Wildstar Launch Thread - Server: Stormtalon | Faction: Dominion

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Xaxius

Lord Nagafen Raider
531
147
Nothing about leveling in either game is challenging. Let's not get crazy here.
Of course not, because they are nothing but key presses on a keyboard and a few movement of a mouse. How hard is any of this stuff really anyway?
 

Flipmode

EQOA Refugee
2,093
312
Reading the forums are kinda fun. People starting posts with "I'm a MMO Veteran. I've been playing MMOs since WoW". And then hilarity ensues as people rip said poster to shreds on his veteran status. Those of you bored with leveling in Wildstar, take a break and read the forums.
 

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
11,219
2,365
By now if you're been playing mmos since vanilla wow, you're a veteran. Shit's like what, 10years old? I mean sure you have no experience with previous shit, but then again, pretty much everyone builds upon wow and the previous games became fairly irrelevant in most discussions. Using UO or EQ mechanics in a current gen mmo tends to be pretty useless other than saying "I liked it better when it was like that", because it's not coming back.
 

Xaxius

Lord Nagafen Raider
531
147
Yeah, this was a great post. Keep it up.
Just following your lead.
tongue.png
 

headspace

Lord Nagafen Raider
56
0
I downloaded the game last night. I couldn't make it past five minutes. I am not passing judgment on the game as a whole, but it did not pull me in at all.
 

Pasteton

Blackwing Lair Raider
2,734
1,923
Fights looked cool even despite the constant telegraphing bs which I will never understand why their dev team is so excited about. Just wish the graphical style was different. What really excited me was what the guy was saying - raids with 7 bosses, 14 minibosses? Sounds like a lot more raid content than most games nowadays
 

Selix

Lord Nagafen Raider
2,149
4
Ok here is my problem, Pyros + Draegan and whoever else has an issue with leveling (not just the tutorial) in this game. What kind of leveling experience do YOU want? Is this just a case of been there done that now everything is boring? Because maybe MMO gaming in general has just burned you out.

Wildstar leveling seems pretty standard fare to me. No it's not challenging but I can't exactly point to any other MMO and say it's leveling was challenging. GW2 leveling was certainly different and interesting so maybe you want to see more of that in Wildstar? Besides that and Archeage most other MMO leveling experiences feel like different toppings on the same ice cream to me.

I guess what I am getting at is sure we can bitch about not having the hard core challenging leveling experience we want till we are blue in the face but if that's what you are saying at some point you have to remember that game studios have to appeal to the masses to make profits because hardcore gamers are to few to justify a multi-million dollar game. Can they make a game that has both hardcore challenging and appeal to the masses content? Maybe. Who is going to throw millions of dollars of investment on the first attempt when no one has even figured how to baseline replicate WoW's success.

Does that mean we should stop talking about wanting a better MMO? No it doesn't. But we might need to be more articulate then
Remove one planet, remove half the quests, boost xp rewards for both mobs and quests(but especially for mobs), make the tutorial 1-2minutes,
Honestly this sounds like you would prefer to just log into the game and be given a max level character as though you just hate leveling period.
 

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
11,219
2,365
I touched on various aspects that would make it a lot better, considering the scope of what they want to make. Drop an entire large zone of leveling(snow zone for example, the one at 25ish). That time could have been used to add one more dungeon or adventure, if not more(not sure what takes longer, I would assume the zone with all the quests takes as long as 2 dungeons but I don't know). Do a quest pass on every hubs/zones in the game. Cut 20-25% of the quests, specifically collecting quests. Also adjust numbers on quests, shit that takes 15-20 of something shouldn't be there, make it 12 max. Adjust overall xp rates to compensate. Adjust kill xp to be higher in relative value to quest xp than it is, not like super high but enough to make grinding at least remotely viable(but still less efficient). Reduce TTK by 20-30%. Buff dungeon boss xp by a lot and/or give repeatable quest xp for completing dungeons. Dungeons should be worth more in xp/time assuming an efficient group than doing quests.

All these changes would simply make the leveling faster, while still retaining the quest theme park system. Nothing is really lost, you're only removing the boring filler quests anyway, and you get more group content by not wasting as much time(obviously now it's too late for that part, the time is already wasted). If your game focus is endgame, then leveling should facilitate getting to endgame, not delay it as much as possible. And don't give me the "you get to learn your class". You don't learn shit when you're soloing quests. Use dev time making group content instead of solo content, because that's what actually teaches people how to play their class for endgame.

And no it's not about removing leveling, even though that's a perfectly valid idea. The current way mmos questing is designed, it's like they design a zone that has say about 50quests worth of content, then they make 100quests in that zone. Make less quests, make the quests more rewarding, make it simpler. If you really want to have people collect bunch of iron scraps in the middle of their quests, make shared objectives: Quests requires you to kill 10mobs, collect 12scraps or a combination, progress is % based(like wildstar is) and both objectives complete a certain %. If you want to only kill shit you only kill shit, if you want to collect you collect. You don't need 2 quests for that, you don't need to force people to do both, it's up to them, result is the same anyway.

You also don't need to make sure as much time as possible is wasted doing menial tasks instead of the fun part of your game. Granted questing is fun to an extent, if done properly. When it's repetitive quests with basic objectives and no backstory/characters, who the fuck cares. It's like korean questing. There's a few fun quests in Wildstar too, they're just drowned in the amount of mediocre ones. If there were less mediocre ones, the good quests would shine more. You still need mediocre quests cause they're easy to make and easy to play, but they shouldn't be most of your leveling.
 

Caliane

Avatar of War Slayer
15,329
11,629
Honestly this sounds like you would prefer to just log into the game and be given a max level character as though you just hate leveling period.
There are too many quests though. at one point when playing a dominion scientist.
14 quests in my tracker. this game quest hubs like very few games ever before.

The path thing compounds it. It would be bad just with quests. but, its like the quest designers and path designers weren't talking. so instead, of 7 quests at a quest hub(which is bad enough by itself) you end up with 14.

you can't get involved or immersed when you are just inundated with so many. the interesting quests are drowned out by the stupid shit. and even if none of them are really bad individually, the raw volume still keeps you from making any connections.


looks like they are dev streaming again today.
Twitch
 

Selix

Lord Nagafen Raider
2,149
4
@Pyros
Shortening the leveling has the by byproduct of taking away content from the masses who basically pay for you to be able to enjoy the dungeons, veteran dungeons, raids, etc. that they will never be able to enjoy. While the leveling is boring to you it's fine to me and most other people (I think that's what theYanger was trying to say). Sure it's just more collecting bear asses and backstory I might or might not read/enjoy but it works for me we I want a mindless simple grind while watching GoT or something.

I can totally understand where you are coming from but since you can literally blow past this stuff in only a few days (which it sounds like you wouldn't enjoy regardless of how the leveling was created) then blow past it and beg for a auto level to max feature like WoW has after you have leveled up your first toon.

I don't think it will EVER be possible to create enough dungeon content to keep hardcores happy so cutting other content in the attempt just seems like a bad idea. All you end up doing is pissing off two groups instead of one who can't be satisfied.

There are too many quests though. at one point when playing a dominion scientist.
14 quests in my tracker. this game quest hubs like very few games ever before.

The path thing compounds it. It would be bad just with quests. but, its like the quest designers and path designers weren't talking. so instead, of 7 quests at a quest hub(which is bad enough by itself) you end up with 14.
Which I totally understand but is no different then WoW, SWTOR or any other MMO. You blow through these things all at once in the same area so they could just as well combine multiple quests and achieve the same effect. Doesn't bother me either way but I see what you are getting at. It's interface clutter which is especially annoying if you prefer a minimalist interface.
 

Flobee

Vyemm Raider
2,674
3,072
Stuff about leveling
I think the his main point is not that leveling in itself is bad, its that the method Carbine used for leveling is bad. I think most of us agree that the themepark approach is a bit played out so lets just let that be a given. Wildstar seems (To be fair, I made it to about level 12) to be shoving mindless work at you as its 'leveling' experience. You say that leveling is fine to most people, but I honestly think that most just ride out the whole leveling thing for the pot of gold at the end.

Leveling COULD be super fucking fun if done correctly, I think the argument most of us have is that Wildstar isn't doing it correctly. So the idea of cutting out 20-25% of the 'BS' and adding more content that people tend to enjoy makes a lot of sense.
 

Selix

Lord Nagafen Raider
2,149
4
I think the his main point is not that leveling in itself is bad, its that the method Carbine used for leveling is bad. I think most of us agree that the themepark approach is a bit played out so lets just let that be a given. Wildstar seems (To be fair, I made it to about level 12) to be shoving mindless work at you as its 'leveling' experience. You say that leveling is fine to most people, but I honestly think that most just ride out the whole leveling thing for the pot of gold at the end.

Leveling COULD be super fucking fun if done correctly, I think the argument most of us have is that Wildstar isn't doing it correctly. So the idea of cutting out 20-25% of the 'BS' and adding more content that people tend to enjoy makes a lot of sense.
I hear you and being honest I enjoyed the GW2 leveling style more then the standard Wildstar/WoW style so I can definitely see points for your argument. But the thing is what you and Pyros both said is really generalized (Cut x% content and create good stuff here) that really doesn't translate. What's better content? Collecting more bear asses is annoying but it's also a staple of every mmo from now till the end of time. It works. If I had to choose between more bear asses and standing in one zone killing the same mob for 3 hours then I'd gladly collect bear asses all day if for nothing else then variety but that's me. I can't stand grinding even when it's efficient grinding. I maxed every class in WoW but the only reputations I maxed were the ones that I could max along the way of something else. Reputation tabards were a godsend for me.

But that's ME. Not everyone else. Maybe petitioning WS for a series of grindable mobs to max (or at least till 17 so you can grind dungeons?) is what you need. Or just level to 17 and go dungeon forever?

I mean what is super fun leveling? Super fun leveling to me was WoW vanilla at launch when it worked but I didn't grind a single thing and hard is the last word I would associate with WoW questing.