What do you do?

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Vinen

God is dead
2,791
497
Got a 4% raise for the year. On the one hand it's a raise, on the other hand some dude that started after me got promoted (in another department, but same job title) despite starting after me. Kind of makes me consider looking elsewhere now, just hit my 3 year anniversary.
Have you spoken with your Manager about a Promotion? Are they aware of your career aspirations?
You could just have a shitty Manager who doesn't care to put in. People in other groups != same group as you.

And if EMC is anything like VMware. Promotion does not always mean raise lulz.
 

Noodleface

A Mod Real Quick
38,384
16,303
Nah he's a good boss and it's a good job. He knows I want to stay and has asked me to. I got fucked because I was in another department for a year that got evaporated when CI took off and the experience basically doesn't transfer.

Also not sure I can get paid this much anywhere else at my level.
 

Vinen

God is dead
2,791
497
Nah he's a good boss and it's a good job. He knows I want to stay and has asked me to. I got fucked because I was in another department for a year that got evaporated when CI took off and the experience basically doesn't transfer.

Also not sure I can get paid this much anywhere else at my level.
True. You don't work close enough to Boston.
 

McCheese

SW: Sean, CW: Crone, GW: Wizardhawk
6,922
4,327
They may have to do all these hoops simply to cover their ass legally
Yeah, it's local government so you're probably right. Still annoying, though. They actually called and checked my references after I made my last post, again, despite knowing me for 3 years.

Having worked in Government contracting for several years I've grown to hate the bullshit, inefficient policies and protocols that come with anything Government-related. My girlfriend works for the Government, and she got in trouble for going in to work early to finish some work that needed to be done that day. So fucking stupid.
 

Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
14,163
607
I'll have a hard time ever leaving my current employer. Segregated vacation (5 effective weeks off per year) from sick time (I have like 400 banked hours.) Matching 401k and "we just deposit money" 401k accounts which is effectively 9% more salary per year. 40 hour work week is uncommon and it is usually more like 35. On-site fitness center. On-site subsidized cafeteria (~$5 per meal.) Insanely good medical, dental, vision and all that. Beautiful campus with walking trails and multiple ponds which butts up to a wooded city park. I could switch elsewhere and make more money but my manager takes care of me. I've been here 7 years now. I've been promoted once and make ~35k more than when I first started. It isn't staggering "I'm going to rerolled and bragging about my money bags" amount but combined with my wife's income I never have to balance a checkbook or ever look at my bank account and spend pretty much freely within reason. I'm also friends with my manager and he's pushing hard for me to get another promotion next year as well.
 

Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
14,163
607
I've said it in the comp sci thread I'm aware I'm a bit different than most where I don't put a ton of value on money. I make enough that I don't need to worry about it. If I make more I'll just have nicer things. But if I need to make more by stressing myself out and constantly thinking about jumping ship for the sake of buying a Mercedes that will not increase my overall personal happiness. Sure you can negotiate some vacation but if your goal is to make more money so you can travel more but you only have 3 weeks of vacation a year are you really netting a positive in your actual real world happiness? Are you really happier driving a fancier car than an economy car? To me personally the only time I was ever really unhappy was when I had to save and tally my money to make sure I had enough to afford everything I actually needed (car, rent, student loans, groceries, dating) and now that I don't have to worry about any of that I don't see the point in trying to min/max my salary.

I could have also of convinced myself of all this because I'm lazy. But in my mind there is less to gain going from middle class to upper middle class to upper class. Sure having millions of dollars and a beach front house in Malibu would be a dream (ie: super upper class) but it is also somewhat unrealistic. So I'll just set my sights on being as happy as I realistically can be given my situation.
 

Borzak

Bronze Baron of the Realm
26,027
34,138
Like I said, comfort is a powerful force, and has value. But looking at the data, changing jobs is always the better move in terms of increasing your earning potential(and if you can't increase it, well, don't change!).

Employees Who Stay In Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less - Forbes

I find it's a good idea to think of changing jobs in the same way as compounding interest. You may switch jobs and only get a 10% better deal, but on your next change your baseline is now 10% better, and you're looking for another 10% on top of that(keeping in mind I'm using 10% as an arbitrary number, you can often negotiate higher, either 15-25% or 10% with more vacation, or equity, or whatever).

The downside as I said is you're increasing your risks of bad jobs, but on the upside you won't be at them too long either and can still trade up. If you left a company on very good terms, it's not even unusual to return to the same place several years later at a substantially greater salary than you would of had just from staying there, so you're also getting some value in trying out different employers and finding what you actually like.

Realistically most people don't execute well on this strategy because most people are risk adverse, but the best way to increase your value is to be risk seeking.

All that said, I don't harshly judge anyone who has a high value on comfort, knowing your needs and accepting them is an individual judgement call. I'm just saying that in terms of $, you can always do better, the soft-ceiling of earning potential for a reasonably competent person is in the tens of millions, if you're earning less than that, then you are leaving money on the table in the long-run.
I guess it depends on the industry. When I see a resume (and I'm doing the hiring) that somene changed jobs that often it goes in the trash immediately.

Guess it's different in an industry where you can hire someone to fill a hole and have them contribute pretty soon. It doesn't work that way in my field and 1 year or more is considered normal before you can fully contribute.

The last business I left the average term of employment was 19 years and the current one is just over 15.
 

Noodleface

A Mod Real Quick
38,384
16,303
Yeah I'll be terrible at the whole job-hopping thing. My company makes life fairly comfortable and there are quite a bit of perks (4 weeks paternal paid leave was awesome). I mean, maybe if I moved over to google it would be better, but fuck driving to Cambridge or wherever they are.
 

McCheese

SW: Sean, CW: Crone, GW: Wizardhawk
6,922
4,327
I've said it in the comp sci thread I'm aware I'm a bit different than most where I don't put a ton of value on money. I make enough that I don't need to worry about it. If I make more I'll just have nicer things. But if I need to make more by stressing myself out and constantly thinking about jumping ship for the sake of buying a Mercedes that will not increase my overall personal happiness. Sure you can negotiate some vacation but if your goal is to make more money so you can travel more but you only have 3 weeks of vacation a year are you really netting a positive in your actual real world happiness? Are you really happier driving a fancier car than an economy car? To me personally the only time I was ever really unhappy was when I had to save and tally my money to make sure I had enough to afford everything I actually needed (car, rent, student loans, groceries, dating) and now that I don't have to worry about any of that I don't see the point in trying to min/max my salary.

I could have also of convinced myself of all this because I'm lazy. But in my mind there is less to gain going from middle class to upper middle class to upper class. Sure having millions of dollars and a beach front house in Malibu would be a dream (ie: super upper class) but it is also somewhat unrealistic. So I'll just set my sights on being as happy as I realistically can be given my situation.
You're not alone. I think I have a similar philosophy as you. As long as I make enough money to live comfortably (what I consider comfort; everyone is different), I'm going to put more weight on job perks like the ones you mentioned and low stress living. There's nothing wrong with being a salary chaser, and I have some really close friends who do just that and live like a king and queen, but that really depends on specific personalities.

Right now I make pretty good money ($80 - $85k/year, and I live alone in a tiny apartment so I'm banking a ton of money each month), but it's extremely high stress, has few perks, and leaves me with almost no free time. The job I'm applying for and hoping to get only pays $50k, but it has tons of perks, is low stress, and is in a field I'm passionate about. That's a huge pay cut, but $50k is still more than I need to live at my current standard, and the low stress and chance to work in my beloved field is worth it imo.
 

Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
14,163
607
I guess it depends on the industry. When I see a resume (and I'm doing the hiring) that somene changed jobs that often it goes in the trash immediately.

Guess it's different in an industry where you can hire someone to fill a hole and have them contribute pretty soon. It doesn't work that way in my field and 1 year or more is considered normal before you can fully contribute.

The last business I left the average term of employment was 19 years and the current one is just over 15.
If you work as a software developer it isn't unheard of to not list every job you've ever held. Usually they care more about what you know and where your interests are in the field. During the interview they'll ask you things about where you learned and used the various skills you claim to have but calling out every job isn't always required. I've had to go through quite a few 4 page resumes because someone listed every job and I honestly don't care about their deprecated skillset from their job in 2000.
 

Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
14,163
607
Right now I make pretty good money ($80 - $85k/year, and I live alone in a tiny apartment so I'm banking a ton of money each month), but it's extremely high stress, has few perks, and leaves me with almost no free time. The job I'm applying for and hoping to get only pays $50k, but it has tons of perks, is low stress, and is in a field I'm passionate about. That's a huge pay cut, but $50k is still more than I need to live at my current standard, and the low stress and chance to work in my beloved field is worth it imo.
I know I have a mortgage and all that but 50k is what I started out at and 85k is what I make now and that extra 35k really, really helps my stress levels. I bought my house when I was single (my now-wife was moving in with me, though, but made less than me and we just made an arrangement on bills) and made I believe around 56k. Those were actually quite stressful times. I had to intentionally not buy some stuff I wanted or go to take-out dinners instead of sit-down to try and scrape together some cash to make sure the mortgage was paid without having to use much of my savings. It also didn't help I had to pay for a wedding at that time. But now I have so much cash left over and I'm so bad about knowing where to put it I slap another 1k against my principal every month. Knowing full well if I really had to save some money fast I could just stop doing that (in addition to the ~10k I keep in the bank at any given time.)

So basically what I'm saying is I'm not sure I'd really go back down to 50k region. But like you said you live by yourself in an apartment. When I lived by myself in the apartment 50k was more than enough to get me by. You also require less of an "oh shit" money buffer because if your furnace breaks you just call someone.
 

Vinen

God is dead
2,791
497
If you work as a software developer it isn't unheard of to not list every job you've ever held. Usually they care more about what you know and where your interests are in the field. During the interview they'll ask you things about where you learned and used the various skills you claim to have but calling out every job isn't always required. I've had to go through quite a few 4 page resumes because someone listed every job and I honestly don't care about their deprecated skillset from their job in 2000.
Honestly, as long as you are currently employeed and can explain any gaps in recent past (IE last 10 years or so) its fine. I would still list all jobs in the past 10 years but try and keep the resume to a single page. Multi-page resumes make me angry going into an interview as I do prod around them.

The problem comes when people have a 5 month gap, etc that they cannot explain. This usually leads to extra questioning and background Reference checks.

There are a LOT of terrible people in the Software Industry. If someone has a large gap they cannot explain then chances are they are one of these terrible people.
 

Picasso3

Silver Baronet of the Realm
11,333
5,323
If you end up working 10 or 20 hours a week less the 50k becomes a lot more appealing. I've had a similar debate as that's a similar disparity between private and public engineers
 

Vinen

God is dead
2,791
497
If you end up working 10 or 20 hours a week less the 50k becomes a lot more appealing. I've had a similar debate as that's a similar disparity between private and public engineers
Not really. Thats a giant chunk of change.

The more appealing part is working is a preferred industry.
 

Borzak

Bronze Baron of the Realm
26,027
34,138
Apparently I have no balls. Was forwarded a resume of someone to work with me but not over me. It looked interesting so I forwarded it to the president of the company. It had a lot of similar stuff to us and there's not a lot of it out there, not to mention he lived close by He got back to me about 5 minutes later and said the guy was fired from this company just a few months before I started here, so basically less than a year ago. He said I should contact him and ask him for some references to see who he put down.

Balls, that guy has them. I'm curious what would have happened if I just scheduled an interview and he came in since the president and VP of operations (my boss and the presidents son) sits it on every interview.
 

Borzak

Bronze Baron of the Realm
26,027
34,138
I bet it was a recruiter that screwed up.
Tenks now has more money to buy ugly jeans.
It came to us directly, we took out an ad in the San Antonio, Houston and Baton Rouge paper. The HR lady gave it to me. The ad ran over the weekend. From our ad anyone who ever worked here would know instantly it was us. Not to mention we are the only fabrication/industrial company in this entire town of 30,000.

I even put in a blurb about our current project, the only one in the country currently.

I'm calling him after lunch and ask for references.
 

Vinen

God is dead
2,791
497
It came to us directly, we took out an ad in the San Antonio, Houston and Baton Rouge paper. The HR lady gave it to me. The ad ran over the weekend. From our ad anyone who ever worked here would know instantly it was us. Not to mention we are the only fabrication/industrial company in this entire town of 30,000.

I even put in a blurb about our current project, the only one in the country currently.

I'm calling him after lunch and ask for references.
For the lulz