Woodworking

  • Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!



    Go here and give us your nominations!
    Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Intrinsic

Intrinsic

Person of Whiteness
<Gold Donor>
15,265
13,656
Dandai said:
Matthias talked a bit about this in his most recent random stuff vid. The starting current spikes as high as 50 amps for that planer.

Here’s the video, but I only recommend watching if you find that stuff interesting:

Click to expand...


That's pretty good. I've actually never watched many Matthias videos even though I know of him and hear him referenced all the time.

Videos like that (and stuff like ElectroBoom) just remind me how much I've forgotten after getting my EE degree. I can follow it and it makes sense it just isn't second nature to me after almost 20 years of professional experience in niche areas. So I end up watching them and just going, "Man I'm an idiot!"
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
C

Captain Suave

Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
5,379
9,155
Intrinsic said:
I've actually never watched many Matthias videos even though I know of him and hear him referenced all the time.
Click to expand...

He's definitely a character, but his videos are great. No frills, just info, and he's invented some pretty cool stuff like the pantorouter. Someday when I'm not lazy I'll make his screw advance box joint jig.

Edit: As an aside, if anyone likes this kind of detailed engineering edutainment content I cannot recommend the channel Tech Ingredients enough. This guy is incredibly knowledgeable across a huge space of engineering and physics, does all his own high-grade practical designs and experiments, and is a fantastic teacher/presenter.

 
Last edited:
Dandai

Dandai

<WoW Guild Officer>
<Gold Donor>
5,918
4,504
The YouTube algorithm fed this to me today and I’m smarter for it. Turns out glueing end grain isn’t useless and is actually stronger than glueing side grain. He speculates that the reason why this myth became so popular and conventional wisdom is because often when we think of glueing end grain, we think of glueing the narrow ends of two boards together. This of course gives a big lever upon which you can exert sufficient force to cause failure. At the end he shows how strong end grain be side grain glue is in that situation. End grain wins easily because the lignin fails on the side grain with just his hands applying pressure.

 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
Dandai

Dandai

<WoW Guild Officer>
<Gold Donor>
5,918
4,504
Captain Suave said:
He's definitely a character, but his videos are great. No frills, just info, and he's invented some pretty cool stuff like the pantorouter. Someday when I'm not lazy I'll make his screw advance box joint jig.

Edit: As an aside, if anyone likes this kind of detailed engineering edutainment content I cannot recommend the channel Tech Ingredients enough. This guy is incredibly knowledgeable across a huge space of engineering and physics, does all his own high-grade practical designs and experiments, and is a fantastic teacher/presenter.

Click to expand...
Subscribed. Thanks. Looking forward to checking him out.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
C

Captain Suave

Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
5,379
9,155
Dandai said:
The YouTube algorithm fed this to me today and I’m smarter for it. Turns out glueing end grain isn’t useless and is actually stronger than glueing side grain. He speculates that the reason why this myth became so popular and conventional wisdom is because often when we think of glueing end grain, we think of glueing the narrow ends of two boards together. This of course gives a big lever upon which you can exert sufficient force to cause failure. At the end he shows how strong end grain be side grain glue is in that situation. End grain wins easily because the lignin fails on the side grain with just his hands applying pressure.

Click to expand...


This was an interesting one. The takeaway is that even end grain glue joints are stronger than side grain wood. (How strong? We can't know until we find a wood with lignin bonds stronger than PVA glue.) HOWEVER, this does not mean that joinery is useless, just that butt joints are sufficient when you would otherwise be happy with side grain. For example, if you made a square frame CNC'd out of solid wood and then subjected it to racking stresses, it would fail easily along the short lengths of long grain. The purpose of joinery is to put the wood in an orientation such that the fibers are experiencing compression/tension as much as possible, as opposed to shearing where the only strength is the lignin.

it's easy to look at those numbers and say "400 lbs for a butt joint! That's a lot!", but it really isn't. In a chair, for example, the length of the frame segments creates quite a lot of leverage and the joints will experience many multiples of the sitter's body weight. Those 4-6x values for mortises become important quickly.

Edit: It's worth noting that the popular wisdom for gluing was established before PVA glues were invented. Also, there's still research to be done on whether butt joints would fail prematurely due to the seasonal expansion of cross grain.
 
Last edited:
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
Dandai

Dandai

<WoW Guild Officer>
<Gold Donor>
5,918
4,504
Captain Suave said:
This was an interesting one. The takeaway is that even end grain glue joints are stronger than side grain wood. HOWEVER, this does not mean that joinery is useless, just that butt joints are sufficient when you would otherwise be happy with side grain. For example, if you made a square frame CNC'd out of solid wood and then subjected it to racking stresses, it would fail easily along the short lengths of long grain. The purpose of joinery is to put the wood in an orientation such that the fibers are experiencing compression as much as possible, as opposed to shearing where the only strength is the lignin.

it's easy to look at those numbers and say "400 lbs for a butt joint! That's a lot!", but it really isn't. In a chair, for example, the length of the frame segments creates quite a lot of leverage and the joints will experience many multiples of the sitter's body weight. Those 4-6x values for mortises become important quickly.
Click to expand...
Yeah I think the scope of the video was about debunking glueing end grain being pointless. As you’ve pointed out, while it may not be pointless, it’s clearly not superior to other joinery when you need strength.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
C

Captain Suave

Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
5,379
9,155
Dandai said:
Yeah I think the scope of the video was about debunking glueing end grain being pointless. As you’ve pointed out, while it may not be pointless, it’s clearly not superior to other joinery when you need strength.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Tons of people in the comments are taking the wrong lessons, though.
 
Intrinsic

Intrinsic

Person of Whiteness
<Gold Donor>
15,265
13,656
Hopefully most of the people that were quick to comment go back to their respective normal channels and see the response videos. Pretty sure the whole community is being blown up and everyone will be forced to come out with response videos pointing out everything y'all have already been going over (and reiterating what the original video showed already). Stumpy has one and Wood Whisperer has one now also.

*edit: hah there you go, Captain linked it while I was typing :)
 
whoo

whoo

<Silver Donator>
1,479
6,272
BrutulTM said:
Is it a lot of work to do the live edge/resin thing?
Click to expand...
Its can be, yes. First, the sheer volume of epoxy, especially deep pour crystal clear epoxy can be very expensive when you're doing 2"+ deep pours. Ive seen 10-11 gallons used at $80-100/gal for larger projects. You need to be careful and use very slow curing stuff (3-7 day) to prevent bubbles unless you have a countertop/table sized pressure chamber. Then it needs to be sanded to 1200 grit, then buff polished like an automotive paint job unless you're looking for a hazy look. And despite manufacturers claims, all resins yellow, at least somewhat. Give any pour 10 years and compare it to a new casting... Of course if you're coloring the resin, it will matter less.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users
whoo

whoo

<Silver Donator>
1,479
6,272
Bandwagon said:
What do you do for work, whoo whoo ?

Figured you were a GC or something, but I don't know any GCs that have ever fucked with resin.
Click to expand...

30 years ago I founded a security company with a friend (data, not physical). We worked hard and God has blessed us far more than we deserve. This allowed me the freedom to pursue certain areas of woodworking as a serious endeavor.

About 15 years ago I started making custom furniture and resoring antiques as a part time business. I am still a board member /advisor in the security business, but I am mostly retired from that work. I've been making /restoring furniture full time for years now. Although I do have a full shop of pro grade machines, my love (and specialty) is hand tools and 17th/18th century techniques.

Also, I just bought a sawmill, so I can harvest, mill, and use my own timber. I have more than a lifetime's supply of hardwoods on my property and I'm looking forward to working the whole supply chain, soup to nuts.

So, nope! Not a GC. Any comments I make outside of infosec/compliance/governance or woodworking are from a layman's perspective.
 
  • 3Like
  • 1Mother of God
Reactions: 3 users
Zapatta

Zapatta

Krugman's Fax Machine
<Gold Donor>
83,643
438,963
whoo said:
Its can be, yes. First, the sheer volume of epoxy, especially deep pour crystal clear epoxy can be very expensive when you're doing 2"+ deep pours. Ive seen 10-11 gallons used at $80-100/gal for larger projects. You need to be careful and use very slow curing stuff (3-7 day) to prevent bubbles unless you have a countertop/table sized pressure chamber. Then it needs to be sanded to 1200 grit, then buff polished like an automotive paint job unless you're looking for a hazy look. And despite manufacturers claims, all resins yellow, at least somewhat. Give any pour 10 years and compare it to a new casting... Of course if you're coloring the resin, it will matter less.
Click to expand...

Skip polishing, learn to apply a 'flash coat' of epoxy after you burn down your pours or if you are a pro spray a quick clear coat to bring it back to optical clear fast.

I sell a bunch of the clear casting epoxies to people, biggest problem is most folks arent particularly artistic, its really easy to make tacky trash. Folks with a gift can make amazing shit with the stuff.

Instead of trying to de-gas the entire part with a vaccum to avoid bubbles in your pour, just coat cut edges with a tiny batch to seal them and let it go off before you do your cast, stop them from 'leaking' / gassing. pros de-gas their batches before the pour but you shouldnt need to IF you let your mix settle a bit before you tip and you pour very slow from a good height and let the liquid creep out from one point slowly raising 'sea level' over as long a period as possible.
 
Last edited:
Dandai

Dandai

<WoW Guild Officer>
<Gold Donor>
5,918
4,504
Zapatta said:
Skip polishing, learn to apply a 'flash coat' of epoxy after you burn down your pours or if you are a pro spray a quick clear coat to bring it back to optical clear fast.

I sell a bunch of the clear casting epoxies to people, biggest problem is most folks arent particularly artistic, its really easy to make tacky trash. Folks with a gift can make amazing shit with the stuff.

Instead of trying to de-gas the entire part with a vaccum to avoid bubbles in your pour, just coat cut edges with a tiny batch to seal them and let it go off before you do your cast, stop them from 'leaking' / gassing. pros de-gas their batches before the pour but you shouldnt need to IF you let your mix settle a bit before you tip and you pour very slow from a good height and let the liquid creep out from one point slowly raising 'sea level' over as long a period as possible.
Click to expand...
I haven’t done any deep pours, but I’ve used a heat gun/blow torch for thin countertop pours. I’ve seen guys heat a screwdriver and poke bubbles in deep pours, but that seems impractical and not feasible if you’re pouring inches at a time across a tabletop sized area.
 
Intrinsic

Intrinsic

Person of Whiteness
<Gold Donor>
15,265
13,656
So after admitting that I had not watched much Mathias I will admit to watching almost every other video that comes up in my feed obsessively, directly related to my interests or a project or not.

I only mention any of this because this video popped up and it is honestly the 1st time I've heard a battery nailer. Was catching up on the forum and heard the noise and was like wtf... Was just funny. Also reminds me I need to make a small end table to match the cabinet I built. Need to take a picture of it after I finish the top up.

 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users
Intrinsic

Intrinsic

Person of Whiteness
<Gold Donor>
15,265
13,656
The last couple weekends I’ve been trying to finish up this planar sled. The original plans are from Woodsmith but I just followed a YouTube video (okay don’t know how to link it without embedding the whole thing).

It was a good project to get me back in to the swing of things after basically a year and a half of not doing much. Required router, different bits (straight, pattern), drill press (hole saw, forstner), table saw, jigsaw (now I want a band saw), planar, and different hardware. So gave me good exercise with a variety of different things. Most all of it was scrap except the 1/4” MDF for the sled and the t-nuts and bolts.

Functionally will need to test it out. I can already see just from assembling it that some of my tolerances are off. A little more sanding should bring it in line but need to do some testing. No idea what the long term usefulness will be but that leads in to my next sentence… Also need to spend a day just calibrating the planar and really learning the quirks and methods. After changing out the helical head I really didn’t put the time in to resetting and measuring anything, doing test passes on different woods

I have one more shop project to do which is a stand for the planar and hopefully have some time next weekend. Then I can do more functional stuff (or keep wasting time dinking with dust collection and organizing).

0D214D45-2E01-493E-ADBD-163DF08BDE8A.jpeg
 
  • 4Like
Reactions: 3 users
lurkingdirk

lurkingdirk

AssHat Taint
<Medals Crew>
48,019
225,046
Intrinsic said:
The last couple weekends I’ve been trying to finish up this planar sled. The original plans are from Woodsmith but I just followed a YouTube video (okay don’t know how to link it without embedding the whole thing).

It was a good project to get me back in to the swing of things after basically a year and a half of not doing much. Required router, different bits (straight, pattern), drill press (hole saw, forstner), table saw, jigsaw (now I want a band saw), planar, and different hardware. So gave me good exercise with a variety of different things. Most all of it was scrap except the 1/4” MDF for the sled and the t-nuts and bolts.

Functionally will need to test it out. I can already see just from assembling it that some of my tolerances are off. A little more sanding should bring it in line but need to do some testing. No idea what the long term usefulness will be but that leads in to my next sentence… Also need to spend a day just calibrating the planar and really learning the quirks and methods. After changing out the helical head I really didn’t put the time in to resetting and measuring anything, doing test passes on different woods

I have one more shop project to do which is a stand for the planar and hopefully have some time next weekend. Then I can do more functional stuff (or keep wasting time dinking with dust collection and organizing).

View attachment 375499
Click to expand...

I'm curious what the function of that sled is? Looks great, you clearly spent a lot of time on it, but what does it do?
 
Intrinsic

Intrinsic

Person of Whiteness
<Gold Donor>
15,265
13,656
lurkingdirk said:
I'm curious what the function of that sled is? Looks great, you clearly spent a lot of time on it, but what does it do?
Click to expand...

So, in theory, you have a perfectly flat sled base as a reference to feed through the planar. Each of the 6 blocks are height adjustable using the disk on the ends. So you put the warped piece on top and adjust the levels to provide a stable base to reference off the bottom of the sled.

It is an over complex way of using shims and double sided tape that would provide a very similar function.

I like that the sled I built can also be used as an infeed / outfeed by removing the leveling blocks or I can used just two levels if my piece is short. So it should be modular enough and serve multi purpose for how extra the thing was to put together.

Here’s the guy that I followed to put it together showing the operation.

 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
lurkingdirk

lurkingdirk

AssHat Taint
<Medals Crew>
48,019
225,046
Intrinsic said:
So, in theory, you have a perfectly flat sled base as a reference to feed through the planar. Each of the 6 blocks are height adjustable using the disk on the ends. So you put the warped piece on top and adjust the levels to provide a stable base to reference off the bottom of the sled.

It is an over complex way of using shims and double sided tape that would provide a very similar function.

I like that the sled I built can also be used as an infeed / outfeed by removing the leveling blocks or I can used just two levels if my piece is short. So it should be modular enough and serve multi purpose for how extra the thing was to put together.

Here’s the guy that I followed to put it together showing the operation.

Click to expand...


You guys need to stop showing me shit like this. I already have enough projects.

That's bloody cool.
 
  • 2Solidarity
Reactions: 1 users
You must log in or register to reply here.