What do you do?

Damn dude. Well done.

Stories like that are why I'm keen to leave academic research at this point. I can honestly claim 10 years of experience now, so it feels like time to get out there and do something else with a better trajectory. I'm tired of chasing penny ante grants.

Heylel_sl said:

Damn dude. Well done.

Stories like that are why I'm keen to leave academic research at this point. I can honestly claim 10 years of experience now, so it feels like time to get out there and do something else with a better trajectory. I'm tired of chasing penny ante grants.

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I am super pumped and i'll be devastated if I do not get it. I feel kinda bad as the other managers that are applying have been with the company much longer than I have. I am a newbie in comparison to how long the others have been here. Heck, I was hired by one of the managers applying and we have a great relationship, but I am skeptical of how our relationship will be if I were to get it over her. I am one of the youngest managers in the whole company. Most other managers are in their late 30s or 40s (some being in their 50s), and I just turned 30.

The positive note is, I'll finally beat my woman in pay. She's an junior architect at a firm and makes more than me right now. If she ever becomes a senior member in the next 2 years or so (she is currently on-track), it'll be raining Borzak or Cad style in the household with our combined income.

Borzak_sl said:

I interviewed several people this week. Everything from clerical, someone to help our IT guy, engineering related etc...If I hear the phrase "I'm a hard worker" one more time. One guy got pissy when I said "Good, it's expected of you and if you're not - you're gone".

Apparently "I'm a hard worker" is now the phrase that people say when they don't have anything else to add to the conversation.

I don't think I've ever used that phrase in a professional setting.

Totally unrelated, but I've been looking at some job posting sites trying to get an idea of what other people are posting and possibly an idea of what we might have to offer to be competitive since our sector of the industry is very small. Anyway I looked at one posting and they had salary listed per hour. Who does that for professional type jobs? This one was listed at $135/hour. Just seemed incredibly odd not to exend it out to a yearly salary. I'm gonna guess most people in that pay range don't even know what they actually make an hour to begin with.

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I hear that alot as well. Apparently in the current job force and especially with the younger generation being a hard worker actually sets you apart as opposed to just showing up... the one I get the most is "I'm a quick learner" which pretty much just tells me "Id like you to pay me to learn but it's gonna be a while till I contribute." or whatever. That is fine if your entry level but I hear it from lead candidates and architects. And don't just leave it at that tell me what you learned recently and how/how long. Recruitment are pissing me off lately. Also since I'm ranting screw HR either help me or fuck off.

Funny I got mentioned when I don't believe I have ever mentioned how much I get paid. Everyone jumps to conclusions based on what I actually spend money on when I spend a fraction on what a lot here spend stuff on.

Congrats sounds like a great job with a great future.

When you have VP in your job title it's assumed you're making bank.

Lost Virtue_sl said:

I am super pumped and i'll be devastated if I do not get it. I feel kinda bad as the other managers that are applying have been with the company much longer than I have. I am a newbie in comparison to how long the others have been here. Heck, I was hired by one of the managers applying and we have a great relationship, but I am skeptical of how our relationship will be if I were to get it over her. I am one of the youngest managers in the whole company. Most other managers are in their late 30s or 40s (some being in their 50s), and I just turned 30.

The positive note is, I'll finally beat my woman in pay. She's an junior architect at a firm and makes more than me right now. If she ever becomes a senior member in the next 2 years or so (she is currently on-track), it'll be raining Borzak or Cad style in the household with our combined income.

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Interesting that you mention you were hired by another manager applying. I read an article this week on how at larger companies you have to get your managers permission to apply for an upgrade job in the company. That seems really odd to me, but I've never worked in a company that large.

Curious to what kind of benefits you recieve outside normal health insurance etc...at that type of pay scale? The problem we're having recruiting people recently has been lack of benefits even tho the pay is above average and the long term outlook for the job is fantastic. Company has one set of layoffs in the last 50 years. But our managers get lumped in benefits wise with the shop workers and they account for 90% of the company.

It's not something I normally throw into a normal face to face conversation with friends and salary etc...

Borzak_sl said:

Interesting that you mention you were hired by another manager applying. I read an article this week on how at larger companies you have to get your managers permission to apply for an upgrade job in the company. That seems really odd to me, but I've never worked in a company that large.

Curious to what kind of benefits you recieve outside normal health insurance etc...at that type of pay scale? The problem we're having recruiting people recently has been lack of benefits even tho the pay is above average and the long term outlook for the job is fantastic. Company has one set of layoffs in the last 50 years. But our managers get lumped in benefits wise with the shop workers and they account for 90% of the company.

It's not something I normally throw into a normal face to face conversation with friends and salary etc...

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The manager hired me awhile back. I eventually became a manager of another team later on. So we are in the same position right now.

For the most part, the "higher-up" job benefits do not differ much. We get higher monetary benefits such as stock option grants (equity-sharing), higher bonus percentages, and higher yearly raises (percentage-wise) We will have access to our company's private travel advisers (we get tickets generally 20% less than most cheap ticket places). We also get that 1-week fully-paid vacation to pretty much anywhere (first-class plane tickets and hotel/accommodations included; I believe this is valid up to a family of 5?). The 'cafeteria' will be free also (basically an open-style fridge with stocked meals or you can do call-ahead if you want something special; everyone in the company gets free snacks, just not free meals).

Basically, very minor additional benefits in the long run as the company as-is provides great benefits that span from the call-center folks all the way to the top. Our employee benefit package is pretty large, so not a lot more can be gained (within reason).

We give a decent bonus that hovers around 20% of gross pay each year. However we have a very small match for the 401k that tops out at 1k since we also would have to match 150 guys in the shop which would get expensive in a hurry if they all contributed. We're a small company with less 185 people and are privately held so no stock options.

We don't have a travel advisor. I book my own flights as do the other project managers and put it on our company cards and get a reimbursement for it.

The one perk I get you really can't advertise in a job offering since it's on a "as need/available basis". Twice (including this weekend) I have got personal use of the owner's (of the parent company) private jet to visit my parents out of state. But basically it's as needed or he happens to be going that way.

I actually took less pay than they wanted to give me with the understanding I had more freedom to take off and other such stuff such as 4 weeks of vacation if "needed". The understanding that if I get drawn for some hunt tags that I've put in for 20 years in a row, I get 2-4 weeks off to pursue them. Something most people aren't interested in.

We only have 30 people in the office and a few are part time, so no cafeteria lol.

Trying to think outside the box.

Anyway that sounds like a good deal all around on your end.

I like it, but it doesn't have the job security of a lot of government jobs. We're on an upswing now doing carbon capture projects for coal fired power plants to meet new regulations. I've noticed over 20+ years a lot of people look for a more defined and structered job. At times in a turnaround I've gone out and ran a grinder to get stuff done in time. Not something a lot of college grads want to do at any pay.

Anyway I'm just grasping at straws trying to deal with the business side and not the technical side which is my forte.

Our parents company and our sister company that does structural work (not plate) is a lot more corporate like. Our parent company has built a large percentage of the skyline on the west coast. From skyscrapers, stadiums, office buildings, airports etc...I was offered a job there but I would NOT fit into the bay area at all! at any pay rate.

I spent 15 years living in a town of 225 (300 on the sign if you went the other direction lol) and went to town about once a week.

Anyway thanks for all the replies, just trying to find out what is out there in the "real world" to put together a strategy. We're moving our office from Phoenix and most of the people there wound up there because the large company they worked for there that has offices all over the country went out of business.

I'm also a Government Drone (Federal). I work in an accounting area and just got my CPA license. I make decent money and I hit my 1 year in September which triggers an automatic promotion where I skip a full grade (I'll be making 11K a year more than I do today when that happens). I'm allowed to Telework two to four days a week and an 8 hour day means I actually leave after 8 hours. So the work / life balance is great. But I'm surrounded by extremely lazy people and there isn't enough work to go around. My last appraisal went extremely well and I raised the issue of not having enough work and my supervisor said "you're doing great here, don't worry about it."

I'm seriously considering switching back to private industry. I know the hours will be longer but I really need a challenge. I hate being bored at work and I feel really guilty. Even though the rest of our division is full of lazy people also not working. I volunteer for tasks where I can. One of the more interesting things I volunteered for was to do a site audit of equipment (laptops and such). I got to go around the whole building looking for the stuff and I'm not joking when I say that 80% of the people were on the internet or playing with their phones. It's just not a good atmosphere for me.

A lot of people are telling me "dude, you've got the life" but I'm not so sure.

Borzak_sl said:

Funny I got mentioned when I don't believe I have ever mentioned how much I get paid. Everyone jumps to conclusions based on what I actually spend money on when I spend a fraction on what a lot here spend stuff on.

Congrats sounds like a great job with a great future.

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You have mentioned plenty of times what guys in your field make with just a high school diploma starting out. You don't have to be an Internet detective to deduce that you make good money.

I worked for the federal government for a short period in college. I couldn't stand it. At that time they had no limit on the amount of comp time you could accumulate. A lot of the people I worked with went out west each year to manage the fire fighting for the US Forest Service and accumulated it a greater rate. That was their whole goal in life to accumulate comp time. Many had multi thousands of hours.

Eyashusa_sl said:

You have mentioned plenty of times what guys in your field make with just a high school diploma starting out. You don't have to be an Internet detective to deduce that you make good money.

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I have two guys who work under me that make more than I do. I only know of one person with a college degree, one of the other VP's here. The other two don't have one as well. It's not like being VP of a major fortune 500 company. It's more about having perks and not being part of a giant corporation.

I work as a project manager which is more what I do, the VP was thrown in so I could make more decisions in regards to moving one of our offices and hiring to replace those since nobody here had the technical knowledge to hire their replacements.

The president of the company lives right down the road. He just remolded his house, it's a $200k before his remodel and I think he said he spent $35k on the remodel.

a_skeleton_03_sl said:

This x100 is my life. Not enough work to go around and lazy people that don't care about it. Just smile and collect your paycheck is the party line and that's not good enough for me.

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I was in a position like this for a few years at a big telecom. Hated it only way I could make it through was movies on my phone. I work way harder now and more hours but I love the work and am much more fulfilled. Plus I learn all the time as I do new challenges so I am also more marketable if I want to move on.

I'm not federal, I'm state, but I have the exact same problem. I'm fucking *bored*. It's at least partially my fault since I could use that time to pursue other research avenues, but the money isn't there like it used to be. Your average call for proposals gets as many submissions as a lot of job postings, and it's a crap shoot who gets funded. The only difference is instead of spending a day crafting a tailored resume, you've got a team spending a month or two writing a 75 page submission that might not even be read (and almost certainly not read fully).

I did some freelance work earlier in the year that paid more than triple my base rate at the university. I'm not expecting that kind of pay on every job, but it really woke me up to the fact that I have a skillset industry sorely needs. It's just a matter of positioning myself so that I can make that leap from academia to industry. I'm really sick of not feeling challenged.

edit: Got a question for folks who have dealt with companies that use in-house recruiters before. Is it appropriate for me to reach out to the recruiter directly? We don't have an equivalent position in academics, so I don't know the proper etiquette. I was given an internal recommendation by a fairly senior employee in another department, but the app process didn't give me the opportunity to provide a cover letter. I want to give myself every advantage I can.

Everyone I talk to about my problem have all told me the same thing "Dude, you've got the life!" They just don't get how boring it is. It's not fulfilling at all.

With that said there's a lot going for it. I'm closer to 40 than I am to 30 so the job security is really nice. I was laid off back in 2000 from a failing company. I got laid off again in 2012 because of "budget cuts" (it sucks having 8 years with a company and still being the least senior person on the team. Lesson learned there). Both times sucked hard and it took awhile to get back on my feet after each. So being in a job where it is almost impossible to be fired or laid off from is good for the peace of mind. And like I said, an 8 hour day is really an 8 hour day. In the last year I barely worked any overtime and half of what I did was by choice to accrue some "credit hours" to extend vacations. So the work / life balance is fantastic.

But as I've said. We just don't have enough to do. The Government basically says that this branch needs X number of people to operate. In Private Industry you would really need X plus 2 people to do the job. In Government you can easily get by with X minus 3... So I sit around bored as fuck for a good chunk of the week. I worked my ass off to get a masters degree in Accounting and then went on and worked my ass off even harder to become a licensed CPA. Both of those really aren't being utilized. Which is strange because our division has one of the largest concentrations of masters degrees and CPA licenses outside of an actual Accounting firm. Thankfully we are going into Audit Season where things will pick up a bit.

In the meantime though I'm strongly considering going back into the Private Industry. I already know that Public Accounting isn't where I want to be. It's a young man's game (mid 20's to early 30's) with upwards of 80 hour work weeks during the busy season. But a solid Private Industry job could work out well. Luckily since I have a job I can be really choosy and don't feel I need to apply everywhere. And if I go on an interview and don't like what I'm hearing I can tell them to piss off (in the most professional manner possible so as to not burn bridges). But the longer I stay in the Government, the harder it is going to be to get out I'm afraid.

Yeah, the government time has me sweating bullets. I've been in academia for 10 years, and am still 2 away from my pension vesting. Part of me wants to stay and see that through, but state work is by no means secure. Every July is a scramble to ensure that we're all covered 100%, and it's every man for himself. It gets really political and I'm just sick to death of it.