World of Warcraft: Current Year

Cybsled

Cybsled

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
17,420
13,928
Seananigans_sl said:
Just one of the many things that makes WoW less of a MMORPG and more of a mini-games lobby.
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I'm of the opinion that "mini-games" keep things interesting. I know there are a segment of people who like the same shit over and over. You can easily evidence this by looking at servers for CounterStrike:Source where they have literally had the same map on 24/7 rotation for like 8 years and people still play it constantly.

So while there are some people who love just playing Dust_2 forever or Starcraft ladder, there is a larger population that likes to mix it up with the equivalent of zombie escape, gun game, DOTA, tower defense, etc. Most people get sick of the same-old, same-old after awhile, even if they really loved the same-old for a long time. Mixing things up and creating new gameplay experiences is a way to help stave this off.
 
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Itzena_sl

shitlord
4,609
6
Qhue_sl said:
So the ability to spend Valor to upgrade gear goes away with 5.2. Interesting way of doing that, instead of segregating the new 5.2 items as flagged unupgradeable they just remove the NPC entirely.

This will certain lessen the grind for Valor, but I notice that I only barely meet the 480 ilevel requirement for the new LFR with my upgraded items. I'm guessing that this is being done to keep people running the 5.0 / 5.1 LFRs for awhile but I can see a point where a new level 90 is stuck unable to progress through LFR due to small populations running the earlier ones and no good mechanism to increase their ilevel to get to the next tier.
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They're adding new VP gear as well i.e. going back to how the gearing systemusedto work. Somewhere in Blizzard, someone is quietly being taken aside to a small room and being asked to explain how their 'wonderful' idea of gear upgrading turned out to be such an omnishambles.
 
Cybsled

Cybsled

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
17,420
13,928
There are only so many valor items to buy. There should be enough space between now and 5.2 where people run out of stuff to spend valor on besides upgrading their gear, which shouldn't make a 480 ilvl too hard to reach.
 
Gavinmad

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
44,440
53,914
Cybsled_sl said:
I do agree that having to get revered with Golden Lotus just to start grinding the other stuff (August Celestial especially, where they dumped all the tradeskill shit), was idiotic. Makes it very alt unfriendly. Now I have to level my tailoring mule to 90 then rep grind with it ;/
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Yeah, this was probably the biggest reason why I didn't even play a full month when I bought MoP. I had like 7 85s in Cata, covering every tradeskill, and between the retarded rep grinding and the fact that the primary tradeskill component is now a BoP world drop, they royally fucked tradeskill alts.
 
spronk

spronk

FPS noob
23,823
29,071
Its only tailoring/enchanting thats locked behind rep I believe. Inscription and JC are both daily discoveries. BS and Leatherworking are all behind spirit of harmony. Alchemy was trivial, just grind out a bunch of pots/xmutes. But yeah they should have been BOA patterns, at least with 5.1.

The new 5.2 valor gear is tied to rep though I think, either/or the new dailies and new raid? If they remove the upgrade guy I don't see why anyone would run 5 mans at all, you get 463 gear whereas PVP grinding will get you a full set of 476 (this seasons malevolent) gear, and you'd still need some more stuff to hit 480. Hopefully they just upgrade all the 5 man dungeon gear to 476 blues too, but I doubt it. It will definitely suck for new 90s coming into 5.2, you won't have a good path to the new LFR it seems.
 
Valishar

Valishar

Molten Core Raider
766
424
Ever since I got back their decision to lock rep with dailies alone has bugged the hell out of me. I've never really liked them all that much since BC, tbh.
 
Sinzar

Sinzar

Trakanon Raider
3,149
269
Itzena_sl said:
They're adding new VP gear as well i.e. going back to how the gearing systemusedto work. Somewhere in Blizzard, someone is quietly being taken aside to a small room and being asked to explain how their 'wonderful' idea of gear upgrading turned out to be such an omnishambles.
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What's wrong with the upgrade system? I'm actually really surprised it's going away because I thought it was one of their best ideas in a while. For a player like myself who gets most of their gear from normal+ raiding, valor points very quickly became completely useless. With this system, I have an actual reason to cap valor every week, which in turn keeps fully geared players in the random dungeon system, which makes it better and shorter queues for everyone doing dungeons.

The upgrade system also lets you completely ignore the reputation grinds that most everyone in this thread is complaining about. With your limited valor income you can spend 1500-2250 valor to buy a iLvl 489 epic item, which also requires grinding out the reputation to unlock it. With the upgrade system, you can spend 1500 valor to upgrade a LFR piece to 491 iLvl, which is superior to reputation items, and does not require any kind of rep grinds.

Before you make the argument that it's better to upgrade a rep item to end up with an ultimately higher item, consider your weekly valor limit. To upgrade 16 slots of LFR gear, that would take 24,000 valor points, or 6 months worth. I can promise you 5.2, with a new LFR will be out before that happens. Therefore, no one should ever be spending their limited valor on buying reputation items, and should be utilizing the upgrade system on their gear, whether it's from LFR, normals, or heroics. 5.1 made rep grinding completely obsolete from a gearing up perspective (still need reps for vanity items, tradeskills, or achievements).

Long story short, them removing the very well designed upgrade system makes me /boggle.
 
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Azziane_sl

shitlord
541
1
Sinzar_sl said:
What's wrong with the upgrade system? I'm actually really surprised it's going away because I thought it was one of their best ideas in a while. For a player like myself who gets most of their gear from normal+ raiding, valor points very quickly became completely useless. With this system, I have an actual reason to cap valor every week, which in turn keeps fully geared players in the random dungeon system, which makes it better and shorter queues for everyone doing dungeons.

The upgrade system also lets you completely ignore the reputation grinds that most everyone in this thread is complaining about. With your limited valor income you can spend 1500-2250 valor to buy a iLvl 489 epic item, which also requires grinding out the reputation to unlock it. With the upgrade system, you can spend 1500 valor to upgrade a LFR piece to 491 iLvl, which is superior to reputation items, and does not require any kind of rep grinds.

Before you make the argument that it's better to upgrade a rep item to end up with an ultimately higher item, consider your weekly valor limit. To upgrade 16 slots of LFR gear, that would take 24,000 valor points, or 6 months worth. I can promise you 5.2, with a new LFR will be out before that happens. Therefore, no one should ever be spending their limited valor on buying reputation items, and should be utilizing the upgrade system on their gear, whether it's from LFR, normals, or heroics. 5.1 made rep grinding completely obsolete from a gearing up perspective (still need reps for vanity items, tradeskills, or achievements).

Long story short, them removing the very well designed upgrade system makes me /boggle.
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Anything that imposes a hard limit on how much gear I can get on a per day basis is terrible imo. The valor grind is limited to X points a day I assume? I don't see how that's any better. I don't mind grinding too much but I do mind being told I can't even grind as much as I want. I have to grind a specific amount of time?

I would still much rather have more dungeons/raids with different difficulties and rewards. I'd pay full price for an expansion that lets me gear up by doing nothing but 5-mans from level 85 to 90. I also kinda think 5-mans can be just as challenging as 10 or 25 raids and see no reason why there cannot be a more beyond heroic to farm the best gear. It would kinda shit on any large group of people that have been dedicating their time and effort into keeping their guild running. But I am not in one so I don't care about them much.

Also fuck questing unless it's group content. That's just another rep grind for XP. I don't mind it nearly as much because at least I get to choose how much time I sink into the grind and get rewards equivalent to that effort.
 
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Azziane_sl

shitlord
541
1
Can someone tell me what a gear grind to get to the level required by the first 10 man looks like? Once I hit 90 can I grind dungeons and move onto heroics? Can I then grind heroics to gear up for raids?

Or is the point (forget what they are - justice points maybe?) reward per dungeon limited per day as well?
 
Sinzar

Sinzar

Trakanon Raider
3,149
269
Obtenor_sl said:
wtf is wrong with the lack of trinkets?? The whole rep grind to get ONE Trinket 464+ is fucking retarded.
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There's 2 trinkets available from reputation. Here's a list of all of the reputation purchased epic trinkets:
http://www.wowhead.com/items?filter=...:3;crv=0:0#0+2

One from Shado-Pan, and one from Shieldwall or Dominance, depending on your faction.

You can also upgrade a LFR trinket, of which there are also 2 per spec:
http://www.wowhead.com/items?filter=...:3;crv=0:0#0+2
 
Sinzar

Sinzar

Trakanon Raider
3,149
269
Azziane_sl said:
Can someone tell me what a gear grind to get to the level required by the first 10 man looks like? Once I hit 90 can I grind dungeons and move onto heroics? Can I then grind heroics to gear up for raids?

Or is the point (forget what they are - justice points maybe?) reward per dungeon limited per day as well?
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As soon as you hit level 90, do a Sha of Anger pug. They happen about every 15 minutes Tuesday and Wednesday, and every 30-60 minutes the rest of the week. Killing him gives you a 100% drop chance quest item, which you turn in for epic 476 boots. You can also buy or craft a bunch of BoE epic items, and cheat the system. Obtain them somehow, but just keep them in your bags BOE and don't equip them. It still counts to your iLvl. With enough of those, you can quality for MSV LFR. Once you win a few MSV LFR pieces, you can re-sell those BOE epics you were using to cheat iLvl.

Qualifying for HOF LFR is harder. For that you do need to gear up in heroics, and probably upgraded a few heroic blues with justice points for even more iLvl, as well as have an epic or two from MSV LFR. One trick is if you have the archeology BOA gear like the spear, offhand, or trinket, you can upgrade those to 471 iLvl with justice points, and mail them to your newest character and boost your iLvl through that as well.

To answer your question as to the limit though, technically no, you can grind dungeons all day long and get enough justice points (no cap on them) to upgrade all the dungeon blues to 471, which is good enough for the highest LFR. That's not the most efficient use of your time though
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errr_sl

shitlord
11
0
Gavinrad_sl said:
Yeah, this was probably the biggest reason why I didn't even play a full month when I bought MoP. I had like 7 85s in Cata, covering every tradeskill, and between the retarded rep grinding and the fact that the primary tradeskill component is now a BoP world drop, they royally fucked tradeskill alts.
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so instead of having to actually interact with people in a so-called mmorpg you'd rather just be able to do everything from your own characters.

that's the problem with this game and has been for a long time across just about all areas within.
 
Cybsled

Cybsled

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
17,420
13,928
errr_sl said:
so instead of having to actually interact with people in a so-called mmorpg you'd rather just be able to do everything from your own characters.

that's the problem with this game and has been for a long time across just about all areas within.
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If you by interact you mean "pay a shitload of gold to", then yes, I'd rather do that stuff with my own characters.
 
Saladus

Saladus

Bronze Knight of the Realm
271
11
His purpose for having the alts was for making gold on the AH, as having as many trade skills as possible is very profitable. It's not like he's being a shut-in trying to avoid people. I have the same issue, Cata I had about 6 trade skills covered about was rolling in the gold. This expansion the gated the recipes behind rep grinds for this very reason.
 
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Obtenor_sl

shitlord
483
0
Sinzar_sl said:
There's 2 trinkets available from reputation. Here's a list of all of the reputation purchased epic trinkets:
http://www.wowhead.com/items?filter=...:3;crv=0:0#0+2

One from Shado-Pan, and one from Shieldwall or Dominance, depending on your faction.

You can also upgrade a LFR trinket, of which there are also 2 per spec:
http://www.wowhead.com/items?filter=...:3;crv=0:0#0+2
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I got the shield one, now working in the Shado Pan one, but for Shado Pan you need to do Golden Lotus first, so there, more rep grind. Also, just because there are TWO trinkets and some small options in LFR is more in line with what I'm saying; at least every drop everywhere has a chance to drop some kind of armor (and they usually do) but trinkets? fuck that shit

LFR drop rates suck, I mean, I hardly get actual "Tier" loot, have never seen Trinkets drop.

They shouln't take into account trinkets for iLevel.
 
Gavinmad

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
44,440
53,914
Saladus_sl said:
His purpose for having the alts was for making gold on the AH, as having as many trade skills as possible is very profitable. It's not like he's being a shut-in trying to avoid people. I have the same issue, Cata I had about 6 trade skills covered about was rolling in the gold. This expansion the gated the recipes behind rep grinds for this very reason.
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This. I liked having my own tradeskill chain. For example, during Cata I would buy ~10k gold worth of elementium ore at the time. Smelt some of it for blacksmithing, prospect the majority of it. Sell certain blue quality cuts, mostly reds, some purples, oranges, and greens. Xmute most of the carnelians into rubies, xmute the rest into metagems, which i would sell the various dps cuts of. Craft the rest of the green quality gems into jewelry, put the good rares on the AH, disenchant everything else.

errr_sl said:
so instead of having to actually interact with people in a so-called mmorpg you'd rather just be able to do everything from your own characters.

that's the problem with this game and has been for a long time across just about all areas within.
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Had absolutely nothing to do with not wanting to interact with people you stupidfuck.
 
Ao-

Ao-

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
<Bronze Donator>
7,889
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errr_sl said:
so instead of having to actually interact with people in a so-called mmorpg you'd rather just be able to do everything from your own characters.

that's the problem with this game and has been for a long time across just about all areas within.
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You are stupid.
It forces the craftsman to go out and farm to provide their service to other people (rather than letting one person gather all their own mats).
It's stupid, just like using "Equipment Upgrades" as content in the off-patches (5.1, 5.3, 5.5, etc).
It's stupid, just like removing rep tabards.
It's stupid, just like attaching gear upgrades to rep.
 
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