World of Warcraft: Current Year

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Foggy

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,306
4,893
Instead of fixing game design and what is essentially match making, they just want to ignore/punish the discontent.
It’s an issue in game design, not match making. Matchmaking is for pointless content like heroic dungeons and lfr. Players have control over group creation beyond that, including an in game score for mythic+ achievement. The player base is too toxic but the content incentivizes that behavior. For example, M+ keys going down a rank when you fail means people get really pissed when a group does poorly. They aren’t just losing their time, they are losing their ability to obtain a certain level of loot. It’s probably too late to clean up how the players interact and the content design will definitely prevent it.
 

Neranja

<Bronze Donator>
2,644
4,232
Players have control over group creation beyond that, including an in game score for mythic+ achievement.
I think what was meant with "matchmaking": something helping players decide on who to invite to their group for M+/raid. It was the players that came up with raider.io, precisely because there was a need to filter other players beyond GearScore, which was the system players came up before that.

I have a slight suspicion that the WoW devs came up with the convoluted gearing and borrowed power system to break GearScore, but it backfired in a spectacular way.
 

Neranja

<Bronze Donator>
2,644
4,232
Matchmake new and nice players together, then toxic players together.

End matches with a thumbs up/thumbs down for everyone.
If there is anything I've learned about nudging, it's that positive incentives work, but negative outcomes must be connected directly to the behavior in question. It's a bit like teaching your cat to not jump on the kitchen table: If you use a spray bottle 20 seconds after the cat jumped up, the cat won't make a causal connection between her own action and punishment.

I'm not saying WoW players are like cats. In fact, I think they are like goldfish, which have an even shorter attention span.
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
<Gold Donor>
31,344
23,652
I've never had trouble finding nice, competent people to play WoW with.

If you keep running into toxic assholes, that feels like one of those "“If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole” situations.
 
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Animosity

Silver Baronet of the Realm
7,119
6,027
Can confirm Ive met more shitbags in EQ than in WoW. Most the toxic fucks in WoW are when I used dungeon finder groups.
 

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Goonsquad Officer
6,166
14,496
It's a game. They should actually make a social credit score and place nice people with nice people and toxic people with toxic people. Make it transparent how it works.

Otherwise it's going to be tranny CMs and tranny programmed bots banning people they don't like.
I do like a turds play with turds option. satisfies everyone.
 

Juvarisx

Florida
3,956
4,197
They are essentially adding the FF14 moderation, its not really a bad thing, however Square has a large human team to review complaints. If this is all AI based its going to be a mess but there is something to be said about not having toxicity in game, FF14 feels like a joy to play because of it. Knowing Blizzard though they will fuck it up somehow
 

Warmuth

Molten Core Raider
877
520
FF is also boring and without consequence. People just don’t give a fuck because there’s no reason to, the process is brain dead. You can also run piss easy solo q dungeons in wow if you want. You can do the raid the same way.

I don’t see a problem with a random mythic raid finder for social credit farmers though. Have at it.
 
  • 1Picard
Reactions: 1 user

Daidraco

Avatar of War Slayer
10,296
10,692
They are essentially adding the FF14 moderation, its not really a bad thing, however Square has a large human team to review complaints. If this is all AI based its going to be a mess but there is something to be said about not having toxicity in game, FF14 feels like a joy to play because of it. Knowing Blizzard though they will fuck it up somehow
Blizzard is going to automate it in some capacity. So its really going to be a shit show before it starts to even remotely go in the direction FF14 is at. Which I agree, this is them trying to cater to the general audience that loves the "GG TY FOR PLAYING" at the end of every run.

The Mythic + scene is actively toxic. The only way around it in the game that is designed to be toxic is to make friends, or be in a guild. You know.. social, MMO, things. You're going to play with scrubs and retards, regardless. Its just, you can "hopefully" give a retard some pointers if theyre in your guild or you're friends with them and then benefit from those suggestions later. At the beginning of Shadowlands, we had a very active player that didnt know how to use beacon of light. Pretty fucking obvious how to use it, but I guess his brain was wired different. After suffering through a couple runs, he finally gave my advice a chance.. and wala, all our healing problems went the fk out of the window.

But this is off the beaten path - even if the toxicity disappeared tomorrow, the game still has some huge fundamental problems. So they got quite a ways to go.
 

Juvarisx

Florida
3,956
4,197
I guess im missing the social credit part of it, there is no mention of rewards for reporting abusive behavior just saying they are clamping down on it. I always felt there should be some reward for reporting bots (points off verified bans) would help classic but I am not seeing that here.

Look I've done wow mythic, wow M+ up to 20, piss easy wow content, then FF14 piss easy content, savage raids, even gotten 2 Ultimates down. Ive seen the most toxicity in world chat, the piss easy dungeons and low M+'s in WoW. I have no problem if people who sperg out after a blown M+6 get muted or suspended. I dont need the over niceness of FF14, rather just have people act like normal fucking people instead of fuck heads (yea im getting old whatever). I did appreciate real help in general chat when I started FF14 though.
 
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Reactions: 1 user

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Goonsquad Officer
6,166
14,496
you know, it's funny but i bet if they do this "play nice or else" policy, it will not extend to bots. the bot population will stay high because they don't say hurty feelsy
 
  • 1Worf
Reactions: 1 user

Warmuth

Molten Core Raider
877
520
So you just want to prevent people from saying things that hurt your feelings? You can put people on ignore.
 

Juvarisx

Florida
3,956
4,197
So you just want to prevent people from saying things that hurt your feelings? You can put people on ignore.

Look if you are posting on this forum, you have a thick skin by default, I could care less generally other then world chat being unusable. WoW has a toxicity problem partly from years of zero moderation and party because the game catered towards it. They are obviously looking at player feedback and deciding that FF14 had the right idea, player attitudes to MMo's by in large have changed since the EQ days and people have too many options to spend their time to deal with edgelords and teenagers sperging out in RDF or Raid Finder. This likely is part of a large shift in philosophy towards the game as a whole. You have faction merging, account wide everything, less of a focus on M+, etc. The try hards and high end content players will always group with guilds and friends or randoms they can shit talk over discord where moderation cant touch them. Having someone ask a question and being told to fuck their mom or kill themselves cause they died on a mechanic isn't a healthy game and I don't have a problem with them clamping down on it.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Net

Bronze Squire
2
1
Some amount of increased moderation is probably fine, but not until they've fixed the game design issues and know what they're actually working with. They've shown that they don't know or don't care about the mechanics that prompt people to be toxic, though.

Toxicity happens when people are trying to go fast or accomplish something, and others are stopping them. This happens in M+, but leveling dungeons are also fucking terrible. Either people aren't talking at all, or they're flaming and votekicking someone that's new or just trying to chill. They could try all sorts of things here, but they've done absolutely nothing. Why not add a separate "speedrun" queue and let the assholes self-select into it? Why not remove the timer from M+ and add a different axis of difficulty? Try something, see how it affects things.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

jayrebb

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
14,680
14,574
I have a slight suspicion that the WoW devs came up with the convoluted gearing and borrowed power system to break GearScore, but it backfired in a spectacular way.

It didn't just backfire. They went back on their word. They said no more titanforging period.

They added titanforging to raids in 9.1 with a borrowed power system. Borrowed power with titanforging style features. It benched some of the greatest raiders in the game for world first race. For the first time they had to sit out.

Since the expac was sold under a no-titanforge clause, that's straight up fraud. Nobody should buy another Blizzard product again based on that, but they will.
 

BoozeCube

The Wokest
<Prior Amod>
51,997
304,912
Nothing says good quality gaming like a sterile safe space environment. Nothing like living in a world with no flavor.
 
  • 3Like
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Neranja

<Bronze Donator>
2,644
4,232
Ive seen the most toxicity in world chat, the piss easy dungeons and low M+'s in WoW.
This is the "eternal bronze hell" I was talking about. I'm sure Mist doesn't encounter many toxic people in the +10 and above runs, but I've seen someone blow a fuse in a normal leveling dungeon because someone accidentally pulled an extra pack, and the votekick that followed didn't go through.

They added titanforging to raids in 9.1 with a borrowed power system. Borrowed power with titanforging style features. It benched some of the greatest raiders in the game for world first race. For the first time they had to sit out.

Since the expac was sold under a no-titanforge clause, that's straight up fraud. Nobody should buy another Blizzard product again based on that, but they will.
The fact that they thought of the 9.1 shards of domination sockets as "tier sets" made me realize that no one at Blizzard seems to be left to even know what the design concept behind tier sets was, and why people liked them in the first place.
 

Fucker

Log Wizard
12,895
29,438
Some amount of increased moderation is probably fine, but not until they've fixed the game design issues and know what they're actually working with. They've shown that they don't know or don't care about the mechanics that prompt people to be toxic, though.

Toxicity happens when people are trying to go fast or accomplish something, and others are stopping them. This happens in M+, but leveling dungeons are also fucking terrible. Either people aren't talking at all, or they're flaming and votekicking someone that's new or just trying to chill. They could try all sorts of things here, but they've done absolutely nothing. Why not add a separate "speedrun" queue and let the assholes self-select into it? Why not remove the timer from M+ and add a different axis of difficulty? Try something, see how it affects things.
Toxicity happens primarily because young adult males are essentially children who don't know how to have fun anymore.

I played one new pvp game, the servers just went live and it was everyone's first match. One guy was shitting himself because the team was doing poorly. Guy was having a crying fit over it. These leet gamers are everywhere now.
 
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