World of Warcraft: Classic

Malakriss · Jun 3, 2019

Every boss in BWL went through 5 versions of tweaks/fixes minimum. Taunt didn't even work on drakes until a couple versions in and for one patch a taunt would have them spaz out and random turn to face whoever hit it (great for Shadowflames)

Although we did enjoy the ones where Ebonroc cast his debuff on the closest person and not the tank, or the tank could wear some shadow resist gear and not get the debuff, etc etc.

Torrid · Jun 3, 2019

Leadsalad said:
You out dps'd a bunch of people on a class that didn't have to worry about threat? "Aaaamaazin".... And what is this "adjusted my energy budget according to the situation"? This is some 65 iq level discussion with no facts here.

Rogues had to worry about threat before they popped vanish half way through. Also there were more rogues than just us two. Feint (a threat reduction skill, which requires energy) was used to reduce threat prior to vanishing.

BoozeCube · Jun 3, 2019

I remember Broodlord having some threat dumb so you had like 3-4 warriors fighting for threat as we tanked him in some corner. The BWL drakes I remember having some crazy ass AoE that we used to LOS but the exact mechanics escape me at the moment.

Quineloe · Jun 3, 2019

Torrid said:
Imagine if in EQ, all the wizards could just spam their primary nuke as much as they wanted. Fuck that. I stopped raiding before 1.11 so I guess I missed this nonsense. How disappointing

That is literally how it worked once you got conc pants in level 65 EQ

In level 50 EQ, Wizards were OOM after three Ice Comets. Four with good gear.

In level 60 EQ, it was lures, which did terrible DPS, but at least were consistent

In Level 60 EQ #2, that didn't really change. Unless you had Porlos Fury / Hsagra's Wrath

In level 60 EQ #3, finally draughts and other spells worked well enough.

Ossoi · Jun 3, 2019

This Naxx raid is really lolz, they're on patchwerk and can't keep the tanks up. One of the tanks is an undergeared feral, think they're prepping for a prot pally attempt

sadris · Jun 3, 2019

Ossoi said:
This Naxx raid is really lolz, they're on patchwerk and can't keep the tanks up. One of the tanks is an undergeared feral, think they're prepping for a prot pally attempt

How to beat patchwerk:

Look at logs, compute DPS he does.

Do that DPS*1.2 in HPS

If your remaining raid slots cannot DPS it before he berzerks, you cannot do the boss.

Leadsalad · Jun 3, 2019

Torrid said:
Rogues had to worry about threat before they popped vanish half way through. Also there were more rogues than just us two. Feint (a threat reduction skill, which requires energy) was used to reduce threat prior to vanishing.

Nobody uses feint, get the fuck out of here. You wait for the tank to get aggro, you put up SnD and wait for more aggro, you give the fight about a minute, vanish, and then you can go hard the rest of the fight and cruise to #1 dps.

As a mage, I fucking wanded half that fight because of the tank threat juggling. BWL was aids if you weren't a hunter or a rogue.

Chris · Jun 3, 2019

Ossoi said:
One thing that will be different in Classic is the current pvt server practice of getting DMT, Songflower, ZG and Onyxia buffs before raids, with Ony being on its original timer. But even then, Rogues also get the same buffs so that doesn't explain why fury warriors are best melee dps.

You are doing a lot of wanking yourself off over "new" private server knowledge but pretty much everything you are saying was known in vanilla.

Getting those buffs before raids was absolutely something we did for example.

mkopec · Jun 3, 2019

Chris said:
You are doing a lot of wanking yourself off over "new" private server knowledge but pretty much everything you are saying was known in vanilla.

Getting those buffs before raids was absolutely something we did for example.

Dude the kid was probably like 10 yrs old when vanilla was out. while we were slaying dragons and shit, he was slaying his mommas teet.

Because people were somehow stupid back then, yeah.

Granted we migh not have the resources we do now like youtube channels (although there was plenty of shit on youtube already in vanilla wow) and shit we still had all the packet sniffing item DB and quest web sites, and all that shit. From day one.

Not to mention that most of wows original population came from other mmorpgs at the time so they were already pretty much veterans of the genre and knew exactly WTF was happening. Seasoned veterans that played more hardcore mmorpgs like final fantasy, EQ, and all the other predecessors to wow. Shit liek threat, pulling, tanking, DPSing, CCing was figured out and perfected a half a decade before wow ever hit the scene. And those older mmorpgs did not have mods to track that shit and give you hints when bosses would perform certain attacks, threat meters, etc. Granted they were more simple tank and spanks mostly, but they also had 70+ cats to heard instead of 40.

a c i d.f l y · Jun 3, 2019

The 3 dragons were easy once they fixed the taunt issue. Which was week 2 or 3. Tanks just needed Onyxia Scale Cloaks, and enough Fire Resist that any stacking debuffs would roll off, or have a 3rd tank on standby -- which you should already have if you were doing Rag/Ony. It was all positioning and tank gear. Even on Chromag.

Firemaw positioning (correction: melee should move to offtank hiding spot):

Ebonroc positioning:

Flamegor you used a cubby up the ramp.

Chris · Jun 3, 2019

a c i d.f l y said:
The 3 dragons were easy once they fixed the taunt issue. Which was week 2 or 3. Tanks just needed Onyxia Scale Cloaks, and enough Fire Resist that any stacking debuffs would roll off, or have a 3rd tank on standby -- which you should already have if you were doing Rag/Ony. It was all positioning and tank gear. Even on Chromag.

Firemaw positioning (correction: melee should move to offtank hiding spot):
View attachment 210102

Ebonroc positioning:
View attachment 210101

Flamegor you used a cubby up the ramp.

Oh god BWL flashbacks.

Didn't you need some sort of cape to survive the shadowflame breath attacks? I forget how you made them.

I know for sure you did on Neferien but I feel like you could use them on one of the drakes too?

Adebisi · Jun 3, 2019

tranq shot rotations!

Lightning Lord Rule · Jun 3, 2019

a c i d.f l y said:
The 3 dragons were easy once they fixed the taunt issue. Which was week 2 or 3. Tanks just needed Onyxia Scale Cloaks, and enough Fire Resist that any stacking debuffs would roll off, or have a 3rd tank on standby -- which you should already have if you were doing Rag/Ony. It was all positioning and tank gear. Even on Chromag.

Firemaw positioning (correction: melee should move to offtank hiding spot):
View attachment 210102

Ebonroc positioning:
View attachment 210101

Flamegor you used a cubby up the ramp.

Ha! I just remembered our strat on Firemaw after he was fixed. That layout is pretty much what we did too, but the offtank would time his wing buffet and run in right behind him and taunt right before it went off. Firemaw turns and wing buffets (threat drop plus giant knockback) then the OT goes flying into the far wall and then the MT taunts back on him. Getting buffeted into the wall was great fun, lol.

a c i d.f l y · Jun 3, 2019

Chris said:
Oh god BWL flashbacks.

Didn't you need some sort of cape to survive the shadowflame breath attacks? I forget how you made them.

I know for sure you did on Neferien but I feel like you could use them on one of the drakes too?

Only the tanks needed cloaks for the drakes, and you crafted them using a Scale off Onyxia -- Onyxia only dropped one or two per kill (sometimes none at all!). Everyone needed them for Nefarian, so hopefully you have 20-30 weeks to farm them before BWL comes out. To get the pattern required Leatherworking, and the Head of Onyxia...

Ossoi · Jun 3, 2019

a c i d.f l y said:
Ebonroc positioning:
View attachment 210101

Flamegor you used a cubby up the ramp.

"strats will be the same"

Ebonroc/Flamegor are both tanked in the corner

Torrid · Jun 3, 2019

Quineloe said:
That is literally how it worked once you got conc pants in level 65 EQ

Wizard hate at 65 with pants is 2740 - 20% subtlety - 400 = 1792 hate per cast at ~5s cast times with max spell haste; add in pants cast time plus some latency you get ~8s between casts ~ 224 hate/s

Warrior (w/o augments) with BoW or Darkblade + EoE is going to do somewhere around 125-150 hate/s, average. Now factor in a melee range hate bonus of 2250 for raid targets. Pants aren't going to provide splat immunity until maybe Ykesha augments+CE and even then you're probably not nuking non-stop from the second the mob touches the tank. Pants prevented the insta-recast trick as well, so it was a drop in DPS. Lots of PoP bosses had deaggro abilities, so on some fights aggro management was still a concern even at the highest raid level.

a c i d.f l y · Jun 3, 2019

Adebisi said:
tranq shot rotations!

Forgot about that part with Flamegor.

a c i d.f l y · Jun 3, 2019

Ossoi said:
"strats will be the same"

Ebonroc/Flamegor are both tanked in the corner

The strat didn't change. And you can tank them both in the same corner, or any other cubby, it doesn't make any difference to the actual strat of the fight.

Noodleface · Jun 3, 2019

Torrid said:
Isn't this like, the entire challenge of being a DPS class? I always thought threat meters were cheating. (really should be called 'hate' instead of 'threat' though, as it makes more sense)

Managing threat is how DPS classes can outshine others. I recall one time for that dragon in BWL, I swapped from mage to my poorly geared (because I had retired it) rogue to help the raid. Since I was poorly geared, I just didn't bother reducing my DPS very much from spending my energy with the -threat ability. My DPS ended up at like #2 behind the top raid geared rogue using 5 man blues because I adjusted my energy budget according to the situation.

Imagine if in EQ, all the wizards could just spam their primary nuke as much as they wanted. Fuck that. I stopped raiding before 1.11 so I guess I missed this nonsense. How disappointing

Ok, so you're the guy stuck in the 1960s. Threat hasn't been a meaningful mechanic in MMO's since exactly patch 1.11. That's the last time I ever remember worrying about threat. In any game.

EQ had it's own thing. The game now is slamming as much DPS as possible. Tanks worry about threat with the other tanks, not DPS - certainly not healers. In fact, I've had instances in modern WoW where I did legitimately have to worry about the other tanks threat. Even FFXIV is big on threat... between the two tanks.

In this game, DPS worry about two things - doing DPS and not dying. Healers worry about two things - doing HPS and not dying. Tanks worry about two things - threat in relation to the other tanks and not dying.

Torrid · Jun 3, 2019

I wish developers would just create servers with differing mechanics similar to how they have servers with different PvP rulesets so people can just choose which mechanics they prefer

World of Warcraft: Classic

Golden Baronet of the Realm

Molten Core Raider

The Wokest

Ahn'Qiraj Raider

Potato del Grande

Karen

Cis-XYite-Nationalist

Potato del Grande

ಠ_ಠ

Potato del Grande

Clump of Cells

Il_Duce Lightning Lord Rule

Lightning Fast

ಠ_ಠ

Potato del Grande

Molten Core Raider

ಠ_ಠ

ಠ_ಠ

A Mod Real Quick

Molten Core Raider