Wheel of Time

Rod-138

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That was a good one. I remember the books spoke of lost technological civilizations, but the visuals were still cool and effective until random black gayness was hamfisted into a scene.


The WoT book strengths were phenomenal payoff scenes. Epic duels, that chase of Rhavin after all of his friends were killed balefiring him into oblivion to erase his past 20 minutes, shit was cray, so yeah, all you have to do is make the show decent and stick to those big payoff scenes delivering and you have a decent show.

this episode finally did that
 

OU Ariakas

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I hope they lost hundreds of millions of dollars making this garbage. You people talking about an episode as being a banger are the actual problem. They have completely butchered the best parts of the books and you get excited by the one part that they got halfway right. Stop it, go watch something else. Strangle the life out of these writers/directors/actors that think they are doing something good by changing the things we love.
 
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Chinaman889

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I hope they lost hundreds of millions of dollars making this garbage. You people talking about an episode as being a banger are the actual problem. They have completely butchered the best parts of the books and you get excited by the one part that they got halfway right. Stop it, go watch something else. Strangle the life out of these writers/directors/actors that think they are doing something good by changing the things we love.
I'm just taking the Aiel Past as the lone highlight for this goddamn series.

Can't stand DEI Aveindha. Now when I go to the WoT wiki, I'm going to see her as the face of that character for the rest of my life.

Fuck.
 

Hoss

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aside from the unnecessary gay stuff.

But it does make sense in a way. That civilization was being destroyed, after all. Then they decided to follow the way of the leaf, the gayest philosophy ever. I guess that's why there were no more true aiel.

They made way too much out of the oath breakers and learning why we don't use a sword thing. I mean, that lesson can just be passed on. Any 6 year old can learn 'a sword is only for killing, a spear can also put meat in the pot'. It's a loophole! Like anal sex. They still cover their faces for combat so it sounds like the stories survived.

The oath breaker thing could have been lost, but why the fuck can't some people deal with the fact that the straights broke off from the low T way of the leaf faggotry a thousand years ago? The dude who was caught in the forest was at the first flashback showing the leafers.
 

Chinaman889

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But it does make sense in a way. That civilization was being destroyed, after all. Then they decided to follow the way of the leaf, the gayest philosophy ever. I guess that's why there were no more true aiel.

They made way too much out of the oath breakers and learning why we don't use a sword thing. I mean, that lesson can just be passed on. Any 6 year old can learn 'a sword is only for killing, a spear can also put meat in the pot'. It's a loophole! Like anal sex. They still cover their faces for combat so it sounds like the stories survived.

The oath breaker thing could have been lost, but why the fuck can't some people deal with the fact that the straights broke off from the low T way of the leaf faggotry a thousand years ago? The dude who was caught in the forest was at the first flashback showing the leafers.
The way of the leaf was a pacifist way of life that all Aiel followed prior to the breaking of the world.

It was perfect in a peaceful world with no wars, rapes, murders etc.

Not surprised you throw the Aiel into the craziness of the breaking and you end up with some Aiel breaking their oaths and choosing violence. Them not wielding a sword is their way of hanging on to their pacifist beliefs.
 

Voldeth

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The show has shit on the source material but this season has actually been pretty good with this episode actually being great.
 

Daidraco

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The show has shit on the source material but this season has actually been pretty good with this episode actually being great.
Do the books go more into detail of the past? Like the science fiction part? That shit was like some weird, intriguing kind of timeline. Floating fucking death star up above, peasants harvesting down below. Then what was that? A tear in the veil? The veil to what? What was on the other side of that "thin" part or whatever tf they were talking about. The show has been watchable background noise, but that part of the time travel shit really got my attention.
 

Voldeth

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Do the books go more into detail of the past? Like the science fiction part? That shit was like some weird, intriguing kind of timeline. Floating fucking death star up above, peasants harvesting down below. Then what was that? A tear in the veil? The veil to what? What was on the other side of that "thin" part or whatever tf they were talking about. The show has been watchable background noise, but that part of the time travel shit really got my attention.
Yes, there is an incredible amount of additional detail that the TV audience is missing out on. As it relates to your questions, I'm responding in the context of the TV show as they've taken a lot of liberties but what you're effectively seeing is people discovering the Dark One's prison and, based on the dialogue with Lanfear, he is promising to bestow upon them the ability to channel if they open it up. Lewis Therin, who Lanfear references, is the dragon from that age and the most powerful channeler by far, the DO is effectively saying that if they set him free he'll make them equals to Lewis in channeling power. You're also supposed to get an understanding that shit was significantly better for a myriad of reasons, most prominently because the source isn't tainted and male's can channel freely / technology is more advanced, etc. For all intent's purposes, the channelers we've seen thus far are children compared to Aes Sedai from that time and part of the journey is going to be in discovering some of the weave's that have been lost, which includes shit like portal's for teleportation.
 
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Chinaman889

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Yes, there is an incredible amount of additional detail that the TV audience is missing out on. As it relates to your questions, I'm responding in the context of the TV show as they've taken a lot of liberties but what you're effectively seeing is people discovering the Dark One's prison and, based on the dialogue with Lanfear, he is promising to bestow upon them the ability to channel if they open it up. Lewis Therin, who Lanfear references, is the dragon from that age and the most powerful channeler by far, the DO is effectively saying that if they set him free he'll make them equals to Lewis in channeling power. You're also supposed to get an understanding that shit was significantly better for a myriad of reasons, most prominently because the source isn't tainted and male's can channel freely / technology is more advanced, etc. For all intent's purposes, the channelers we've seen thus far are children compared to Aes Sedai from that time and part of the journey is going to be in discovering some of the weave's that have been lost, which includes shit like portal's for teleportation.
Additionally, there are a few more important past scenes they cut out:

1.) How the Maidens of the Spear came to be.
2.) Explanation of why Aiel gave the Cahirien the tree sapling to fullfil an ancient oath.
3.) People talking about Lews Therin sealing the bore and hints male channelers beginning to go mad.

Additionally, there's incredible history spanning 3000 years that other shows can cover - such as the Trolloc wars (wouldn't it be badass covering it from Manetheran's point of view)?

I don't give a shit if they take liberties with the history since we only have a summary of those events with bits and pieces here and there.
 

OU Ariakas

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Additionally, there are a few more important past scenes they cut out:

1.) How the Maidens of the Spear came to be.
2.) Explanation of why Aiel gave the Cahirien the tree sapling to fullfil an ancient oath.
3.) People talking about Lews Therin sealing the bore and hints male channelers beginning to go mad.

Additionally, there's incredible history spanning 3000 years that other shows can cover - such as the Trolloc wars (wouldn't it be badass covering it from Manetheran's point of view)?

I don't give a shit if they take liberties with the history since we only have a summary of those events with bits and pieces here and there.

No it wouldn't. Think of who would be making these stories you are hoping to see televised. There will be no heroes, all girl-bosses, and no truly evil characters. Trollocs, specifically called out as being purely evil, will get the Rings of Power Orc treatment of 'unwilling slave to evil white male' backstory. Manetheran will be a diverse matriarchy. You do not want these people in charge of your favorite stories. Period.
 
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Chinaman889

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No it wouldn't. Think of who would be making these stories you are hoping to see televised. There will be no heroes, all girl-bosses, and no truly evil characters. Trollocs, specifically called out as being purely evil, will get the Rings of Power Orc treatment of 'unwilling slave to evil white male' backstory. Manetheran will be a diverse matriarchy. You do not want these people in charge of your favorite stories. Period.
If it's Amazon and their DEI shit I agree.

Maybe Netflix or the people doing the 40k show (with Cavil really wanting it to keep to lore) might do it DEI free.
 

Hoss

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Do the books go more into detail of the past? Like the science fiction part? That shit was like some weird, intriguing kind of timeline. Floating fucking death star up above, peasants harvesting down below. Then what was that? A tear in the veil? The veil to what? What was on the other side of that "thin" part or whatever tf they were talking about. The show has been watchable background noise, but that part of the time travel shit really got my attention.
This is the second time we've seen that world in the show. The veil was the dragon's prison. That Lanfear was the original lanfear. The witch who enchanted rhuedin mentioned that it was an aes sedai who led the charge to release the dragon and then took the name lanfear. If you recall, she told the ancestor guy that tomorrow everything would change, so she knew full well what she was about to do.
 
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OU Ariakas

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If it's Amazon and their DEI shit I agree.

Maybe Netflix or the people doing the 40k show (with Cavil really wanting it to keep to lore) might do it DEI free.

I hate to do this to you.

40k is Amazon, so expect that shit to be as woke as they can force Cavil to be. Games Workshop wants to be woke so badly it hurts, they just know it will kill their entire company. Them teaming with Amazon is an attempt to pass the woke-buck onto the company with more money than God in an attempt to change their core audience.

If you think Netflix is a good steward of fantasy then look no further than how they did exactly what I WoT did with the Witcher. Hell, they are the blueprint to your non-fleshed out history wish since they did a few pre-book Witcher series that were diverse, girl boss filled, and fucking awful.
 
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Palum

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I hate to do this to you.

40k is Amazon, so expect that shit to be as woke as they can force Cavil to be. Games Workshop wants to be woke so badly it hurts, they just know it will kill their entire company. Them teaming with Amazon is an attempt to pass the woke-buck onto the company with more money than God in an attempt to change their core audience.

If you think Netflix is a good steward of fantasy then look no further than how they did exactly what I WoT did with the Witcher. Hell, they are the blueprint to your non-fleshed out history wish since they did a few pre-book Witcher series that were diverse, girl boss filled, and fucking awful.

I 100% agree with this take. GW's current staff want to be woke but they don't know how to transition their audience since 98% of it is incompatible with where they want to be. My guess is that Amazon not having a good track record for media adaptations and wanting to eat the whole elephant in one go has them worried as GW has traditionally more often than not been very concerned with representation of its IP in licensing deals.

The only barrier is Amazon putting together a convincing plan, or comp/money questions. GW isn't Marvel so my guess is that Amazon lacks the talent to pull a 90s style 'subtle subversion' and keeps coming to them with ridiculous blue hair concepts that they are afraid to pull the trigger on. If GW's tabletop sales were collapsing they would have accepted the deal to keep afloat.
 
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Chinaman889

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I 100% agree with this take. GW's current staff want to be woke but they don't know how to transition their audience since 98% of it is incompatible with where they want to be. My guess is that Amazon not having a good track record for media adaptations and wanting to eat the whole elephant in one go has them worried as GW has traditionally more often than not been very concerned with representation of its IP in licensing deals.

The only barrier is Amazon putting together a convincing plan, or comp/money questions. GW isn't Marvel so my guess is that Amazon lacks the talent to pull a 90s style 'subtle subversion' and keeps coming to them with ridiculous blue hair concepts that they are afraid to pull the trigger on. If GW's tabletop sales were collapsing they would have accepted the deal to keep afloat.
Goddamnit.

I guess we gotta take the best of the worst options.

I can tolerate different coloured people for characters, but make the main characters attractive/hot ffs.
 

Caliane

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netflix is ground zero for DEI/communist propaganda. they outright have quotas, and its in their mission statement.

Amazon is more like 50/50.
 

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Do the books go more into detail of the past? Like the science fiction part? That shit was like some weird, intriguing kind of timeline. Floating fucking death star up above, peasants harvesting down below. Then what was that? A tear in the veil? The veil to what? What was on the other side of that "thin" part or whatever tf they were talking about. The show has been watchable background noise, but that part of the time travel shit really got my attention.

The books go into more details, but overall you only learn very little about the Age of Legends and the ages even before that. It becomes clear as you read through the story that the world this story takes place in is our world in the far far future, the Age of Legends being our far future itself. Ancient lore that survived to the current era mention "giants fighting across the world, throwing spears of fire at one another", their names being "Merk" and "Rusk" or something, which references our age's Cold War (that might have ended differently in that spin of the Wheel).

The Age of Legends is an age of both technological and magical wonder, the Aes Sedai of the time have a mastery over weaving saidar, saidin, or both combined when working together, that can only be dreamed of by the Aes Sedai of the current era.

The floating sphere, known as the Sharom, for instance is not floating due to the One Power but with technology that uses magnetic fields. They could have used the One Power to do it, but went for science "because they could".

It is a laboratory for Mierin Sedai/future Lanfear and her colleagues to study the Pattern, which is basically the fabric of the universe. Through her experiments and studies, Mierin has discovered that this particular area is where the pattern is at its thinnest, and they have detected a "source of power" beyond. What they don't know yet is that that power is the Dark One's own, which exists in parallel to the male One Power (Saidin) and the female One Power (Saidar). The Dark One's power can be used by either sex and is known as the True Power (though it comes at a price, corrupting the body overtime).

What you see in the episode is the Aes Sedai "scientists" accidently rupturing the Pattern at that spot, effectively creating what will be known as "The Bore" which is a fissure into the Dark One's prison, where He was imprisoned, supposedly for all time, by The Creator.

This begins an era called The Downfall where many Aes Sedai are seduced by the Dark One's promises of immortality and great power, and eventually to the War of Shadow which takes place around 90 years after the accidental creation of The Bore.

At the end of the War of Shadow, the Dragon, Lews Therin Thelamon, takes a hundred male Aes Sedai, known as The Hundred Companions, to Shayol Ghul (the area where The Bore is) and attempts to seal the Dark One's prison again. It kind of works, but not entirely. The Dark One lashes back against the channelers and saidin, the male One Power, and corrupts it so it renders males mad when they channel (those become instantly insane, probably because they were channeling a lot at the time, or because they were so close to the impact).

The Chosen/Forsaken, the Dark One's strongest Aes Sedai lieutenants, are also imprisoned around The Bore, in a stasis. Some are closer to the surface and can actually barely interact with the world, while some are deeper and completely dormant. The prison's integrity is maintained by seals made of a virtually unbreakable material known as cuendillar.

The female Aes Sedai, led at the time by Latra (the one who ends up in Rhuidean creating the glass columns in the episode), refused to accompany the male Aes Sedai at Shayol Ghul, prefering other plans and a less direct approach.

The taint of saidin in turn leads to the Breaking of the World, where insane male Aes Sedai are rampant and wreaking havoc on entire countries, while the female Aes Sedai (those not corrupted) attempt to capture and gentle them or destroy them. The Dragon himself kills his family and household in his madness, and Ishamael (the Forsaken nearest to the surface and who can continue to interact with the world) briefly visits him to taunt him and gives him back his sanity so he can see what has has done. This leads to the Dragon's rage overwhelming him and effectively destroying him in a tremendous cataclysm that raises the tallest mountain in the world, Dragonmount, where Rand will be born millenia later to become the Dragon Reborn.
 
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Chinaman889

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The books go into more details, but overall you only learn very little about the Age of Legends and the ages even before that. It becomes clear as you read through the story that the world this story takes place in is our world in the far far future, the Age of Legends being our far future itself. Ancient lore that survived to the current era mention "giants fighting across the world, throwing spears of fire at one another", their names being "Merk" and "Rusk" or something, which references our age's Cold War (that might have ended differently in that spin of the Wheel).

The Age of Legends is an age of both technological and magical wonder, the Aes Sedai of the time have a mastery over weaving saidar, saidin, or both combined when working together, that can only be dreamed of by the Aes Sedai of the current era.

The floating sphere, known as the Sharom, for instance is not floating due to the One Power but with technology that uses magnetic fields. They could have used the One Power to do it, but went for science "because they could".

It is a laboratory for Mierin Sedai/future Lanfear and her colleagues to study the Pattern, which is basically the fabric of the universe. Through her experiments and studies, Mierin has discovered that this particular area is where the pattern is at its thinnest, and they have detected a "source of power" beyond. What they don't know yet is that that power is the Dark One's own, which exists in parallel to the male One Power (Saidin) and the female One Power (Saidar). The Dark One's power can be used by either sex and is known as the True Power (though it comes at a price, corrupting the body overtime).

What you see in the episode is the Aes Sedai "scientists" accidently rupturing the Pattern at that spot, effectively creating what will be known as "The Bore" which is a fissure into the Dark One's prison, where He was imprisoned, supposedly for all time, by The Creator.

This begins an era called The Downfall where many Aes Sedai are seduced by the Dark One's promises of immortality and great power, and eventually to the War of Shadow which takes place around 90 years after the accidental creation of The Bore.

At the end of the War of Shadow, the Dragon, Lews Therin Thelamon, takes a hundred male Aes Sedai, known as The Hundred Companions, to Shayol Ghul (the area where The Bore is) and attempts to seal the Dark One's prison again. It kind of works, but not entirely. The Dark One lashes back against the channelers and saidin, the male One Power, and corrupts it so it renders males mad when they channel (those become instantly insane, probably because they were channeling a lot at the time, or because they were so close to the impact).

The Chosen/Forsaken, the Dark One's strongest Aes Sedai lieutenants, are also imprisoned around The Bore, in a stasis. Some are closer to the surface and can actually barely interact with the world, while some are deeper and completely dormant. The prison's integrity is maintained by seals made of a virtually unbreakable material known as cuendillar.

The female Aes Sedai, led at the time by Latra (the one who ends up in Rhuidean creating the glass columns in the episode), refused to accompany the male Aes Sedai at Shayol Ghul, prefering other plans and a less direct approach.

The taint of saidin in turn leads to the Breaking of the World, where insane male Aes Sedai are rampant and wreaking havoc on entire countries, while the female Aes Sedai (those not corrupted) attempt to capture and gentle them or destroy them. The Dragon himself kills his family and household in his madness, and Ishamael (the Forsaken nearest to the surface and who can continue to interact with the world) briefly visits him to taunt him and gives him back his sanity so he can see what has has done. This leads to the Dragon's rage overwhelming him and effectively destroying him in a tremendous cataclysm that raises the tallest mountain in the world, Dragonmount, where Rand will be born millenia later to become the Dragon Reborn.
To add a bit more:

After the breaking, the bore itself is named Shayol Ghul and begins to spread the Dark One's corruption across the land, turning that area into the Blight (filled with Trollocs, Eyeless bad shit etc)

Approximately 1,000 years later humanity forms the Covenant of 10 Nations - Manetheren being one of the members. The covenant is formed as a mutual defense alliance in order to protect themselves from the Shadow and the ever encroaching Blight.

Manetheren is important as the nation is destroyed (along with several other nations - shattering the Covenant) but the descendants end up being the Two Rivers folks. Manetheran is important as they were a nation of steadfast allies rushing to other nations' help during the Trolloc wars to the point the Shadow purposely sent a massive army to wipe them out.

If the show doesn't ignore the Manetheren angle - it plays a huge part of the book series.
 
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Zindan

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Do the books go more into detail of the past? Like the science fiction part? That shit was like some weird, intriguing kind of timeline. Floating fucking death star up above, peasants harvesting down below. Then what was that? A tear in the veil? The veil to what? What was on the other side of that "thin" part or whatever tf they were talking about. The show has been watchable background noise, but that part of the time travel shit really got my attention.
They do, quite a bit. At the height of the "Age of Legends" the Aes Sedai (as a group) were able to use the Power to travel to alternate worlds, and create little pocket dimensions (the two craziest things mentioned). Society at that time was like a utopia, with violence being extremely rare, but people were still people, so you had some who wanted more power or knowledge, who were jealous of those who did have power, etc. Once the Bore was created, all the negative tendencies within a society began to grow until the War of Shadow started due to 13 (the Forsaken) of the strongest Aes Sedai started a rebellion.

Runnen Runnen mentions how the Bore was eventually sealed by male Aes Sedai using "Seals" made out of a material created by using both Saidin and Saidar, thought to be indestructible. I always found this aspect of the story to be really interesting:
I always thought that if the Seals would be destroyed, that the Taint on Saidin would be cleansed immediately as they allowed the Dark One to continually touch Saidin, so when Saidin was eventually cleansed without breaking the Seals by cycling it all through Shaidar Logroth, it felt kinda cheap, lol.

I wouldn't trust Amazon and the ppl they hire to do any justice to the history of the WoT world at all.
 

Chinaman889

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They do, quite a bit. At the height of the "Age of Legends" the Aes Sedai (as a group) were able to use the Power to travel to alternate worlds, and create little pocket dimensions (the two craziest things mentioned). Society at that time was like a utopia, with violence being extremely rare, but people were still people, so you had some who wanted more power or knowledge, who were jealous of those who did have power, etc. Once the Bore was created, all the negative tendencies within a society began to grow until the War of Shadow started due to 13 (the Forsaken) of the strongest Aes Sedai started a rebellion.

Runnen Runnen mentions how the Bore was eventually sealed by male Aes Sedai using "Seals" made out of a material created by using both Saidin and Saidar, thought to be indestructible. I always found this aspect of the story to be really interesting:
I always thought that if the Seals would be destroyed, that the Taint on Saidin would be cleansed immediately as they allowed the Dark One to continually touch Saidin, so when Saidin was eventually cleansed without breaking the Seals by cycling it all through Shaidar Logroth, it felt kinda cheap, lol.

I wouldn't trust Amazon and the ppl they hire to do any justice to the history of the WoT world at all.
I would argue that Amazon dumbs it down as a show down between:

Shadar Logoth vs Dark One - Shadar wins, Taint is gone, the end.