Why all the nerd rage against Vanguard
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Goonsquad Officer
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all i can see screech as any more is that image some one drew of him in the "screech porn" thread. I"m thinking more like a skinny person red in the face and screaming at their computer. maybe they talk with a lisp. definately hitting things on the desk.Jedite said:
Well it depends on what the general definition of beta is.Oloh said:
I got in on beta 2, and yes the game was playable but hardly so. However I knew IT WAS BETA, it is not release. The changes they made from beta 1 to beta 5 were huge, but again THEY WERE IN BETA, they didnt pull this shit when the game was released like some other games have, IT WAS BETA!!!
If your going to complain, complain about stuff in the actual game at release, not changes that were made DURING BETA, because again IT WAS BETA it was a period in which games change for better or worse, and the changes were for the better.
There are some problems with the game right now, but nothing that makes it unplayble, and nothing that takes away from the actual fun in the game.
Here are a few of the problems:
1. Still some slight mob warping, but fixed with simply moving a bit.
2. Elevator bug still existent in DE were if you come down the Elevator you could stop seeing ppl when they get off, but again simple 30second relog and everything back to normal.
3. Not being able to talk in group chat when invited(rare but can happen), simple leave and join the group again.
4. Some broken quests. Have encountered 2 of these, 1 is to kill Drell Blackhand were he spawns but you cant attack him. The other is in Three Rivers Village the continuation of the Choping hands one, were when you try to chop the hands in the 2nd quest it says the Saw you have is only compatible with the first quest.
IMO not huge stuff, just minor things here and there, that obviously will be fixed soon and that are not game breaking.
The last time I played my level 19 DE bard was the day before the beta ended.
It just wasn"t fun and I won"t be buying it anytime soon. The world was empty of creatures (hell anything really ), at least west of Khal it sure as hell was. Thank god I could run faster than the lower level horses were able to buy so I could at least get around at a decent pace. Combat wasn"t a total snooze fest as a bard (over powered class ftw) but whenever I tried any other class it was a complete struggle to stay awake in order to even get that class to level 10.
I played EQ from 1999 to mid 2004 and I really do not want to repeat that experience again. Vanguard seems to be trying to combine EQ with WoW and for me the combination doesn"t work, at all.
I had much more fun in EQ2 and would much rather play EQ2 than Vanguard. But I also would rather play WoW than EQ2 so guess what I am enjoying the hell out of right now? Yep, TBC. Great expansion, the best expansion so far of any MMO I"ve played.
It just wasn"t fun and I won"t be buying it anytime soon. The world was empty of creatures (hell anything really ), at least west of Khal it sure as hell was. Thank god I could run faster than the lower level horses were able to buy so I could at least get around at a decent pace. Combat wasn"t a total snooze fest as a bard (over powered class ftw) but whenever I tried any other class it was a complete struggle to stay awake in order to even get that class to level 10.
I played EQ from 1999 to mid 2004 and I really do not want to repeat that experience again. Vanguard seems to be trying to combine EQ with WoW and for me the combination doesn"t work, at all.
I had much more fun in EQ2 and would much rather play EQ2 than Vanguard. But I also would rather play WoW than EQ2 so guess what I am enjoying the hell out of right now? Yep, TBC. Great expansion, the best expansion so far of any MMO I"ve played.
What I want to know is... what about the people that DID NOT play EQ1 on day 1? How do they feel about this game? They don"t have some attachment to reliving those years... so their opinion on a modern MMO is as valid if not more so than "old school" players.Venjenz said:
If you take the first 10 levels of WoW and the first 10 levels of Vanguard, and ask the, lets say 7 million players for whom WoW was the first MMO they"ve played, which do you think most would prefer?
It"s not even a contest - the fit, finish, polish and fun of WoW is captivating the minute you begin playing. Vanguard, after you stutter around to get your bearings, you can go start slaughtering stiff looking mobs w/ flat grey textures.
And don"t say the games are two different beasts - the first 10 levels the games are identical in terms of goal and gameplay.
I know I know - "But Sigil wasn"t going for WoW numbers yadda yadda" - well, they"ve already admitted they"d be stupid not to copy some of WoWs features. The main problem is that to the majority of the players that come from WoW as their first MMO the exposure to Vanguard in the first hour kills it for them - this extrememly bad word of mouth isn"t exactly a good thing.
Anyway, I can safely say they are not getting any subscription money from me... I am not interested in taking steps backwards, just to get a warm and fuzzy about years past.
But the progression servers saved EQ!machineman said:
No, hang on - most of the playerbase quit when they realised that nostalgia < fun. I almost forgot that for a second there.
i started eq about 3 or 4 months after velious came out. i loved eq and i dont think any mmo will beat my experiences with that game. when i played vg i played in the final beta (5 i believe) and i played on kojan. i had a total blast and i wanted more of the game. there were only two problems: my computer, while decent, isnt up to par to some of the towers you guys have and right now it isnt a good time for me to play mmos.machineman said:
if i did have the time to play a mmo i would be picking vg over bc because it really does hook you
personally i felt much more into vg when i started the game. i paid attention to the story and what the quests actually said. in wow i remember just grinding as fast as i could my first night. not to mention even some of the newbie quests have tasks that ive never seen other mmos employ. they were little things, but they showed me the potential the game has.
you can say the same thing about people like me. after playing eq and wow i"ll say that any wow-like mmo will not be touched by me. especially after seeing something like vg out there. i dont need 7 million players in a game for it to be fun, i just need a decent population and vanguards 120k will do.
progression servers werent classic servers. i would have played it longer if they were actual classic servers. not to mention the eq devs still left in some of the items from the latest expansion (whichever expansion was out at summer 2006). when you can craft a ranged item that all/all can equip and has +20 stats to alot of things, it doesnt feel the same. i also remember how FS armor and weapons were dropping off decaying skeletons in newbie areas and there were new items in the FP sewers.Itzena said:
its also a bitch when you realize that power levellers with unlimited time, great computers for 12312312 boxing, and alot of members (FoH) is hellbent on breezing through the content as fast as they can to get some e-peen and quit the game right after.
they also didnt fix boats...
Rangoth
Blackwing Lair Raider
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This is 100% anecdotal, BUT I have a friend that I work with. Never even heard of an MMO until we started working together, caught me surfing forums, updating magelo etc. so we began to talk about it.machineman said:
Long story part skipped the point is he and I, along with a few other co-workers decided to play wow together. This was his first mmo ever, only online game I think he played before was Quake. At first he didn"t like it that much. I think it was too much to take in or something. He wanted to be king shit, specced wrong(all out dmg with no concept of group play etc). Which didnt affect anything until we starting hitting 50"s and 60. Hes my friend and my goal in WoW was never to be leet raider like EQ because I knew I couldnt do that anymore. So when we grouped I didn"t really give advice or tell him what to do, etc. I didn"t give a shit, we would joke in chat, etc and have a good time. Once we hit 60 however we were struggling in the instances, he started to get really frustrated, always dying(sp?) from pulling aggro, never healing(he was shm by the way but for the most part irrelevant)...he wanted to tank, nuke, be the best. He even downloaded those stupid mods that shout headshot and shit when you shit, all out not a strategic mmo player. Finally he got real annoyed and couldn"t take it anymore, wanted to quit.
I convinced him to give it another shot and that it would be better, so I started to lead the group, pull, give orders a bit etc. I"m sure hed say I was a little bit of a dick, but I was sick of dying all the time too. Now he"s one of those wanna be badass players /sigh(what did I create, shame on me) who rags on n00bs or whatever. Joined some "leet"(read as doing ok in BWL) guild. He loves wow. Fucking loves it. To the point where getting him to go out to a bar on Friday night is now difficult because he"ll bitch the whole night about missing DKP or something fucking lame. Days past I quit WoW(no disrespect just wasnt for me and with the last of my friends gone and no desire to raid 5 days a week, let"s face it, I didnt have shit to do but grind timbermaw).
In comes VG. I preech a bit about how it"s similiar to EQ, which I loved. Give the various reasons I think it"s different/better etc. I pitch the game. I get him to try it with me. And once again, the story is almost like it began all over. We made characters together one night, he was having all sorts of hardware problems(yea yea, we all know). Funny part is he has a better computer than me and I was fine. So Im convinced VG just has some fucking issues with certain configs or something. We made it to level 8 or so in a nights play, call it 4-5 hours after work. He gave me his comments and opinions, and from what he said I came to the conclusion that he was poorly influenced by me. For the 4-5 hours we played I was constantly explaining shit in group, sorta leading the way etc.. I told him to play to level 10 without me around, just like he did WoW for the first time.
He did. He didn"t like it. He may play with me 1-2 days a week because we are friends, but he will continue to be addicted to WoW.
HIS reasons were as follows, again this is from him to me, and then my wording so something may be lost in translation...
First off, overwhelmed. He said he made his character(orc) started on some boat burning down near an outpost and before he could even gather his UI and controls he was attacked and slaughtered. I of course laughed, but only because I"ve been there.
He also complained that every time he turned his screen went black(I doubt THAT happened but he probably had some grapghical shit he didnt want to deal with is the bottom line I gathered). He has 7900SLI setup, with maybe a AMD something, not sure, I can ask him. It should run fine since my lesser PC does and I read about others on this board doing fine, but whatever.
He whined about how it was too tough, and that"s almost exact wording. Said he had quests, but couldn"t even complete them without help, asked if he had to group for everything down the road. Funny part about that, is I actually see that as a benefit, I PREFER to group, hate playing solo, its boring. But clearly he only wants to group to do "leet dungeons". Not for his "down time soloing".
He DID like:
That when he did group with some guy he found, he said certain spells would light up when the other guy did something, or how he did more damage if he cast at a certain time. He said he likes the graphics when they weren"t killing his computer. He liked the unqiueness of his class.
Now, overall, I don"t think VG will be his game. Maybe over time those 1-2 days a week he plays just to hang out with me will become 3-4 etc...I don"t know. But atm, hes still addicted(badly too) to WoW.
Take that for what it"s worth.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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Having a ton of fun dispite bugs...Deris said:
Memo to Sigil -- I"m going to keep using /stuck to get out of the Tomb of Lord Tsang until you guys fix that amazingly buggy place. Ban me for exploiting if you will -- but after the first 3 or 4 relogs and reforms on a run I"m just not willing to do more. It"s tough to fight when your healers cant see your tanks and your tanks can"t see the mobs.
That being said for a really fun time in VG try co-ordinating your various classes burst melee pumpers. Jin Surge (monk burst) + Marshalling Cry or wtf its called (Paladin burst) + Y + Z = Epic and Legendary hits ftw. Its highly amusing to see the mob go from like 1/3 health to zero.
Edit: Just to be clear if VG is buggy then the Tomb is like concentrated essence of bugginess that is contained in a vial made of crystalline solid bugholding material.
i dont think he was making a theory. i think he wanted to see how the eq vets felt about vg to see if it is the second comingThornaster said:
Erronius
<WoW Guild Officer>
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The Iraq war was a shameless ploy by Blizzard to add millions of new potential players to the MMO market. They figured millions of angry, violent Iraqis would all go Horde in order to vent their rage and frustration by killing American-esque Alliance, and thus balance the population imbalance that Blizzard denies exists.Thornaster said:
And it was Furor who dropped the trapdoor out from under Saddam. True story.
Daelos
Guarding the guardians
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I prefer Vanguard"s first 10 levels to WoW"s first 10 levels - by far.machineman said:
Sure, I had fun in WoW, but I felt like I was moving my character around as if I was moving the nicely graphical cursor around in a spreadsheet. It was a game, (and not a bad game).
In Vanguard, I am attached to my characters from the first step. The world is massive and immersive (yes, that"s that word again), and I am a part of it. The textures arevividand the colours are sparkling, but in realistic shades that are actually found in nature.
So machineman, sorry, but there are people with different opinions than you.
Wrong. I played so many MMOs and in every good one, it came back. I just decided to give EVE a try like a week ago and guess what, the n00b sense of wonder was back again ~Lyrical said:
Oh yea and Vanguard > WoW, beside 1 thing: WoW is made with love, they had awesome worldbuilders. Vanguard looks fugly and they had no worldbuilder at all. And the VG engine sucks.
Faith
Useless lazy bastard.
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Well, I bought the game yesterday and have been fiddling around a bit now.
For the comparison for the first 10 levels, Im sorry, but I prefer escaping
as a slave and deliver some payback or attack a village just to realize "my"
empire sucks and atone for it. Makes me more attached to my character
from start.
For preformance, yeah, it simply blows. With 4gb mem, Dual Core E6400 and
a 7950 GX2 1 gig video RAM, I should run this shit smooth. As it is it takes
time to load up when you log in, then you have to wait around a bit while
random objects "pop up" around you, THEN wait a bit for the character to
start moving smoothly. Thats unacceptable. However I expect it to be dealt
with since they have made huge progress with tuning since beta.
Am I having fun? Well, Im not bored, but I cant honestly say "Fuck WOW!"
right now. Its an intresting game, and Ill play around with it a bit to make up
my mind.
For the comparison for the first 10 levels, Im sorry, but I prefer escaping
as a slave and deliver some payback or attack a village just to realize "my"
empire sucks and atone for it. Makes me more attached to my character
from start.
For preformance, yeah, it simply blows. With 4gb mem, Dual Core E6400 and
a 7950 GX2 1 gig video RAM, I should run this shit smooth. As it is it takes
time to load up when you log in, then you have to wait around a bit while
random objects "pop up" around you, THEN wait a bit for the character to
start moving smoothly. Thats unacceptable. However I expect it to be dealt
with since they have made huge progress with tuning since beta.
Am I having fun? Well, Im not bored, but I cant honestly say "Fuck WOW!"
right now. Its an intresting game, and Ill play around with it a bit to make up
my mind.
I"d like to take the time to emphasis something Nino has mentioned on the boards (not directly replying to anyone here).
Playing on Highest Performance, in my opinion, doesn"t devalue you"re graphic experiance. You can further tweak things from there also if you want to test with graphical adjustments. The game play is 10X more smooth, I don"t really ever lag, I always hold 30-50fps, pretty much anywhere unless i"m grouped. ATI X850. Less texturing, yeah, looks a little more bland, yeah - but it"s still quite scenic.
Playing on Highest Performance, in my opinion, doesn"t devalue you"re graphic experiance. You can further tweak things from there also if you want to test with graphical adjustments. The game play is 10X more smooth, I don"t really ever lag, I always hold 30-50fps, pretty much anywhere unless i"m grouped. ATI X850. Less texturing, yeah, looks a little more bland, yeah - but it"s still quite scenic.
For what it is worth I would like to say that I played my beta account for about 4 days back in June 2006 and was shocked how much the game sucked back then. It ran like shit and I had no fun at all.
Fast forward to yesterday when I got a 10-day trial key from a good friend of mine who kept on telling me how much fun the game is now. Just to humor him I accepted the key, patched up my old account and 7 hours of exploring the gnome starting city/area later, doing quests linked to adventuring, diplomacy and tradekills, I am having a blast.
I have to tone the visuals way down on my ancient PC, but somehow I end up with 18fps and a game that, so far, made me care about its lore and dialogues, which is the most important thing for me in a (MMO)RPG.
I will purchase the full game in 9 days, just to find out how much deeper the rabbit-hole goes.
Fast forward to yesterday when I got a 10-day trial key from a good friend of mine who kept on telling me how much fun the game is now. Just to humor him I accepted the key, patched up my old account and 7 hours of exploring the gnome starting city/area later, doing quests linked to adventuring, diplomacy and tradekills, I am having a blast.
I have to tone the visuals way down on my ancient PC, but somehow I end up with 18fps and a game that, so far, made me care about its lore and dialogues, which is the most important thing for me in a (MMO)RPG.
I will purchase the full game in 9 days, just to find out how much deeper the rabbit-hole goes.
This was incredibly annoying, I always wondered why whoever was directing marketing would allow Brad to do this. You"d get screenshots carefully given to fan-sites, then Brad would spam 10 screenshots clearly not fit for showing to players on this board. I am sure the man is good at what he does, but please keep him out of marketing. When Smed or Hartsman post they do it to either add a humorous quip, give a unique perspective, or to notify that they are adressing a bug, they have enough perspective to not try to continuosly sell their product.boy- said:
I want more developer interactions on this board, posts by developers that give background about design decisions or quests are amazing and very interesting, and I understand they cannot talk about certain things; but people trying to sell their game non-stop or spin marketing terms just piss people off.
Another thing by Starbright, and Eomer kinda hit on it as well that I agree with:
I never understood this phenomenom. Play a game, if you enjoy it, great, if you don"t, cool, just don"t bother with it. Why drag it out, yell, scream, accuse Nino of murdering your girlfriend by bludgeoning her to death with your kitty? I find Vanguard in its present form quite a good game, however, I am holding out for an item loot PvP server, since I am not interested in playing carebear mode.
Another detail about Vanguard hate. The Vanguard boards/beta boards were the biggest collection of retards/mouthbreathers that you could imagine. You"d see people with 5 colour signatures listing every character they had across 7 MMORPG, none at the level cap. The type of people you see cybering in goldshire on RP servers made up 85% of the testers, to the point where dialogue with devs on beta boards was impossible.
The developers of Vanguard were AMAZING, expecially if you managed to talk to them directly and discuss issues with them, but communication with them was only possible through batphone or the like, since any thread about gameplay would get hijacked by retards who wanted to talk about absolute generalities. You"d get idiots who"d go on about "magic" or atmosphere or any of those absolutely general and unhelpful feedback, refusing to give any specifics as to what their issues were.