Sieger
Trakanon Raider
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So it's funny because anyone who says things like "states where employment is At Will" know almost nothing about employment law. Employment at Will is the standard in the United States. I can go into much more depth if you want, but the only state that isn't At Will is Montana, and it's a common sign of lack of knowledge of employment law that "at will" employment needs to be considered on a state by state basis, it generally does not because 49 states representing some 99% of the country are At Will states. Even in Montana the minor procedural requirement established in statute for a Just Cause dismissal is so thin, that it functions almost identically to an At Will state.
And it is absolutely not a lie that bad employees work everywhere, including non-unionized work forces. I'm guessing maybe you've never worked, since you seem deeply ignorant of basic facts of work. Also just because a company can fire you at will, doesn't mean it will. Many companies have a procedural PIP process for dismissals for poor work quality, that usually take a few months at minimum to work themselves out. This is primarily to protect against legal liability but it's also a process control on middle managers as well.
Again, I question if you've experienced work. Many middle managers in the corporate world have tons of direct reports, some of whom work in different buildings, some of whom they go months without seeing. Those employees are very often only minimally managed. At lower order jobs like fast food and retail, managers often will only fire people if they're stealing or refusing to show up for work, under the assumption that you're sifting the dregs to get positions filled anyway so you can't really be that strict.
FWIW my Mom has been a higher up in State government for decades and fired plenty of people in her career. State government jobs are not at will, there are civil service protections and you have to go through a process to fire people. The thing is--there is a process. A ton of government managers are just lazy and don't want to go through it. One funny anecdote--my Mom had this angry Iranian programmer that worked for her, he was terrible at his job and frequently unprofessional. He would send emails in all caps and regularly scream at meetings. She fired him--it took like 12 months, multiple written warnings, what's called a "Grievan Hearing" because he asserted he was being discriminated against so a Public Employee Administrative Judge had to review his case. But the thing is my Mom dotted all her I's, crossed all her T's. This guy lost every thing he tried to do, and lost his job. (Something like 95% of the administrative law hearings are decided in the State's favor in my Mom's state.) I'm not at all denying such a process is not onerous and nonsensical, but to say you can't fire employees in those sort of jobs is simply not accurate. It just takes work, work many people are happy to ignore. With union jobs there is likewise a formalized dispute process for actually firing the person. While I've never been unionized, I've worked for companies in the oil and telecom industries that had unionized labor. We had plenty of those guys get fired. You just have to go through a process.
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