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Quineloe

Quineloe

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,978
4,464
Even without any crits the sunder method actually defeats the mob. The HS method loses the fight. And yeah, overpower crits. because you're using HS, you have less chances of triggering overpower. So of course the SA method gets more crits.

Now make one on a nonelite NPC that dies in 3-4 hits
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The reason your mobs die in 3 hits is because you're fighting mobs bordering on grey with a weapon that is essentially epic at your level. Your WW Axe is ilevel 40. On BoE the required level for ilevel 40 stuff is level 35. You'll not be able to twink that kind of powerlevel with a blue weapon again.
 
xzi

xzi

Mouthbreather
7,526
6,763
Isn't HS only useful specifically if you're generating a huge amount of rage? The rage loss for damage gain seems very little. Sunder makes the most sense to me as it increases your overall whitehits / anyone in group ya?

Admittedly I don't know shit about warrior
 
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Chysamere

Chysamere

FF14 Free Company Master
<WoW Guild Officer>
3,496
3,206
Quineloe said:
Even without any crits the sunder method actually defeats the mob. The HS method loses the fight. And yeah, overpower crits. because you're using HS, you have less chances of triggering overpower. So of course the SA method gets more crits.


The reason your mobs die in 3 hits is because you're fighting mobs bordering on grey with a weapon that is essentially epic at your level. Your WW Axe is ilevel 40. On BoE the required level for ilevel 40 stuff is level 35. You'll not be able to twink that kind of powerlevel with a blue weapon again.
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In a few levels I'll be dumping my rage into mortal strike. The now levels are the only ones that matter.

Even level npcs die just as fast as the grey ones.

The video is cute but the scenario you've presented is irrelevant.
 
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a_skeleton_05

<Banned>
13,843
34,510
Chysamere said:
In a few levels I'll be dumping my rage into mortal strike. The now levels are the only ones that matter.

Even level npcs die just as fast as the grey ones.

The video is cute but the scenario you've presented is irrelevant.
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It's not irrelevant. The length of the sunder on the target, short lived or not is not an issue at all. What is an issue is HS starving your rage in return for a small amount of extra damage. That rage is better spent on sunder which also boosts your damage, but doesn't stop your next hit from gaining rage which will be useful on that target or the next.

HS is a noob trap.
 
Ossoi

Ossoi

Potato del Grande
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
17,849
8,777
WoWScrnShot_101219_151600.jpg
 
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Chysamere

Chysamere

FF14 Free Company Master
<WoW Guild Officer>
3,496
3,206
Chysamere said:
It's irrelevant because soon I'll be dumping my rage into mortal strike. The now levels are the only ones that matter.
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Dom said:
It's not irrelevant. The length of the sunder on the target, short lived or not is not an issue at all. What is an issue is HS starving your rage in return for a small amount of extra damage. That rage is better spent on sunder which also boosts your damage, but doesn't stop your next hit from gaining rage which will be useful on that target or the next.

HS is a noob trap.
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Charge gives me 18 rage and my first swing gives me another 10-20. That's more than enough for two heroic strikes to finish it off with rage left over and that's not even factoring in bloodrage.

I am literally running around with 100 rage the entire time. There is no rage starvation.

You guys keep parroting the same stuff and I swear you have never tried it. Sunder is useless when the target is dying in 8 seconds. I usually have to wait for charge to cool down for a few seconds before I can go to a new npc.
 
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a_skeleton_05

<Banned>
13,843
34,510
Chysamere said:
Charge gives me 18 rage and my first swing gives me another 10-20. That's more than enough for two heroic strikes to finish it off with rage left over and that's not even factoring in bloodrage.

I am literally running around with 100 rage the entire time. There is no rage starvation.

You guys keep parroting the same stuff and I swear you have never tried it. Sunder is useless when the target is dying in 8 seconds. I usually have to wait for charge to cool down for a few seconds before I can go to a new npc.
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I had a max level warrior in vanilla beta, 2 in vanilla release, one in TBC and one in wotlk. Trust me, I've tried it, and I'm not parroting a thing.

The constant 100 rage scenario you're talking about doesn't happen while leveling, especially when you're using HS as often as you claim to be.

I've had this argument with people many times over the years and each and every one of them just can't accept that the primary damage ability they were given at the start is the wrong thing to use the majority of the time. These are the same tanks that can't hold aggro because they have no rage because they can't keep their finger off the ability, or cleave, and wouldn't know the importance of switching stances if their life depended on it.

But you're made up your mind, so you do you.
 
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Chysamere

Chysamere

FF14 Free Company Master
<WoW Guild Officer>
3,496
3,206
Dom said:
I had a max level warrior in vanilla beta, 2 in vanilla release, one in TBC and one in wotlk. Trust me, I've tried it, and I'm not parroting a thing.

The constant 100 rage scenario you're talking about doesn't happen while leveling, especially when you're using HS as often as you claim to be.

I've had this argument with people many times over the years and each and every one of them just can't accept that the primary damage ability they were given at the start is the wrong thing to use the majority of the time. These are the same tanks that can't hold aggro because they have no rage because they can't keep their finger off the ability, or cleave, and wouldn't know the importance of switching stances if their life depended on it.

But you're made up your mind, so you do you.
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I assure you, the 100 rage scenario does happen, and did happen when Quineloe came out to observe what I was doing and prove me wrong, only to leave without saying anything because it was exactly as I had said and I was mowing down npcs without a care in the world.

Maybe you were doing it wrong all along? Or maybe you don't know as much about warrior leveling as you would like to think you do? Appeal to authority notwithstanding.

Of course you don't just spam heroic strike anytime you have the rage for it. You use it specifically when you have excess rage and when it will finish off a npc in less autoattacks.

It turns your white hit into a yellow hit, adds extra damage, and there's no reason not to do it if you have excess rage building up. A sunder on a mob that won't survive another 5 seconds is wrong. If you think this, you are wrong.

I appreciate your snide remarks though, gave me a chuckle.
 
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a_skeleton_05

<Banned>
13,843
34,510
Chysamere said:
I assure you, the 100 rage scenario does happen, and did happen when Quineloe came out to observe what I was doing and prove me wrong, only to leave without saying anything because it was exactly as I had said and I was mowing down npcs without a care in the world.

Maybe you were doing it wrong all along? Or maybe you don't know as much about warrior leveling as you would like to think you do? Appeal to authority notwithstanding.

Of course you don't just spam heroic strike anytime you have the rage for it. You use it specifically when you have excess rage and when it will finish off a npc in less autoattacks.

It turns your white hit into a yellow hit, adds extra damage, and there's no reason not to do it if you have excess rage building up. A sunder on a mob that won't survive another 5 seconds is wrong. If you think this, you are wrong.

I appreciate your snide remarks though, gave me a chuckle.
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Your math is all over the place. First, mobs are dying in 8 seconds, and you're spending all your rage on HS', but you're still always at 100 rage. But you don't always use HS, despite the mobs dying in 8 seconds and you've used 2? Which is it?

You keep using the time the target is going to be alive after the sunder like it matters at all, because you are not understanding the core reason why sunder is superior: The rage cost to increase the damage of your next white hit (or more) is a better rage:damage than the small amount of extra damage that HS does for twice the cost of sunder. (HS cost + no rage on next hit) and doesn't leave you short on rage for other abilities. You're still going to use HS, but it's not going to be until you're at 75ish rage, which will happen often because your rage generation will not be gimped.

And I wasn't being snide, so I don't know what you're talking about.

All warriors in their 30's with decent gear mow mobs down without a care in the world, but it doesn't mean that they could not be doing it even better by keeping their fingers off HS.
 
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Gavinmad

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
43,903
52,639
Faggotry like this is a great way to make sure I never get the itch to go back to WoW.
 
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Quineloe

Quineloe

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,978
4,464
yes I tried it, not only in the video, but in the first 30 levels. I didn't grind on mobs that were 1 level away from being grey, though.

You stated you could solo elites at your level last night as well, so I don't understand why suddenly my counter example is irrelevant
Chysamere said:
I assure you, the 100 rage scenario does happen, and did happen when Quineloe came out to observe what I was doing and prove me wrong, only to leave without saying anything because it was exactly as I had said and I was mowing down npcs without a care in the world.
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I left because you were level 33 and fought level 25 mobs. You could have straight up auto-attacked them without any abilities and easily won. You were using an ilevel 40 weapon to kill level 25 Galak Centaurs. I'm also only going so far to argue with guildmates. If you had been some random player arguing on /1, I would have let you die to that overpull you did at first and uploaded a video of that instead of my own ST test.
 
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Chysamere

Chysamere

FF14 Free Company Master
<WoW Guild Officer>
3,496
3,206
Quineloe said:
yes I tried it, not only in the video, but in the first 30 levels. I didn't grind on mobs that were 1 level away from being grey, though.

You stated you could solo elites at your level last night as well, so I don't understand why suddenly my counter example is irrelevant

I left because you were level 33 and fought level 25 mobs. You could have straight up auto-attacked them without any abilities and easily won. You were using an ilevel 40 weapon to kill level 25 Galak Centaurs. I'm also only going so far to argue with guildmates. If you had been some random player arguing on /1, I would have let you die to that overpull you did at first and uploaded a video of that instead of my own ST test.
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Works the same on level 30 mobs just fine. I did tell you I wasn't going to bandage like I usually did between pulls because you were there to save my resources.

Yes, I solo elite quests no problem without retaliation.

That's fine though, I'm content to let you guys be wrong and just keep doing what's working.

The funniest part is that I rarely use heroic strike anymore because it's far more efficient to just pull in groups or 2 or 3 and cleave them down.
 
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a_skeleton_05

<Banned>
13,843
34,510
Chysamere said:
Works the same on level 30 mobs just fine. I did tell you I wasn't going to bandage like I usually did between pulls because you were there to save my resources.

Yes, I solo elite quests no problem without retaliation.

That's fine though, I'm content to let you guys be wrong and just keep doing what's working.

The funniest part is that I rarely use heroic strike anymore because it's far more efficient to just pull in groups or 2 or 3 and cleave them down.
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You keep saying that we're wrong, completely ignoring that it's just basic math. Your anecdotal impressions of the experience that the most twinked out level/gear scenarios the game has to offer will not change the fundamental truth of how the two abilities work, and the costs involved.

Use what you want to use, but you're going to be corrected if you try to lead other people to believe something that is outright false.
 
Tarisk

Tarisk

Pathetic Reaction Bot
1,568
370
Dom said:
You keep saying that we're wrong, completely ignoring that it's just basic math. Your anecdotal impressions of the experience that the most twinked out level/gear scenarios the game has to offer will not change the fundamental truth of how the two abilities work, and the costs involved.

Use what you want to use, but you're going to be corrected if you try to lead other people to believe something that is outright false.
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Chys is the same person who argued that people who worked hours that didn't let them get ahead of the queue the first week were too casual to be in the guild. You're expecting a different person when it comes to this retarded warrior rage/damage topic?
 
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