Wheel of Time
- Thread starter hodj
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Runnen
Vyemm Raider
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It seems that way, but it's not a big deal in my opinion. Mesaana is rather forgettable for the most part in the books, she's just hidden until she suddenly reveals herself and then goes out rather easily compared to some other memorable Forsaken foes. There's definitely some redundancy amidst the 13 Forsaken, so a little trimming or merging of characters is expected and honestly welcome in a TV series adaptation. I'm beginning to suspect they also won't have Asmodean, and he may instead be replaced by a gentled Ravhin (since I expect an epic confrontation with Sammael at the Stone of Tear at the end of the season). They might also merge Demandred with Mazrim Taim, as was planned by Jordan for a long time until he decided to split them into two characters.
In response to Goatface's post, while I'm sick to death of DEI and queer-pushing agendas in all sorts of media, I'd give a bit of a pass towards lesbian relationships in WoT (even if I prefer my lesbians to be hot personally). The books are filled with groups of women who see men as nothing but fools, and I personally got huge lesbo vibes from everything related to the Tower, or even the Seafolk mistresses, etc... mostly the Aiel wise ones seem a bit more "normal" because they're in open relationships (and in the show I guess they're bisexual). When I was reading the books, it seemed no different to girls-only schools or other forms of women-only communities where same sex relationships are rampant. At the very least WoT show seems to have kept almost all of the main heroes heterosexual (Rand, Mat, Perrin, Lan, Egwene, Nyaneve, but not Moiraine), which is honestly almost surprising in this day and age.
Maksim the gay Warder almost admitting he only became an Aes Sedai Warder so he could bone Ivhon was super cringe however. While the books gave serious lesbian vibes as I said for many characters, I don't seem to recall examples of any gay relationships in WoT.. except probably in Graendal's palace but that's basically 24/7 kinkfests. Aran'gar can count maybe if you consider he is a male soul in a female body but even then the books mention (s)he swings both ways so it's debatable.
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So, just finished re-reading the books (again). And, watched some (skipped a bit) of the show.
With that in mind. Book 14, which I just finished. I had forgotten a bit about that.
Every book (except perhaps 8-9-10) has somewhat of a buildup to a fight/action towards the end of the book. With minor fights included, maybe 100? pages of 600-800 pages are "action". Increasing more in 11-13, where there is more and more.
However, book 14 is like 900 pages of the culmination of everything, every fight, plot point and character. Based on the descriptions in the book, it's like the LOTR battle of Rohan coming to the aid of Gondor being a minor skirmish out of dozens with added *single* fights sprinkled in. Action and magic everywhere.
It'd need the equivalent of a marvel movie budget per episode in CGI alone.
But going by the shows depiction of the characters, Falme and especially including the outright *lol* Rand stabbing of the forsaken and the heroes of the horn looking as stupid as the depiction of the horn itself. It's impossibly bad considering how detailed the original material is.
If the show doesn't get canceled I honestly think it might end up being one of the worst adaptations / depictions of a book ever made.
With that in mind. Book 14, which I just finished. I had forgotten a bit about that.
Every book (except perhaps 8-9-10) has somewhat of a buildup to a fight/action towards the end of the book. With minor fights included, maybe 100? pages of 600-800 pages are "action". Increasing more in 11-13, where there is more and more.
However, book 14 is like 900 pages of the culmination of everything, every fight, plot point and character. Based on the descriptions in the book, it's like the LOTR battle of Rohan coming to the aid of Gondor being a minor skirmish out of dozens with added *single* fights sprinkled in. Action and magic everywhere.
It'd need the equivalent of a marvel movie budget per episode in CGI alone.
But going by the shows depiction of the characters, Falme and especially including the outright *lol* Rand stabbing of the forsaken and the heroes of the horn looking as stupid as the depiction of the horn itself. It's impossibly bad considering how detailed the original material is.
If the show doesn't get canceled I honestly think it might end up being one of the worst adaptations / depictions of a book ever made.
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It is absolutely going to get cancelled before doing 14 books worth of content.
I will grudgingly admit that the Rhuidean episode was pretty good though.
Worst adaptation of a book is a hard ask in a universe where 'I am Legend' exists though, I think the title is safe for now ;p
Caliane
Avatar of War Slayer
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sure? the problem is first defining "worst". theres tons of completely terrible and forgettable adaptations. you have any idea how many animated snow white, cinderella, etc made for TV movies there are?
so is worst, just the actual literal worst? those win out over the more interesting if also terrible big budget versions such as these Disney ones.
however, is "Worst" defined by potential? those were never going to be good, made for tv budget by some shovelware publisher. This does tend to be the more used version. the "worst" is something you've heard of,something with a budget.
there is also just "bizarre bad", and "boring bad." the room/birddeminc/birdbox/twilight. shit that is horrible, but also hilarious in how horrible it is. not just boring.
And finally, theres "subversive worst". these are movies that are actually generally good or great movies themselves, but bad adaptations. starship troopers, the shining, the running man. omega man. the time machine remake. "in name only" is a variant here, but rarely the most damaging.
starship troopers might be the worst adaptation. Great, entertaining movie. even uses word for word quotes from the book. but.. a retarded director gaslit millions into thinking a liberal utopia is fascist because of uniforms and big red flags. this is actively damaging the legacy of the book. being boring, or just doing a bad job adapting is not as bad as actively subverting the message of the book.
the wheel of time here absolutely falls into that here.
so is worst, just the actual literal worst? those win out over the more interesting if also terrible big budget versions such as these Disney ones.
however, is "Worst" defined by potential? those were never going to be good, made for tv budget by some shovelware publisher. This does tend to be the more used version. the "worst" is something you've heard of,something with a budget.
there is also just "bizarre bad", and "boring bad." the room/birddeminc/birdbox/twilight. shit that is horrible, but also hilarious in how horrible it is. not just boring.
And finally, theres "subversive worst". these are movies that are actually generally good or great movies themselves, but bad adaptations. starship troopers, the shining, the running man. omega man. the time machine remake. "in name only" is a variant here, but rarely the most damaging.
starship troopers might be the worst adaptation. Great, entertaining movie. even uses word for word quotes from the book. but.. a retarded director gaslit millions into thinking a liberal utopia is fascist because of uniforms and big red flags. this is actively damaging the legacy of the book. being boring, or just doing a bad job adapting is not as bad as actively subverting the message of the book.
the wheel of time here absolutely falls into that here.
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Zindan
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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From the very few synopsis YouTube videos I happened to watch, this show is insulting with all the liberties it takes with the plot, with the characters, with its casting and with its set design/art direction (costumes). I wouldn't even describe any of those facets as being amateurish, just abysmal failures at every step. It is all so bad.
The Collam Daan / Sharom is the epitome of "could have been great", but they simply messed it up because the showrunners thought they could do a better job than Jordan. There is a zero chance that Lanfear would ever have been that friendly / open with an Aiel. They depict the Aiel as ragged looking field workers, which was never mentioned... and their Song wasn't some labor song like slaves would sing while picking cotton. The book just had a scene were Rand's ancestor bumps into some Citizens while running an errand (and thinking that today was the day Lanfear and Beidomon would open the Bore), the male Citizen reacts harshly towards the Aiel, but his wife restrains him fearing the Ogier would come after them for harming an Aiel. Then booom. So much better, imo, as it alludes to a LOT more.
I dunno if I should respect people who liked the books and watch this amount of shit or not, I know I cannot tolerate it.
The Collam Daan / Sharom is the epitome of "could have been great", but they simply messed it up because the showrunners thought they could do a better job than Jordan. There is a zero chance that Lanfear would ever have been that friendly / open with an Aiel. They depict the Aiel as ragged looking field workers, which was never mentioned... and their Song wasn't some labor song like slaves would sing while picking cotton. The book just had a scene were Rand's ancestor bumps into some Citizens while running an errand (and thinking that today was the day Lanfear and Beidomon would open the Bore), the male Citizen reacts harshly towards the Aiel, but his wife restrains him fearing the Ogier would come after them for harming an Aiel. Then booom. So much better, imo, as it alludes to a LOT more.
I dunno if I should respect people who liked the books and watch this amount of shit or not, I know I cannot tolerate it.
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They missed a few flashbacks but I can understand cutting them out for time constraints.
Not perfect, but still quite well done.