World of Warcraft: Current Year

Listen, these people we're talking about clearing the raid the first week? These people do this for a living. This is all they do. But this is still a video game that almost everybody who plays it, plays for entertainment. Yet you are arguing that it's okay that shit should be tuned for professional raiders who do this as a job, and the rest of us, who play this game as entertainment, should have to understand that we are now playing a game meant for professionals if we want to Mythic raid.

Ridiculous. This is not an argument born from jealousy about not being good enough. This is an argument born from logic and reason considering this is a goddamn video game and not a profession (for 99.9% of the people who play)

Khane said:

Yet you are arguing that it's okay that shit should be tuned for professional raiders who do this as a job, and the rest of us, who play this game as entertainment, should have to understand that we are now playing a game meant for professionals if we want to Mythic raid.

Ridiculous. This is not an argument born from jealousy about not being good enough. This is an argument born from logic and reason considering this is a goddamn video game and not a profession (for 99.9% of the people who play)

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No. It's not tuned for them if they're beating it in 2-3 weeks. It's still tuned to everyone else who might/will actually clear Mythic in 4-5 months of progressing and gearing up through the content. Again, if a major component is the ability to actually adequately gear out an entire raid force in a week, then I think that is the main issue and not just them beating it in a week playing 16 hours a day for 7 days straight.

I don't think it's from jealousy at all, but the expectation shouldn't be that if your guild is half decent, you should be able to clear Mythic. If you're getting through Heroic...that's more than good enough for almost everyone. Or it should be in my opinion. Again maybe that's coming from someone who hated all the crying about people being unable to clear all of the content in Vanilla, or the whining about pre nerf fights way back when like Gruul, Muru, etc, etc go right down the list until they started making 3 and 4 different difficulty modes so that everyone could feel like they were still "completing" the content by beating Normal. Which is fine, I guess...but that shouldn't turn into okay it should be tuned so that most/many even decent guilds should get to clear Mythic by the end of the current patch cycle. They can always go back in later and clear Mythic a patch or two later.

Yet we get massive nerfs over and over down the line so the rest of us can finally clear it. And also this little thing called re-origination array in Uldir. And it still took the typical Mythic guild 3-4 months. But yea it's not tuned for them.

Yikes... okay bud. Carry on.

Khane said:

Yet we get massive nerfs over and over down the line so the rest of us can finally clear it. And also this little thing called re-origination array in Uldir. And it still took the typical Mythic guild 3-4 months. But yea it's not tuned for them.

Yikes... okay bud. Carry on.

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Sorry...I mean what else is the point of Normal or Heroic mode then? Is the model that most everyone should be able to clear Mythic, and the path to doing it is clearing the same dungeon on 3 different difficulty levels to progressively gear up? I just think that's silly if that's the expectation for most raiding guilds.

I'm not in favor of stuff like the er-origination array or any of the raids in the past when they've given a stacking 5% bonus as time goes by...but have to remember it's Blizzard, and while it would be great if they could tune the raid (or even individual fights) properly from the start, just extremely unlikely. Especially since they're probably fucking up class balance along the way, too.

Khane said:

Listen, these people we're talking about clearing the raid the first week? These people do this for a living. This is all they do. But this is still a video game that almost everybody who plays it, plays for entertainment. Yet you are arguing that it's okay that shit should be tuned for professional raiders who do this as a job, and the rest of us, who play this game as entertainment, should have to understand that we are now playing a game meant for professionals if we want to Mythic raid.

Ridiculous. This is not an argument born from jealousy about not being good enough. This is an argument born from logic and reason considering this is a goddamn video game and not a profession (for 99.9% of the people who play)

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I guess, just seems that the whole mythic tier was created for these crazy fucks and if they tone it down for guilds like yours, then suddenly the content isnt for them anymore.

They just can't create end all content that will satisfy cutting edge guilds and more casual guilds at the same time

BoozeCube said:

Design shit based on a reasonable difficulty for a fucking video game, not for the best of the best.

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LFR, Normal, and Heroic all exist. If you want Mythic to be designed so most people can clear it, Normal and Heroic should be removed entirely. Just have LFR and the difficulty designed for a good amount of people to clear within the patch life cycle.

And the more realistic analogy would be to not design Mythic based not around a Tiger Woods for MJ, but a pro not on that level to accomplish something in a fair amount of time. Woods and MJ would do it in far shorter time...but not to the point where they just walk out on the course/court and LOL their way through it day 1.

Kaige said:

These people also play the hell out of it weeks before official release on the PTR.

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They don't, that's why Blizzard tried to nerf split raids.

I don't hate (in principle) the idea of the last boss at mythic difficulty being tuned such that they go unkilled for a long time. Method and Limit are both item level 405 or so, Jaina is tuned hard at 415 and that's just how it is. No one is making you throw your face in the blender for sixteen hours a day on stream. That sort of thing would require clear communication from Blizzard regarding the difficulty and even then I think it would be inappropriate for anything other than the final boss of an expansion.

Ambiturner said:

I guess, just seems that the whole mythic tier was created for these crazy fucks and if they tone it down for guilds like yours, then suddenly the content isnt for them anymore.

They just can't create end all content that will satisfy cutting edge guilds and more casual guilds at the same time

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What I'm saying is, fuck the cutting edge guilds. Who cares about them?

Khane said:

What I'm saying is, fuck the cutting edge guilds. Who cares about them?

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I get this argument completely. But why is the idea of a not cutting edge guild being unable to clear the hardest mode possible akin to "fuck everyone who ISN'T a cutting edge guild"? If clearing Heroic is meaningless, get rid of the intermediary difficulty modes.

Merrith said:

LFR, Normal, and Heroic all exist. If you want Mythic to be designed so most people can clear it.

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I don't want it designed so most people can clear it. I want it designed so people like me can clear it in a reasonable time frame. I'm not some shit tier player who just wants things brought down to "my level". This is my warlock:

WoW Rankings - Raider.IO

Khane said:

What I'm saying is, fuck the cutting edge guilds. Who cares about them?

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Fuck the Olympics, who cares about world records?

Bondurant said:

Fuck the Olympics, who cares about world records?

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You cannot be serious... this is World of Warcraft. It honestly surprises me there are this many people here willing to defend this garbage.

Khane said:

I don't want it designed so most people can clear it. I want it designed so people like me can clear it in a reasonable time frame. I'm not some shit tier player who just wants things brought down to "my level". This is my warlock:

WoW Rankings - Raider.IO

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Yes, everyone wishes they were the cutoff point.

Bad news, Snowflake. If you can't clesr mythic then maybe you're not a mythic guild.

Ambiturner said:

Yes, everyone wishes they were the cutoff point.

Bad news, Snowflake. If you can't clesr mythic then maybe you're not a mythic guild.

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Uh what? I did clear Mythic and as it stands right now I AM the cutoff point. I think I should be well above the cutoff point. I spent an inordinate amount of time playing this game before I finally cancelled my subs last week. What are you even arguing here?

EDIT: I don't know why the fuck I'm arguing with a bunch of nerds who have never even cleared a Mythic raid.

Khane said:

I don't want it designed so most people can clear it. I want it designed so people like me can clear it in a reasonable time frame. I'm not some shit tier player who just wants things brought down to "my level". This is my warlock:

WoW Rankings - Raider.IO

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When you say people like you believe me I'm not thinking you're some shit tier player, I just think the very cutting edge Mythic shit shouldn't be something many should expect to clear. Like I said my old/current guild still has some holdovers from the glory days way back when, and some other competent to very good players...but it should never expect to clear Mythic in my opinion. Don't put in enough time, and as a whole, not good enough.

Khane said:

Uh what? I did clear Mythic and as it stands right now I AM the cutoff point. I think I should be well above the cutoff point. I spent an inordinate amount of time playing this game before I finally cancelled my subs last week. What are you even arguing here?

EDIT: I don't know why the fuck I'm arguing with a bunch of nerds who have never even cleared a Mythic raid.

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Fine, you should be the cutoff "in a reasonable amount of time"

You're talking to a bunch of nerds who don't feel like they have to be in the top tier of a video game and realize the 3 different modes were for people who had a different amount of dedication to the game.

So go ahead and autism out all you want, but don't be surprised when your "Fuck everyone above me and below me I'M WHAT MATTERS" attitude isn't as well received as it was in your head

Khane said:

EDIT: I don't know why the fuck I'm arguing with a bunch of nerds who have never even cleared a Mythic raid.

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My bad fam, haven't raided what I consider seriously since end of TBC. Did semi serious in Wrath, and came back right at the end of Legion. Our guild is fairly casual in play time, we got to 8/11 Mythic in Antorus only raiding 2 nights a week.

Haven't done the true Mythic grind, really. I just know that by and large, the roster isn't as good as the one we had way back when clearing Naxx 40, beating Muru pre nerf, etc. Even if we raided 4 or 5 nights I wouldn't have expected us to clear Mythic Antorus or Uldir. Get closer, surely, but the overall talent level isn't at that point anymore, and even the people who maybe used to be we don't give a fuck like that anymore. But we're probably better than most people running around. Just not "Mythic clear" level by any stretch imo.