Windows 8

Jysin

Jysin

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,286
4,053
Agraza_sl said:
Yea, not removing the older versions was pretty gay. Way to be special snowflakes there guys. Actually not so much, a lot of driver software still does that shit too. You know what your previous program installed. Why not clean it up when it's no longer in use? Java has annoyed me so often about versions in the past.
Click to expand...
Didn't know that. Sounds pretty damn annoying to be honest. Plus, if you still have the old versions installed it is a gaping security flaw in that malware could be used to target those older versions still lurking around your machines. *facepalm*
 
Alkorin

Chancellor Alkorin

Part-Time Sith
<Granularity Engineer>
6,029
5,915
A lot of things that used JRE 6 won't run on 7, or 8. Especially older software that hasn't kept up with the changing API and still uses an older security model. There are newer versions of 6 that are still being patched, but they are only available from Oracle with a service agreement in place, which is not cheap.
 
Frenzied Wombat

Frenzied Wombat

Potato del Grande
14,730
31,802
matsb84_sl said:
Oh really? We've had issues with going from 7 to 8, but I think that had more to do with IT staff installing newer versions of java manually rather than letting us update it via gp. What kind of issues have you run into? At least the newer versions of java actually started removing the older versions. I think that started in version 7 or at the end of 6 finally...so dumb.
Click to expand...

You mean besides it just being slow and needing to be patched on a weekly basis because of constant security vulnerabilities?

6 reasons to despise Java as an IT admin:

1) It's not backwards compatible. Some apps, including Oracle's own shitty apps (we use Oracle EBS), will only run on specific versions of Java. So you end up with 3-4 different patch exclusion groups to make sure certain machines don't get their client upgraded.
2) They don't give you any GPO's to configure settings network wide
3) The settings are stored in a config file, so you basically have to configure it network wide using file distribution, which was fine in 1995 but not exactly ideal now.
4) The new Java 8 only has high and very high security settings, so you must add sites to the exclusion list for many apps/websites, which basically generates a ton of helpdesk tickets and constant management of 3
5) Oracle's attitude has basically become "we know we can't secure our runtime for shit, so we'll just block everything by default and make you manage an exception list"
6) Fuck you and your ask.com toolbar opt-out. You're supposed to be one of the largest IT corporations on the planet, not some shitty shareware off tucows

Alkorin-- we have that exact scenario. Our Oracle EBS only runs a specific version of Java 6, and patching the front end to support Java 8 has been ongoing for over a month at a cost of $20K to Oracle consultants. It's a total scam. Oracle releases security flawed versions of Java, forcing you to upgrade their front end because their runtime isn't backwards compatible. It's an ongoing and constant money grab.
 
Alkorin

Chancellor Alkorin

Part-Time Sith
<Granularity Engineer>
6,029
5,915
Everything he said.

Also, sometime during the active development of JRE7, a change was made to a specific set of security routines that now actively blocks any JRE app that used a widely-used security API call. This means that if you want to run any of these apps (e.g. any older version of Brocade SwitchExplorer, for example), and you're using a newer version of JRE7 (or any version of JRE8), you are fucked. The app is auto-blocked and there is no way around that, short of using a known vulnerable version of JRE6 or JRE7, or getting the latest non-public JRE6/7 through an Oracle service agreement, or managing the aforementioned exceptions lists and actually forcing that specific app to use its own installed version of JRE, which is a major pain in the ass in and of itself.

In short, fuck them and the horse they rode in on.
 
Frenzied Wombat

Frenzied Wombat

Potato del Grande
14,730
31,802
Alkorin_sl said:
Everything he said.

Also, sometime during the active development of JRE7, a change was made to a specific set of security routines that now actively blocks any JRE app that used a widely-used security API call. This means that if you want to run any of these apps (e.g. any older version of Brocade SwitchExplorer, for example), and you're using a newer version of JRE7 (or any version of JRE8), you are fucked. The app is auto-blocked and there is no way around that, short of using a known vulnerable version of JRE6 or JRE7, or getting the latest non-public JRE6/7 through an Oracle service agreement, or managing the aforementioned exceptions lists and actually forcing that specific app to use its own installed version of JRE, which is a major pain in the ass in and of itself.

In short, fuck them and the horse they rode in on.
Click to expand...
Haha, yeah, we also have a desktop VM with a specific version of Java 6 installed JUST so we can use the Ilo console control on our HP g5-g6 servers. Nothing like having a non-responsive server and having to waste half your time fighting with stupid Java exceptions just so you can get to the desktop..

I'll also have to give an honorable mention to Adobe as well. They haven't yet achieved the murderous level of hate from me that Oracle has managed, but they're pretty close. They also suffer from constant security vulnerabilities and patching, but with each iteration Adobe Reader becomes a bigger and buggier bloated piece of trash. We probably get more tickets about Adobe Reader than any other piece of software --browser plug in stops working, adobe printer screwing up fonts, you name it..

1st place easily goes to AT&T though. If I could wish death upon any single company, AT&T would be it. If you think their consumer/mobile tech support and billing is incompetent, their corporate sales/support is even worse. Literally the most incompetent organization I have ever dealt with. If I sat brainstorming on how to contrive incompetence, I still couldn't match the level of retardation that just comes naturally to them. If you can manage to get a PRI installed in under six months, at the correct location, and it works, and your bill is accurate, then you are basically Jesus. We are actually in the process of initiating legal action against them for fraudulent billing practices..
 
Crone

Crone

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
9,709
3,211
Just hire me, to do all your dirty work, so you can sit back, feet up, and act like a real IT admin? Sweet, I'll start next week. Thanks bros!
wink.png
 
brekk

brekk

Dancing Dino Superstar
<Bronze Donator>
2,191
1,746
Frenzied Wombat_sl said:
1st place easily goes to AT&T though. If I could wish death upon any single company, AT&T would be it. If you think their consumer/mobile tech support and billing is incompetent, their corporate sales/support is even worse. Literally the most incompetent organization I have ever dealt with. If I sat brainstorming on how to contrive incompetence, I still couldn't match the level of retardation that just comes naturally to them. If you can manage to get a PRI installed in under six months, at the correct location, and it works, and your bill is accurate, then you are basically Jesus. We are actually in the process of initiating legal action against them for fraudulent billing practices..
Click to expand...
ATT is the bain of my existence.THREEtimes this year one of our customers called on a monday morning that hey have no internet, and no email. All three times we've gone onsite and called ATT to find out that over the weekend "someone" placed an order to assign new static IP settings. So our router stops working, vpn stops working, and email stops working. Oh and because the static was released we can't get it back so we have to manually update their outside email portal. (Edgewave) And wait for DNS to update for VPNs to work.

Oh and the customer is on a road with no option for Comcast without a big upfront charge.
 
Agraza

Agraza

Registered Hutt
6,890
521
Not quite the same level, but I wanted a place to put this.



They should sell the bear as a desk toy like a bobblehead or something. Tap it and it says stupid things like in the comic.
 
radditsu

radditsu

Silver Knight of the Realm
4,676
826
Frenzied Wombat_sl said:
You mean besides it just being slow and needing to be patched on a weekly basis because of constant security vulnerabilities?

6 reasons to despise Java as an IT admin:

1) It's not backwards compatible. Some apps, including Oracle's own shitty apps (we use Oracle EBS), will only run on specific versions of Java. So you end up with 3-4 different patch exclusion groups to make sure certain machines don't get their client upgraded.
2) They don't give you any GPO's to configure settings network wide
3) The settings are stored in a config file, so you basically have to configure it network wide using file distribution, which was fine in 1995 but not exactly ideal now.
4) The new Java 8 only has high and very high security settings, so you must add sites to the exclusion list for many apps/websites, which basically generates a ton of helpdesk tickets and constant management of 3
5) Oracle's attitude has basically become "we know we can't secure our runtime for shit, so we'll just block everything by default and make you manage an exception list"
6) Fuck you and your ask.com toolbar opt-out. You're supposed to be one of the largest IT corporations on the planet, not some shitty shareware off tucows

Alkorin-- we have that exact scenario. Our Oracle EBS only runs a specific version of Java 6, and patching the front end to support Java 8 has been ongoing for over a month at a cost of $20K to Oracle consultants. It's a total scam. Oracle releases security flawed versions of Java, forcing you to upgrade their front end because their runtime isn't backwards compatible. It's an ongoing and constant money grab.
Click to expand...
We have to manage two specific versions of Java 6 because ADP is the worst payroll time system in the universe, and the version of Java 6 they want causes terrible issues with our Financial Management software, which it is just two java 6 releases from each other. So we had to setup a 2x remote access server just to handle this issue with freaking java. THEN I need to publish a specific registry edit in GPO to turn off updates, because god forbid a user clicks the java update button that bugs the shit out of everyone, then nothing works because neither of them work at all with Java 7 on their PC. Oh also all of this is web based and since we are still running some XP machines (all gone by the end of the month i promise!) and some win 7 machines with multiple versions of internet explorer (uggh), we frequently get issues with java being blocked at the browser level and causing headaches. We spend about 500k a year between these two for this privilege. Then we have the state Dispatching software for our PD that uses an ancient version of java (iirc it needs an early, early 6), that's another monkey in the plan because they need to do all 3 things!

This should all clear up when we get completely uniform with the PC project I am pushing out and a band spanking new 2012 WSUS server....except for the java. I did, however, find some software that can push install Java properly, its just on my old PC and I need to find it!
 
Frenzied Wombat

Frenzied Wombat

Potato del Grande
14,730
31,802
xadion_sl said:
Just do service center yo! wsus...ppffftt...go big!
Click to expand...
You mean Service Manager or Configuration Manager? Both are fucking beasts, but at least the latter does a number of things. We looked at Service Manager as a helpdesk system replacement for TrackIT, but it turned out to be a glorified helpdesk system that literally needed three dedicated servers, SQL, reporting services, cubes, IIS etc.
 
radditsu

radditsu

Silver Knight of the Realm
4,676
826
xadion_sl said:
Just do service center yo! wsus...ppffftt...go big!
Click to expand...
Ehh man we dont have thousands upon thousands of computers. WSUS works fine.


Oh does anybody have a Surface Pro 3? I got one last week and I was wondering if there was a way to do proper scaling on its full resolution to a 1920x1080 monitor? I have to drop my surface screen to the same resolution to fix the fuzziness issue. Doing a ton of research it seems scaling is a big problem on the 8 platform.
 
Alkorin

Chancellor Alkorin

Part-Time Sith
<Granularity Engineer>
6,029
5,915
Whenever someone asks me why we went with SCCM "instead of" WSUS, I tell it like this:

Picture the average pizza delivery guy. He has a Ford Fiesta or something, and he drives around with one pizza at a time, delivering it the way everyone expects he would. Everything is working fine, deliveries are on time, the pizza's always hot like it should be, and everyone generally gets what they ordered. Or, at least, whatever went into the car with the delivery guy, anyway (back end issues aren't his fault).

All of a sudden, this one place starts ordering pizza, but not a single pizza at a time. They want 1000 pizzas at a time, and they want all of the pizzas to be different. But in the end, the pizzas are still all made of the same stuff, so the same delivery guy is forced to abandon his Fiesta, and he now delivers the pizzas in a Mack truck. Same pizzas, same ingredients, but 1000 of them at a time, and this is where the fun starts. Because it's just one guy loading all the pizzas into the truck, they're cold when he finally arrives, he has no idea where anything is in the truck, and it's anyone's guess as to who gets which pizza, whether they got what they wanted, whether all the pizza made it in to the truck in the first place or whether that really even is pizza in the box in the first place, because the delivery guy is so swamped dealing with the sheer volume of it all that he's forgotten what he was doing really well in the Fiesta in the first place.

That, my friends, is SCCM. Fuck that entire product as a patching mechanism. It manages to take WSUS and make it so overly complicated that you lose sight of the trees, and hopefully, you get what you want from the forest. Eventually.
 
radditsu

radditsu

Silver Knight of the Realm
4,676
826
With wsus i log in once a week and approve critical updates.... so much trouble. After doing the initial setup it is simple and easy.
 
Izo

Izo

Tranny Chaser
18,635
21,605
There is the right way, the wrong way and the max power way. And now I'm in the mood for pizza.
 
Alkorin

Chancellor Alkorin

Part-Time Sith
<Granularity Engineer>
6,029
5,915
Yep, WSUS is the way. It's simple and does its job well. Unless you wrap SCCM around it, anyway, at which point it becomes part of a hideous beast that has 5000 heads and pretends it's the Jesus of all solutions, when it's more like this:

100810_giant_swiss_army_knife_1.jpg
 
radditsu

radditsu

Silver Knight of the Realm
4,676
826
Alkorin_sl said:
Yep, WSUS is the way. It's simple and does its job well. Unless you wrap SCCM around it, anyway, at which point it becomes part of a hideous beast that has 5000 heads and pretends it's the Jesus of all solutions, when it's more like this:

100810_giant_swiss_army_knife_1.jpg
Click to expand...
That looks incredibly useful.
 
Siliconemelons

Siliconemelons

Avatar of War Slayer
10,998
15,479
Alkorin_sl said:
Yep, WSUS is the way. It's simple and does its job well. Unless you wrap SCCM around it, anyway, at which point it becomes part of a hideous beast that has 5000 heads and pretends it's the Jesus of all solutions, when it's more like this:

100810_giant_swiss_army_knife_1.jpg
Click to expand...
And then your a "real" MS house and anytime anyone in your entire organization THINKS about ANY type of software solution the answer is "No, order denied! SCCM does* it" = * can in theory, regardless of if your implementation even supported or thought of supporting that function!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.