that's how bad their massively multi player world has got.

I feel like there should just be a general level of increasing difficulty. Not just this brick wall that everyone hits, but not something that everyone can do. WoW did okay with the way heroics (raids) worked, I'll give them that. I understand that you spend a lot of time creating this content that you would like everyone to see, but throw in some extra shit aside from an enrage timer or an extra spell or two. The very few locked bosses that WoW has that you have to complete other parts of the raid first are a perfect example of what I would love in an endgame.

I miss world bosses too!

Fingz_sl said:

Getting mad at WoW for ruining MMOs is like getting mad at the Ford Geo for ruining the car industry. There are people who like Ford Geos, can't afford a Lexis or want an F150 and I say good for them.

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CAN'T PLEASE EVERYONE SO WHY TRY??????? This is easily the single worst analogy I've ever seen. Fuck off, idiot.

BubbySoup_sl said:

Really, you can break any game down to that and say it's shit - you are not getting the point. It's like saying Monopoly is a bad board game because all you do is go round and round the same board all the time, how repetitive. It's the interaction with other people that makes the repetitive process somewhat different each time, and that's the point.

Killing a mob in WoW is exactly the same as the next because there are no outside interactions that can change that experience. If you can kill 1, you can kill 1000 no matter who goes past you or what they do, so you may as well be playing a single player game which is exactly what 90% of WoW has devolved into - a single player experience based on a server.

If there was a way of making the client un-hackable, you could play most of WoW offline and just connect for raids and heroics, that's how bad their massively multi player world has got.

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You should probably read the whole post. I was mocking him for doing exactly what you said, my post was mostly satire. The irony that you chopped out a single line of the post, is pretty thick, lol. And WoW brought some good things to MMO's, deconstructing it because of a few facets is being myopic. Yes, a lot of what WoW did was destructive, I believe, but there were HUGE improvements over EQ as well.

You think knowing how to program is going to give you design decisions eh? Hope you are making it yourself.