Wildstar Launch Thread - Server: Stormtalon | Faction: Dominion

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spronk

spronk

FPS noob
23,483
27,453
popsicledeath_sl said:
I had totally forgotten about Wildstar, the hype, and my lasting all of 5 minutes into a beta login. I just didn't like the graphics, opening 'story' or feel of the game. Who knew it had so many problems?! :p

Do we even get surprised anymore? What's the last mmorpg to launch, build a niche, find success, if not at least begrudging respect? These big budget games are making Vanguard look like a success just for staying as a sub so long!
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ff14:arr and GW2 have both grown into pretty large and successful MMOs, making tons of money for their publishers and both have expansions this year, FF14 is even sub based.

SWTOR is profitable albeit no one ever seems to talk about it anymore, anywhere. Not sure whats up with stuff like Rift, aion, TERA, etc.

I suspect TESO is kind of muddling around but should sell really well when it releases for consoles in the summer as b2p, that will probably finally turn it into a nice money making machine. Ironic that PC gamers basically beta tested the game for console.
 
Miele

Miele

Lord Nagafen Raider
916
48
WS would be fun enough for me, not enough to pay a sub with all the free choices out there. If it goes f2p, I'll play it a bit more on and off, but fuck raids.
 
bixxby

bixxby

Molten Core Raider
2,750
47
Game just felt like warcraft with slow as fuck leveling and no soul. Combat seemed okay though.
 
I

ixian_sl

shitlord
272
0
spronk_sl said:
ff14:arr and GW2 have both grown into pretty large and successful MMOs, making tons of money for their publishers and both have expansions this year, FF14 is even sub based.

SWTOR is profitable albeit no one ever seems to talk about it anymore, anywhere. Not sure whats up with stuff like Rift, aion, TERA, etc.
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I think the thing with the games you mentioned is that they probably do decently given revised expectations, but the majority of the people who play them don't post on forums.
 
Xevy

Xevy

Log Wizard
8,954
4,219
This game proved they could make a game for the hardcore. And that is why it died. No one is hardcore anymore. The masses aren't good enough to attune for raids let alone complete them. Only true poopsockers (I made it!) made it to 40 man attunement. And then having 40 people on with good gear and actual skill online on a consistent basis was nearly impossible. Oh, and the boss fights change week to week.

Nerds wanted hard game. Hard game was too hard. Nerds self confidence destroyed. Hardcore nerds out of future MMO arguments.

Wildstar is the hero you needed, casuals.
 
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Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
It wasn't that it was too hard, it was that it was a shitty theme park, with shit combat, shit classes, and shit everything else.

What we did learn was that a good marketing team can sell shit to a bunch of nerds who like cartoons.
 
RobXIII

RobXIII

Urinal Cake Consumption King
<Gold Donor>
3,887
2,308
The only thing I remember during my trial, was the shitty 2nd zone (barrens like?), I had like 20 quests all scattered everywhere, none of them made sense. I lost my motivation and just never came back.
 
Xevy

Xevy

Log Wizard
8,954
4,219
Draegan_sl said:
It wasn't that it was too hard, it was that it was a shitty theme park, with shit combat, shit classes, and shit everything else.

What we did learn was that a good marketing team can sell shit to a bunch of nerds who like cartoons.
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Kinda, completely wrong, not really, half right.

I know the hardcore nerds won't be out of MMO arguments, but not you can point to WS and say "YOU HAD A SHOT" and leave it at that.
 
Rezz

Rezz

Mr. Poopybutthole
4,486
3,531
I thoroughly enjoyed the art style and the quests (being standard mmo quests with zero innovation, really) weren't bad for what they were. The settler path was kind of cool and it was fun building shit and getting buffs from just jogging around the map, and the encounters were neat. But they made a big mistake on tuning by having entry level dungeons be incredibly unforgiving compared to the content you normally do. The design your own floating island thing was neat, but when your standard group interaction content has people dropping routinely from dungeons because the mechanics are entirely new within the game and completely unforgiving, you tend to run into retention issues.

I think what was learned is that you can definitely make a game hard, but no game ever has been that retard tuned during introductory dungeons ever, and there's a good reason why. I say this as someone who had no issues with the mechanics, but I shouldn't need a premade group to beat the first dungeon in the game.
 
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Itzena_sl

shitlord
4,609
6
Xevy_sl said:
Kinda, completely wrong, not really, half right.

I know the hardcore nerds won't be out of MMO arguments, but not you can point to WS and say "YOU HAD A SHOT" and leave it at that.
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That didn't work with Vanguard either. Next new MMO and Tad10, Dumar, et al will be there with their usual "If it's not a clone of 99-era EQ it's not a real MMO" bollocks.
 
D

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
Xevy_sl said:
Kinda, completely wrong, not really, half right.

I know the hardcore nerds won't be out of MMO arguments, but not you can point to WS and say "YOU HAD A SHOT" and leave it at that.
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Well, every game of is going to have its fans. But the game was shit. The graphics were fine for what they were. But the combat was awful for most people. The class mechanics were tired and boring. I mean it was overall shitty.

Rift didn't scare that many people away with their harder content. Wildstar content was hard, but you not only had to fight the content, you had to fight the unintuitive combat system. Spamming builder keys while moving around and avoiding red and trying to predict where the green will be. You can't really watch the boss because you're staring at the ground the whole time.

It's just poor design.

You can make a hard game, dark souls and it's ilk prove that. You just have to make a game that is fun to fail in. Wildstar wasn't that game. It was hard content with boring as shit base content. It had some interesting systems (loved the housing stuff), but it wasn't enough to save the game.

This game would of been 100x better if they designed the game to skip the leveling process and design the whole game to be endgame.
 
iannis

iannis

Musty Nester
31,351
17,657
It also would have helped if it had run better. And if they'd patched stuff. And if they hadn't lied about...

well, Draegan has it covered. It was all around shit, really. Every here and there you could see a glimmer of someone tried to give a fuck and then their contract ended. A stunningly obvious display of outright mismanagement and trying to do it entirely on the cheap. I mean there are always corners that you can cut... but you have to know which ones you can't. I suspect that there was a very good reason Carbine was packed with EX blizzard devs and middle management.

I liked the housing too.
 
spronk

spronk

FPS noob
23,483
27,453
i bought the game for $15 at best buy and activated my 10 day trial, its kinda fun (for $15) but yeah i couldn't imagine paying a monthly sub for this. after an hour i'm bored and just quit.

its an overload of color in many ways, like goddamn everything is so ... bright

after just playing single player games / FPS now for 2 years its also weird to see so much text. every quest is just a massive text dump, i don't see how they thought kids today would be into that, at all.
 
Eidal

Eidal

Molten Core Raider
2,001
213
Well they initially marketed it to the hardcore PVE crowd that wanted ball-crushingly hard raids or some such. They quickly realized that this demographic doesn't keep the lights on.
 
A

Artifa

N00b
102
6
Draegan_sl said:
Well, every game of is going to have its fans. But the game was shit. The graphics were fine for what they were. But the combat was awful for most people. The class mechanics were tired and boring. I mean it was overall shitty.

Rift didn't scare that many people away with their harder content. Wildstar content was hard, but you not only had to fight the content, you had to fight the unintuitive combat system. Spamming builder keys while moving around and avoiding red and trying to predict where the green will be. You can't really watch the boss because you're staring at the ground the whole time.

It's just poor design.

You can make a hard game, dark souls and it's ilk prove that. You just have to make a game that is fun to fail in. Wildstar wasn't that game. It was hard content with boring as shit base content. It had some interesting systems (loved the housing stuff), but it wasn't enough to save the game.

This game would of been 100x better if they designed the game to skip the leveling process and design the whole game to be endgame.
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Spamming builders while moving is fixed by using the hold to continue cast combat option that has been there since launch, just wasn't on by default.

Carbine did some amazing things. The combat system is the best out there, the interrupt armor system makes interrupting dangerous abilities a group concern and not just "put a rogue on it lol." Telegraphs clearly show you where you can and can't stand, and where your attacks will hit. But you guys are not wrong. They didn't present the hold to continue casting and a myriad of other options to players. They fucked up a lot of ordinary things. Nothing new. MMO developers are so focused on coming up with the next big thing that they forget, the thing that will make their game have staying power in this industry is to do all of the little things right.

MMO players are fickle and when established game A and B do all the little things right, game C that comes along better have that. The QoL things that just nag at players. Just as an example, it has taken 6 months for Carbine to implement 2 hour trading of raid loot between players (in case of misloot).
 
Eidal

Eidal

Molten Core Raider
2,001
213
To be fair, interrupting in WoW isn't "put a rogue on it, lol" anymore. Honestly, I wouldn't even know where to begin with a list of things WS didn't do right. It's hard for me to nail down, but I had way more fun on my 5th return to WoW (lasted 3 months) than I ever did in any aspect of Wildstar. It may had gone differently if I had rolled with a pre-made in WS, but between the horrific experiences I had pugging and my shit-tastic class (Esper), I couldn't even muster up enough shits to give to go find an actual crew.

Compare/contrast WoW where they can lure you into the raid game with progressivly harder stuff until you're thinking: ("Hey this is pretty fun, it might be more fun if I joined a guild of like-minded people...")
 
Tearofsoul

Tearofsoul

Ancient MMO noob
1,791
1,257
Don't get me wrong, raid/group contents are excellent in Wildstar, combat is engaging. But the rest are just bad, from class desgin, optimization, questing, to "block you from raiding".

Hardcore my ass, what makes people quit wasn't the group content, wasn't the raid itself. It was camping world bosses, farm stupid faction, collect 300 tokens, RNG gear slot, boring dailies, optimization like really bad default addons, bad class balance like esper/spellslinger were closed to useless to raid/group no matter how good you are, thats like saying fuck you to 1/3 of its playerbase.

Again, hardcore my ass.
 
Stave

Stave

Potato del Grande
2,106
4,027
Yeah I have to agree with the sentiment that the combat was amazing. I installed an addon that let me bind my mouse buttons to attacks, and it was awesome as hell after that. I would say I probably even like it better than Tera's combat, due to no animation lock and smoother movement.

I can fault Wildstar for a lot of things, but I think combat is the one thing they nailed. It would have been perfect if they built in the mouse addon from the start.
 
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